Aging my buck

[rbest]

So I thought I would share my aging process and a couple Sunday football food pics! I dry aged my buck for 5 days at a temp in my garage fluctuating between 5C-8C. I know some people get scared about temps over 4C(fridge temp), but these are ideal dry aging temps for short periods of time. I also set up a fan to keep good air movement over the carcass. I took the Tenderloins out at about 3 days, to avoid any mold growing on them. you will see some mold appear in the cavity, nothing that can't be trimmed off. I then quartered it, and hung them for an additional 2 days. I butchered them down into roasts, vacuum packed them and wet aged for another 7 days. I couldn't be happier with the tenderness of the meat. I marinated the outside round, a chunk of the back strap, and sirloin. Last Sunday we fired up the Oklahoma Smoker, and smoked the roasts at 200C with Cherry wood, for 2 hours. soooo good!, hope it makes you drool....


http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy159/rbesty11/photo1a_zpsabb285aa.jpg (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/rbesty11/media/photo1a_zpsabb285aa.jpg.html)
http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy159/rbesty11/photo2a_zps14130502.jpg (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/rbesty11/media/photo2a_zps14130502.jpg.html)
http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy159/rbesty11/photo2_zps6e8dc0af.jpg (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/rbesty11/media/photo2_zps6e8dc0af.jpg.html)
http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy159/rbesty11/photo3_zpse1ffbf28.jpg (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/rbesty11/media/photo3_zpse1ffbf28.jpg.html)
http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy159/rbesty11/photo1_zps43846ef2.jpg (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/rbesty11/media/photo1_zps43846ef2.jpg.html)

[rbest]

oops, forgot to mention, once vacuum packed, the wet aging is done in the fridge!

[ru rancher]

look at that meat looks amazing

[two-feet]

Really nice stuff there. I appreciate your passion for the cooking process, good game meat deserves no less. A large part of why I love hunting is the things that happen in the kitchen after the animal is in the freezer.
The aging is so important to the tenderness and flavor of meat. You had me drooling!
I will be doing moose prime rib pepper steaks in the next week or so.

[BiG Boar]

I think tenderness has more to do with age of your buck, rather than aging the meat. In fact there is no proof that aging game meat makes any difference. How old was your buck though?

Hanging meat in the temperatures that you have done, will most likely have more harm on the meat, than the good it does.

However it does look good from the pictures, and will probably be fine. I used to age my meat as well. But after seeing the facts on it, I believe I was just wasting more of the meat as the outside must now be cut off.

[ravensfoot]

I way prefer to age my meat too and butcher it myself. Tastes fantastic and I have never had any issues what so ever. I also always wet-age my store bought meat on those years where I sucked at hunting and didn't get anything, kinda like this year.

[~T-BONE~]

The more fat cover u have on a carcass will help u to age it longer by keeping meat from drying out. Especially with an ideal (consistent) cooler temperature. I do much the same as above usually with leaner animals having hung for 4-5 days. Then cut primal cuts off top rounds, loins etc in vacuum bags for 12-14 days then tie roasts/cut steaks..

As as stated with the fatter carcasses u can skip the vacuum bag aging process.. I strongly recommend either of the two aging procedures..

And yes age of the animal makes a large difference as well as the time of year.. Ie; during the rut/post rut.

[rbest]

I think tenderness has more to do with age of your buck, rather than aging the meat. In fact there is no proof that aging game meat makes any difference. How old was your buck though?

Hanging meat in the temperatures that you have done, will most likely have more harm on the meat, than the good it does.

However it does look good from the pictures, and will probably be fine. I used to age my meat as well. But after seeing the facts on it, I believe I was just wasting more of the meat as the outside must now be cut off.

Hey, if you like to eat green meat, all the power to ya! I would have to strongly disagree with the damaging the meat part. Yes, the age of an animal will have a difference in tenderness, due to the muscles not being used as much. Aging is an art, and Being a Chef I learned a lot about aging meats through school. I have been also lucky enough to see how beef, pork, and lamb are slaughtered, aged, and put out to the consumers. I have tried meats all through the aging process. I guarantee you, that you put green meat in a side by side test against aged meat, and you will see a world of difference. Aging is the process of the connective tissue in the muscle breaking down over time. Riga mortis takes 72 hours to dissipate, during this time the meat is very tough, after that the aging begins. I though can agree with you that dry aging always will end up with less yield(but some chefs/butchers swear by it). Wet aging will end up with a higher yield, because you won't have to trim as much. That is why using a combination method on a smaller animal will decrease the waste.
For an example Beef is almost always aged from 21-28 days weather it's wet aging or dry. ICP for an example gets quarters in, they butcher to subprimals, then wet age the subprimals for 28 days.
Now a deer is about the size of a quarter of beef, that is why combination aging works well to have the best yield possible.

