Urban Bowhunting

[Jerry Potts]

Several cities in the US have allowed urban bow hunting for deer under certain conditions. It is allowed from tree stands of a minimum height. That way, any missed shots will only hit the ground, with no chance of them going any further, into someone else's yard, etc. I think with those conditions, such urban bow hunting can be done very safely, anywhere.
So lets start promoting the idea.

[adriaticum]

Certainly a good idea.

[goatdancer]

How do you deal with the critters that run thru back yards with arrows sticking out of them?

[kootenaycarver]

This idea would do nothing but give Bowhunting a lot of very negative feedback. A very bad idea, IMHO

[Ambush]

It's a very successful program in many eastern states. It's usually administered by a local club and hunters are authorized only after meeting certain criteria.

No free-for-all's or yahoos. Just responsible hunters.

[coach]

It's a very successful program in many eastern states. It's usually administered by a local club and hunters are authorized only after meeting certain criteria.

No free-for-all's or yahoos. Just responsible hunters.

A good point and a worthwhile discussion. There are certainly a high number of urban deer running around the local communities here in the Okanagan, causing all kinds of animal/human conflict. Unfortunately many urban areas around BC also have their share of yahoos running around with bows and crossbows. The public have a pretty tough time differentiating between the goofballs and the authorized ethical hunters. The media already labels "poachers" as "hunters" on a regular basis. Even if safety is of zero concern, the most experienced of bow hunters make poor shots on occasion. Are we as a hunting community willing to have those mistakes end up in animals walking around town with arrows sticking out of them or crawling into an anti hunters backyard to bleed out?

[pmj]

In the Metro area cities are systematically passing bylaws to close down hunting. It is just a battle to keep hunting opportunities open with out trying to get them to repeal anti hunting bylaws.

[J_T]

We considered a bow season (and shotgun) for the Kimberley deer reduction program. As Gov considered the option, we stepped up as hunters with the most to loose. Our image. As we went through the process of managing the risk, it turned well away from being a hunt as most hunters would want. What time of day can you hunt? (during a time when kids are walking to school?) What methods can be used to hunt? (Shotgun, bow, treestand?) What areas within a community can be hunted? How do we/they communicate this to hunters?

Eventually we realized we were talking about something that was culturally quite foreign. What hunter would want to hunt in a community and under the watchful eye of everyone when they can go out and hunt crown land under the peace and quiet of their own ethic. It works in the south, because it always has. It works because Gov stands behind the activity. Our concern was in BC, Gov would hang the hunter out to dry.

We consulted the hunting community and realized with a 2 tag bag limit, most people wouldn't want to use up a tag. Gov do not consider municipal deer as a part of the Crown resource, so this led us to propose a specialized 'municipal' tag.

Lots of things to consider. What we eventually concluded was a deer management program, education to people with attractants (gardens/shrubs), a cull of existing deer and enhanced (low impact) hunting in the interface areas, just slightly removed from the community. Haven't seen the enhanced hunting opportunities in the interface areas.

[TheProvider]

Agree 100% with J_T

[Xenomorph]

It's a very successful program in many eastern states. It's usually administered by a local club and hunters are authorized only after meeting certain criteria.

No free-for-all's or yahoos. Just responsible hunters.

From my point of view, especially in places like Vancouver Island - where I've lived and deer is becoming an issue - I'd stand behind it 100%. I also stand behind the self regulated (hunters' association) who gets to exercise those "municipal" tags and who doesn't. My only concern is the more bureaucracy involved, the more of the "real hunters" just not wanting to deal with the hassle and headache. Also, as many mentioned, local governments and people would rather run and hug the 600lbs black bear that broke into my backyard and could have taken my pets and kids away ...rather than allow me to make sausage out of it.





We considered a bow season (and shotgun) for the Kimberley deer reduction program. As Gov considered the option, we stepped up as hunters with the most to loose. Our image. As we went through the process of managing the risk, it turned well away from being a hunt as most hunters would want. What time of day can you hunt? (during a time when kids are walking to school?) What methods can be used to hunt? (Shotgun, bow, treestand?) What areas within a community can be hunted? How do we/they communicate this to hunters?

