An interesting read on APR's and Elk

[coach]

More to think about: http://www.angelfire.com/bc/huntingalert/page10.html

[knockturnal]

Did i get you thinking?? Interesting articles for sure. Yet we still have APRs all over BC despite all of the evidence that it hurts the herds.

[limit time]

I fear, in the end... The Outfitters will have there way...

[Everett]

It spells out in simple English who the Elk herds biggest enemy's are Trophy Hunters and Guide Outfitters.

[Ltbullken]

Valerius Giest, maybe the premier wildilfe biologist in North America, believes we should harvest runts and young animals instead of the dominant breeder bucks/bulls. Allowing the adults to live and taking immatures only increases the health of the population he argues. I don't think APR's have any effect on hunting densities in BC based on what I've seen. Still lots of hunters out there and sometimes stupid numbers of hunters - can't pass on roads as too many watching the same doe in the friggin' meadow! I hate to think of the artillery barrage that would happen if a buck stepped out.

[coach]

Did i get you thinking?? Interesting articles for sure. Yet we still have APRs all over BC despite all of the evidence that it hurts the herds.

Regulation changes start at your local club level and we have a couple generations of hunters who still believe APR's are going to make more animals. Perhaps forums like HBC will help drive positive change through the sharing of scientific knowledge.

[604redneck]

Any info thats not 20 years+ old?

[604redneck]

i personally think that the season needs to be shortened and i am against apr's as well even as a guide(I'm a bc resident hunter first and foremost) I want changes as much as any other bc hunter that cares about ungulate pops.

[Everett]

i personally think that the season needs to be shortened and i am against apr's as well even as a guide(I'm a bc resident hunter first and foremost) I want changes as much as any other bc hunter that cares about ungulate pops.

Why would you want the season shortened we are over run with Elk in the EK we could tack a couple extra weeks on and go any bull an still have plenty of Elk.

[Sitkaspruce]

i personally think that the season needs to be shortened and i am against apr's as well even as a guide(I'm a bc resident hunter first and foremost) I want changes as much as any other bc hunter that cares about ungulate pops.

Still want to manage hunters???

None of managing hunter regulations will make more animals, just turns more hunters away.

Still do not see how shorter seasons, APR or even LEH makes more animals.

And animals don't change very much in 20 years, so the study is still valid.

Cheers

SS

[.300WSMImpact!]

I do think hunters are more responsible now, and less elk are shot and left these day then were 20 years ago

[aggiehunter]

maybe some ideas start at the club level but the bio's have the say...clubs should get back to doing what clubs should be doing...habitat enhancement.

[.300WSMImpact!]

maybe some ideas start at the club level but the bio's have the say...clubs should get back to doing what clubs should be doing...habitat enhancement.

adding an alternate voice to guide outfits and building resident hunting opportunity is a good job for the clubs too

[604redneck]

Still want to manage hunters???

None of managing hunter regulations will make more animals, just turns more hunters away.

Still do not see how shorter seasons, APR or even LEH makes more animals.

And animals don't change very much in 20 years, so the study is still valid.

Cheers

SS
Animals may not change much in 20 years but the human population and hunter access sure does which in the end will make a difference in the population.
And I do personally think if they shortened the season to exclude the rut the populations would increase. If i'm wrong i would love to see a study on it.

[604redneck]

Why would you want the season shortened we are over run with Elk in the EK we could tack a couple extra weeks on and go any bull an still have plenty of Elk.
My comment was more towards mule deer populations tbh but i do think each species and region is goin to need individual management

[hunter1947]

It spells out in simple English who the Elk herds biggest enemy's are Trophy Hunters and Guide Outfitters.

X two I agree Everett and yes I do agree that the guide outfitters set the rules in the regs lets face it aliens don't want to shoot a small antlered bulls mule deer they target the trophy animals as for the selective hunters ,,,, lots of opinions from the biologists on there thoughts..

[hunter1947]

Some say we are over run by high elk numbers in the EK if so why does not the management open up a GOS for 3 points or better for a few years like it was back about 15 years ago ??? my thoughts are then the big herd bulls won't be targeted as hard this way it would put more elk numbers into our freezers and allow to free up more habitat for the elk and others..