As far as temperature goes for the aging, there is nothing wrong with 5-8C, this being an average temp. My garage over night was getting down to 2C. As long as you are not aging your meat at that temp for the full term, it is fine. Dry age for half, then wet age in the fridge for the other half. Braseola for an example is aged 10C. As long as you monitor your meat daily, and have good airflow over it, then there is nothing wrong with the meat at all.

[moosinaround]

I much prefer aged meat over fresh cut meat. More of a flavour thing rather that tenderness thing?! Moosin

[Papa Sasquatch]

Aging good, Exception of the Liver and Heart. Fantastic for immediate consumption. Cooked by the kill nearest fire pit.

[~T-BONE~]

I've been and grown up in the butcher business all my life.. Rbest couldn't have explained it in detail any better.

[BiG Boar]

This is from hunt writer a while back. I believe he is or was a butcher for many years.



Meat toughness comes from 99% from how it is cooked. Unfortunately most hunters do not know how to cook wild game meat. The longer you cook it the tougher it gets. I cut, wrap and freeze the majority of my deer within 24 hours of killing them and we have never eaten any though venison.




"Aging" wild game meat is one of the oldest, but flawed, myth. There is not a single scientific shred of evidence that proves any improvement of the meat quality. However, there is plenty of evidence that wild game meat has been partially or totally spoiled by aging it. As cdub mentioned wild game meat is not like beef. In addition aging is only then serviceable, even for beef, if it can be done under strict temperature and humidity control, which can not be done in a household or in most butcher shops.


Depending on the temperature I butcher, wrap and freeze wild game meat the same day I killed the animal and never later then the very next day. Never wrap any meat and just store it in the fridge stacked on top of each other. It's a recipe for spoiled meat. The same holds true for staking meat packages on top of each other in the freezer. Instead lay the packages out in a single layer in the fridge or freezer until they are completely cooled/frozen.


Hope this helps.

[~T-BONE~]

This is from hunt writer a while back. I believe he is or was a butcher for many years.
I disagree strongly! That's just "his" opinion. I can understand that with a rutted out animal though.,

[hunter1993ap]

Hey, if you like to eat green meat, all the power to ya! I would have to strongly disagree with the damaging the meat part. Yes, the age of an animal will have a difference in tenderness, due to the muscles not being used as much. Aging is an art, and Being a Chef I learned a lot about aging meats through school. I have been also lucky enough to see how beef, pork, and lamb are slaughtered, aged, and put out to the consumers. I have tried meats all through the aging process. I guarantee you, that you put green meat in a side by side test against aged meat, and you will see a world of difference. Aging is the process of the connective tissue in the muscle breaking down over time. Riga mortis takes 72 hours to dissipate, during this time the meat is very tough, after that the aging begins. I though can agree with you that dry aging always will end up with less yield(but some chefs/butchers swear by it). Wet aging will end up with a higher yield, because you won't have to trim as much. That is why using a combination method on a smaller animal will decrease the waste.
For an example Beef is almost always aged from 21-28 days weather it's wet aging or dry. ICP for an example gets quarters in, they butcher to subprimals, then wet age the subprimals for 28 days.
Now a deer is about the size of a quarter of beef, that is why combination aging works well to have the best yield possible.

As far as temperature goes for the aging, there is nothing wrong with 5-8C, this being an average temp. My garage over night was getting down to 2C. As long as you are not aging your meat at that temp for the full term, it is fine. Dry age for half, then wet age in the fridge for the other half. Braseola for an example is aged 10C. As long as you monitor your meat daily, and have good airflow over it, then there is nothing wrong with the meat at all.
I fully agree with you, age it as long as you can. we hang our deer for as many days as we can before it gets cut. dad was a butcher and we always test it along the aging process from day one till we cut it. some deer we have hung for two weeks or so. anyone who says it does nothing, well just keep thinking that and do whatever you want.