Eventually we realized we were talking about something that was culturally quite foreign. What hunter would want to hunt in a community and under the watchful eye of everyone when they can go out and hunt crown land under the peace and quiet of their own ethic. It works in the south, because it always has. It works because Gov stands behind the activity. Our concern was in BC, Gov would hang the hunter out to dry.

We consulted the hunting community and realized with a 2 tag bag limit, most people wouldn't want to use up a tag. Gov do not consider municipal deer as a part of the Crown resource, so this led us to propose a specialized 'municipal' tag.

Lots of things to consider. What we eventually concluded was a deer management program, education to people with attractants (gardens/shrubs), a cull of existing deer and enhanced (low impact) hunting in the interface areas, just slightly removed from the community. Haven't seen the enhanced hunting opportunities in the interface areas.


Did you guys do any talks with more hunting mindful city counselors or have there been any attempts from the administrative hunting association board to touch base or further such discussions? Let's face it, if our activity is to remain intact and we to enjoy a humane and consistent (regulatory as well as each hunter's individual actions) the hunters' association has to have some sort of lobbying efforts and those city bylaws have to be built and signed with the intent and purpose of mindful people. Hunters have to be taken 1 by 1 and not dumped into a cauldron of one bad apple makes all the jam rotten.

[markt308]

Interesting idea. personally I would not be interested in cutting my tag on an urban deer that may not even know it's being hunted. But maybe that is the idea? To put some pressure on these urban animals?

[IslandBC]

Maybe there will be an Urban LEH for youbou Elk

[Spy]

Something like this.

http://www.history.com/shows/chasing-tail

[Geo.338]

While on the surface it sounds like a good idea and opportunity to harvest some of the hog bucks that never leave the sanctity of their respective

communities at the end of the day I see more harm than good coming of it . Our neighbours to the south have more of a stomach for the pastime than us to the north .

We would all be painted with the same blood red brush as bloodthirsty barbarians as bowhunting is not for every one . Many try it in their lives and do not

adopt it as another means to get out and enjoy the activity . We can all remember a time or two on local news and in the paper where a poorly shot deer walks

around the neighbourhood with an arrow hanging out of a part of it's anatomy that it should not be . This looks bad for all concerned .

While myself would like to participate , I would abstain for the better good of the hunters reputation and not give the antis any more ammo for their

case against hunters and hunting in general .

[Kudu]

Perhaps everyone is over thinking this whole thing!

Is this not the golden opportunity, to show the antis that hunters are not just mindless killers. Using the working model from our neighbours (Yanks), are the uber ethical - halo wearing, pokey stick shooters - really not capable of stringing together a model to satisfy even the most sceptical treehugger out there?

Should this whole urban hunting / deer management problem simply get handed over to private enterprise, who don't seem to trip them selves up with the mountain of baggage they they drag around with themselves?

Just asking?

[calvin L]

One of problems is that most of Canada would be call the cops if they saw a person with a weapon even with in proper area , timing of the hunt . Most Canadians are uncomfortable with any style of weapon now unless it is a timhortans cup . It is to bad ! Education is key here and yes we as hunters/shooters need to every thing we can to educate the general public . I have hunted in a urban area with some success . However I would not want to knock on a door and ask if I could recover my deer out of the pool .

[Ambush]

This will be another lost opportunity for hunters to educate the non-hunters in our communities. By not going public and becoming part of "normal", every day society, we further relegate ourselves into obscurity. You will never satisfy or convert the small percentage of rabid anti-hunters; ever!

But what we can do is show non-hunters that we are responsible, ethical neighbors that can not only provide a service, save tax dollars, we can do it with less trauma than the other solutions being tried. Very few people object to a steak, chicken or salmon on their plate, BUT they would certainly not want to kill it themselves. We can convince regular citizens that killing deer is really no different and perfectly acceptable. They wouldn't pull the trigger themselves, but would be fine with you doing it, in a controlled, civilized fashion. You can rant on them all you want about being hypocrites and having someone else do their dirty work for them, but it's the reality. Nobody likes to see an animal suffering, no matter how short the duration and if you do, you're not the type of person anyone wants representing them.