[Everett]

Some say we are over run by high elk numbers in the EK if so why does not the management open up a GOS for 3 points or better for a few years like it was back about 15 years ago ??? my thoughts are then the big herd bulls won't be targeted as hard this way it would put more elk numbers into our freezers and allow to free up more habitat for the elk and others..

I am with you Wayne I would love to shoot a young tender 3 point instead of a tough old 6 point. There is only so many 6 point antlers anyone needs. I didn't even keep them this year gave the whole head to a buddy.

[limit time]

Animals may not change much in 20 years but the human population and hunter access sure does which in the end will make a difference in the population.
And I do personally think if they shortened the season to exclude the rut the populations would increase. If i'm wrong i would love to see a study on it.
why not find info to prove your right? Also, population may be going up, but the number of resident hunters is going down.

[coach]

the number of resident hunters is going down.

Actually, after many years of decline, the number of resident hunters has increased over the last few years.

[limit time]

Actually, after many years of decline, the number of resident hunters has increased over the last few years.
My bad... But, good to know.

[GoatGuy]

The reason there isn't a 3 pts season in the EK is because the people who show up to meetings don't want it. The 6 pts season is political. It was instituted in the late 90s as an interim RECOVERY SEASON - the elk bounced back, but the season didn't change because the vocal people didn't want it.

It is not because of conservation.

[604redneck]

why not find info to prove your right? Also, population may be going up, but the number of resident hunters is going down.
what info would you like? that the population has increased? that there were approx. 100,000 hunting licenses sold? That access is getting farther and farther into untouched areas? that letting the animals get busy without having to worry about being killed will increase poulations? as for the bull elk i think a 3 point season is great in areas with high bull to cow ratios or excessive numbers which can support it. however if you think a younger 3, 4 or 5 point bull breeding cows is gonna produce less calves or smaller calves you are mistaken, if a bull has gotten good genetics from its mother and father and breeds a cow with good genetics you will end up with a cow or bull calf/calves carrying those genetics.

[604redneck]

I really dont see why we cant all just agree that its the "certain ethnic group" and wolves.

[Sitkaspruce]

Animals may not change much in 20 years but the human population and hunter access sure does which in the end will make a difference in the population.
And I do personally think if they shortened the season to exclude the rut the populations would increase. If i'm wrong i would love to see a study on it.

So lets concentrate all the hunters in to a shorter time period to hunt the same animals.....next we will have access control that will concentrate those hunters into an even smaller area, so shorter seasons and smaller area, sounds like reg 6 any bull moose season. Gong show to say the least. Ask your clients what they think of short seasons, point restrictions and access and how they like to hunt that type of season. I know most of who I guided we surprised at our liberal seasons, bag limits and buying OTC tags to hunt most species. I think most hunters in BC have no idea how lucky we are with what we have to hunt here in BC.

Everyone is screaming to stop the any buck season (not sure if you are one of them), as they say that it is detrimental to MD populations, yet we still get preg does and good fawn recruitment every spring. Stockpiling bucks by not hunting them in the rut will do nothing for more deer, does ares till getting pregnent and fawns are hitting the ground every year. The probelms are not enough habitat to help carry those deer over in the winter/spring, high pred numbers and bad winters, two we can control, one can be really tough on deer, especially when we stockpile them.

Cheers

SS

[604redneck]

To be honest I don't complain about the lack of animals or being able to find them. I also don't complain about too many animals. The any buck season is great I took 2 new hunters this year 1 shot his first ever deer(2pt mule deer) the other his first whitetail a small 3x2. Both hunts I had 1 day with the hunters. As for guiding I think it's a big part of bc is besides these clients are hunting areas would otherwise go unhunted.

[limit time]

[QUOTE=604redneck;1444121]To be honest I don't complain about the lack of animals or being able to find them. I also don't complain about too many animals. The any buck season is great I took 2 new hunters this year 1 shot his first ever deer(2pt mule deer) the other his first whitetail a small 3x2. Both hunts I had 1 day with the hunters. As for guiding I think it's a big part of bc is besides these clients are hunting areas would otherwise go unhunted.[/

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