In most US urban deer hunting, hunters are only allowed to shoot does and in many cases they have "earn a buck" programs. So many does harvested before being issued a buck tag. That should satisfy the "anti trophy hunt" argument. So much talk, here on HBC, about most of us being in the hunt just for the meat.
Well, you wouldn't get a higher percentage return on your hunting dollar investment than a hunt that you could do five minutes from your home. Little driving, don't need to fire up the gas-hog 4X4, no camper, quad, camo or other expensive gear.

In one small town in the eastern states, a man spent two years convincing municipal authorities to allow him to reduce the deer population, using archery gear. He killed over a hundred deer in the first year, without incident and no cost to the local taxpayer. Needless to say his "work" is now just part of the local government plan. And the locals, except for the few zealots, are happy with the program even though they would not pull the trigger themselves. And they have very strong, well funded anti groups heading to court at every turn. But common sense usually prevails.

Hunters have to claim their rightful, legitimate place in managing our [semi]wild resources and become just another common sight to residents. Joe heading out with his bow shouldn't raise more concern than Coach loading up his golf clubs.

And the argument that a deer running around with an arrow hanging out of it's body doesn't wash with me either. You could have an incident. It may get some play. But that is always short lived like any other "news' story. Anti sites will play the same old ones over and over again until they find a new one, but very few normal citizens seek out or come across those sites. And, like murders, rapes and beatings, the big stations play it up for one or two days and then it's gone from memory. We move on quickly.

Seize the moment hunters. Use it or loose it!! Being secretive and passive has proven to be an abject failure. Take a lesson from some of the other special interest groups. If you want something in today's world, even if it is yours to start with, you can't just ask for it, you have to demand it, loud and long.
Look at Pacific Wild. Who would have thought that one misguided man could effectively shut out so many hunters and close down such a huge chunk of publicly owned [yours] real estate.

Sadly, we to fiddle while Rome burns.

[nx2001]

Hunters have to claim their rightful, legitimate place in managing our [semi]wild resources and become just another common sight to residents. Joe heading out with his bow shouldn't raise more concern than Coach loading up his golf clubs.



Learned this first hand when I was loading up my SUV for a weekend hunt and had to do several runs of equipment loading from my condo unit to the parking garage. The neighbours all had pretty concerned uncomfortable looking faces during the short wait and ride on the elevator. Granted this was when I was living in the heart of Richmond but I learned my lesson to only load up in the middle of the night or leave my stuff with my folks living in Delta, where there are several trucks/SUV with BCWF stickers on the same street.

[russm]

Spike tv had a show on about this for 1 season, it was guys hunting from tree stands in peoples yards in upstate New York with super expensive houses all around, I'm guessing someone didn't approve of the show since it didn't last very long. I'd do it if it was legal.

[Spy]

Spike tv had a show on about this for 1 season, it was guys hunting from tree stands in peoples yards in upstate New York with super expensive houses all around, I'm guessing someone didn't approve of the show since it didn't last very long. I'd do it if it was legal.

Post 13, program was called Chasingtail I provided a link. You will have to do a search for the episodes, some of them were pretty funny. Like the one where a deer died in someones pool, holy you should have heard the house owner freaking out LOl.

[J_T]

Please refer back to post #8. I don't disagree. This would be an interesting opportunity to pursue. Which is exactly what we did for Kimberley and Cranbrook.

It comes down to managing risk. This is a high risk proposal, and I/we were not convinced that municipalities, hunters and the Provincial Government would be able to manage the risk sufficiently and have something left that might be referred to as a hunt.

We did not come to this conclusion lightly for Kimberley. It was a lot of work.

For now, I'm fine with culling the in town deer, and let's look to create more opportunity on the outskirts of towns.

It's always easy to make comment on here, but when you are in the trenches, working collaboratively it is a long, arduous and difficult process.

[Mikey Rafiki]

Thanks for the work J_T and others that have been helping to represent the hunters and outdoor enthusiasts.

It's hard enough to get politicians to make decisions on taxes and spending never mind a controversial issue like this.

Unfortunately for Cranbrook and Kimberley, most of the area outside of town is private land, so it's difficult to designate any special hunting zones in the interface areas. The public land that is there is riddled with recreation trails, so even if you are fully within your rights to hunt it's awkward to sit under a tree with a rifle while a person walks by with their dog or a bunch of mountain bikers come flying by.

[OOBuck]

Please refer back to post #8. I don't disagree. This would be an interesting opportunity to pursue. Which is exactly what we did for Kimberley and Cranbrook.

It comes down to managing risk. This is a high risk proposal, and I/we were not convinced that municipalities, hunters and the Provincial Government would be able to manage the risk sufficiently and have something left that might be referred to as a hunt.

We did not come to this conclusion lightly for Kimberley. It was a lot of work.

For now, I'm fine with culling the in town deer, and let's look to create more opportunity on the outskirts of towns.

It's always easy to make comment on here, but when you are in the trenches, working collaboratively it is a long, arduous and difficult process.


I have a hard time understanding why in all places like Kimberly culling deer is a problem...

From a quick over view of Google earth I see MANY location where it should be done!!! Sound like theres to many granolas on council!!

Maybe you need me up there for a few weeks Jim?

[J_T]

I have a hard time understanding why in all places like Kimberly culling deer is a problem...

From a quick over view of Google earth I see MANY location where it should be done!!! Sound like theres to many granolas on council!!

Maybe you need me up there for a few weeks Jim?
Well, as long as you focus on hunting Kimberley and not my honey holes, come on up. You could wind up in a cage though. Just like the enviros from Invermere that tried to destroy the cages.

Just to be clear, it wasn't really municipal council that put a thumbs down on this. I don't really think hunter's wanted to risk the image either. We put together a proposal and then we consulted with the hunting community to see what sort of uptake there might be. For the most part, as I said in post #8, guys didn't want to sacrifice a tag in that environment. We did see it as a good hunt for the mobility challenged hunter. Additionally, we did not feel we had successfully secured Prov Gov support to defend the actions of a hunter if something went wrong.

[OOBuck]

Well, as long as you focus on hunting Kimberley and not my honey holes, come on up. You could wind up in a cage though. Just like the enviros from Invermere that tried to destroy the cages.

Just to be clear, it wasn't really municipal council that put a thumbs down on this. I don't really think hunter's wanted to risk the image either. We put together a proposal and then we consulted with the hunting community to see what sort of uptake there might be. For the most part, as I said in post #8, guys didn't want to sacrifice a tag in that environment. We did see it as a good hunt for the mobility challenged hunter. Additionally, we did not feel we had successfully secured Prov Gov support to defend the actions of a hunter if something went wrong.

Out of sight out of mind. Provincial support is easier than you might think.

[Ambush]

Just to be clear, it wasn't really municipal council that put a thumbs down on this. I don't really think hunter's wanted to risk the image either. We put together a proposal and then we consulted with the hunting community to see what sort of uptake there might be....For the most part, as I said in post #8, guys didn't want to sacrifice a tag in that environment.

I will likely get chewed on for this comment, but: I believe a lot of hunters won't support it because they feel that someone else may have opportunity that they won't ie. bow hunts when they don't bow hunt. "Dog in the Manger" and they can pin it on saving hunting's image.

These should be supplemental tags, issued by the municipality and outside the provincial limit. The precedent is there already with the QCI tags.

A local Club could be responsible for seeing that the tags are issued to tested and competent hunters. There are clubs in the US that will gladly offer advice on the mechanics of the operation. It's wide spread and successful.

[ThinAir]

I will likely get chewed on for this comment, but: I believe a lot of hunters won't support it because they feel that someone else may have opportunity that they won't ie. bow hunts when they don't bow hunt. "Dog in the Manger" and they can pin it on saving hunting's image.

These should be supplemental tags, issued by the municipality and outside the provincial limit. The precedent is there already with the QCI tags.

A local Club could be responsible for seeing that the tags are issued to tested and competent hunters. There are clubs in the US that will gladly offer advice on the mechanics of the operation. It's wide spread and successful.


I agree 100%.

[J_T]

I will likely get chewed on for this comment, but: I believe a lot of hunters won't support it because they feel that someone else may have opportunity that they won't ie. bow hunts when they don't bow hunt. "Dog in the Manger" and they can pin it on saving hunting's image.

These should be supplemental tags, issued by the municipality and outside the provincial limit. The precedent is there already with the QCI tags.

A local Club could be responsible for seeing that the tags are issued to tested and competent hunters. There are clubs in the US that will gladly offer advice on the mechanics of the operation. It's wide spread and successful. I guess I have a reputation on here as a bowhunter so one would assume a bowhunting opportunity would be my starting point. Not the case. I'm a hunter first. My weapon of choice is my own. We considered all manner of weapon. In the end, our proposal was shotgun and bow. So we didn't consult just bowhunters.

Our recommendation was a municipal tag. Issued by the municipality. We definitely had commitment from local clubs that if this went forward, there would need to be education, both to the community and to hunters with permits. I felt we considered all bases.

[The Hermit]

It is pretty low key here in Greater Saanich but there are a number of Ag permits issued each year and lots of venison donated to soup kitchens, FNs, and disabled folks. Not using municipal tags, or hunter tags either. Bow only.

[Riverbc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixunn7sKPz4

Urban deer hunting in Minnesota.

[Ambush]

Shotguns could be very effective and safely used if shot from elevated stands.

Noise may be an issue. I wonder if there is a way to get an exception for suppressors.

Thanks for the work and the facts J-T. Maybe in the future there can be a big "Harvest Banquet" at the local town parks.

[aggiehunter]

JT, I trust IBEP was mentioned more than once in discussions...and you know my distaste for culling wildlife all to well...especially when a true and desired look at a better solution is thrown under the bus...ie. transplants. I still wait with breath barely held for some purveyors of wildlife to "step up"..

[J_T]

Aggie, yes, there was a lot of discussion about ensuring hunters where, the right kind of hunter. And IBEP was discussed.

Of course there was a lot of discussion around transplants. For the community and the province, if I remember correctly the cost was just too high. Basically the discussion identified the issue/problem, considered the best and worst case scenarios and then explored all options. One option of course is create awareness for people who have favoured food groups in their yards, and what they can do to deter animals from wanting to be there.

I found a big stick in the bush with a big hard burl on the end, and the deer have learned I'm not afraid to use it. I've also put up fencing around my cedars. I'd like to have a paintball gun. Slightly frozen paint balls, hurt, and leave a mark. If we make it uncomfortable for the animals to be there, they move on.

[Mikey Rafiki]

The mortality rates for relocation would be quite poor considering these deer have little to no feer of humans, predators, cars, etc. in addition to the risk of sedation and transport. Knowing the cost it took for the botched attempt at caribou relocation last year in the Kootenay's I have no interest in that.

[OOBuck]

It is pretty low key here in Greater Saanich but there are a number of Ag permits issued each year and lots of venison donated to soup kitchens, FNs, and disabled folks. Not using municipal tags, or hunter tags either. Bow only.

Ya your welcome!

[BearSupreme]

The mortality rates for relocation would be quite poor considering these deer have little to no feer of humans, predators, cars, etc. in addition to the risk of sedation and transport. Knowing the cost it took for the botched attempt at caribou relocation last year in the Kootenay's I have no interest in that.

I agree. Relocations never work. Elk, Caribou, Grizzlies (bears in general), they all either find their way back or die because they arent used to the shock of environment change, not to mention the huuuge cost of doing it. Unfortunately their are too many bleeding-hearts making decisions from their couches inside huge complexes so I dont see destroying problem wild animals from urban areas as a solution anytime soon. I mean it would be to logical to get rid of problem deer and feed hungry people with top quality meat, right? Ya I dont like the anti's...

[aggiehunter]

JT...I shot a frozen paintball at an old bathtub and it made a huge dent. I don't think the deer your shooting are going back in the bush after a brush with your paintball..they would just become your neighbours problem. We have the same issue here with deer fencing eventually funneling deer to the adjacent unfenced property or on to the highway funnel of death. Of course I hope we all know the differance between an anti and a conservator..I hope...we have had excellant success with sheep transplants and the same could be done for mule deer...if we chose to...applauding a deer cull may be for some...just not me. I offered free diesel and trailer to move deer and so should the BCWF..I received no response from the city of Penticton who subsequently decided not to proceed with their problem deer transplant to nearby native land.

[The Hermit]

Ya your welcome!

Yes thanks to you and others. Point is that it isn't impossible, and can be done without too much fuss and bother. How many deer do you know of having been taken in Greater Victoria this year? Last count I had was over 50 plus the 300+- that that native guy shot at night with a 22...