[stinkyduck]

I cut my two point moose last year after only hanging it for two days. the meat including the hamburger was tough! this year i got the local butcher to hang it for three weeks. the meat is much more tender! and we are enjoying it alot better! My young kid who does not eat much meat yet, ate quite abit, saying Dad i like this chicken, who am i to argue with a seven year old! LOL! i think rbest has it right on the money!!!

[Dutch Ppoacher]

I think tenderness has more to do with age of your buck, rather than aging the meat. In fact there is no proof that aging game meat makes any difference. How old was your buck though?

Hanging meat in the temperatures that you have done, will most likely have more harm on the meat, than the good it does.

However it does look good from the pictures, and will probably be fine. I used to age my meat as well. But after seeing the facts on it, I believe I was just wasting more of the meat as the outside must now be cut off.

one of my best friends whom is a Butcher here in Port Alberni has been saying exactly the same thing about game meat not needing to hang as it doesn't improve the meat. i usually cut them up as soon as i have time!

[rbest]

one of my best friends whom is a Butcher here in Port Alberni has been saying exactly the same thing about game meat not needing to hang as it doesn't improve the meat. i usually cut them up as soon as i have time!

Here is an interesting read that talks about the process

It is a well-known fact that the countries finest steakhouses “age” their meat. In the domestic meat world that’s really overkill because cattle, pigs, and sheep all have very under developed muscle structure, especially when compared to wild game animals. We need to understand that most wild birds and big game animals are the equivalent of Olympic athletes. They fly thousands of miles during migration or run up and down 10,000-foot mountains for a living. Mature game animals are tremendous physical specimens. The only natural way to break down their highly developed structure and make the meat tender, without resorting to meat hammers and artificial tenderizing agents, is to give nature time to do her work, at temperatures that discourage bacterial activity. This whole process is referred to as “dry aging” and although it may sound complicated…its actually quite simple.
“Dry aging is nothing more than the dehydration of excessive amounts of internal muscular moisture, (capillary blood and water). Without this moisture, these highly developed muscle systems lose their strength and eventually break down. Additionally, by removing the capillary blood, you rid the meat of the aggressive, so-called “gamey” flavor, often associated with wild game meats.
Capillary blood is found in muscles and it is basically the broken down bi-product of what that animal has consumed. The body filters all the nutrients from the food and discards most of the heavy waste. However, there is still the remaining residue from that food source within the capillary blood. So, when you harvest that big old buck, that’s been feeding on sage and bitterbrush for the past six years, that bi-product is very evident in the flavor of that meat.

[SingleShot]

Guy I knew hung elk for 3-4 weeks @ about 2 +/- degrees. Never failed to be great.

[Whonnock Boy]

Ever since I started butchering my own the quality has been top notch. This includes aging as long as the carcass will allow. When comparing the quality of my product to that of my father in-laws who butchers immediately, mine is always better regardless of animal age, or date taken. Granted, the tenderness factor is not extreme, but there is a difference.

Best, your stuff looks fantastic!

[Dannybuoy]

Sorry rbest but you lost me at the moldy meat part ..... obviously you hung it for too long at that temperature ....

"I took the Tenderloins out at about 3 days, to avoid any mold growing on them. you will see some mold appear in the cavity, nothing that can't be trimmed off "

[tinhorse]

I have found that "ageing" will affect tenderness more than flavor. I strongly believe that the flavor of the animal is highly dependent on its diet, and how the animal was taken and immediately looked after. Ive had steaks from friends that have left their animal overnight and found it in the morning, they were terrible. I do all my own cutting and the only "bad" tasting game ive had was from the first deer I shot, older buck in rut that didn't get gutted right away (2 hours after death) that I had a butcher cut up. The meat was not tasty at all. Every other animal Ive shot has been great, from big rutted moose to full rut deer. Shoot, gut, skin and hang ASAP then butcher whenever I have time to do so. Flavor hasn't really changed from a deer hung from 2 day to 10 days, but like many have said the tenderness does seem to improve, especially with older game. Young deer and moose I will cut right away and have NEVER had a problem with flavor or tenderness.

[hunter1993ap]

Sorry rbest but you lost me at the moldy meat part ..... obviously you hung it for too long at that temperature ....

"I took the Tenderloins out at about 3 days, to avoid any mold growing on them. you will see some mold appear in the cavity, nothing that can't be trimmed off "
not true, like he said it can be trimmed off.

[Jelvis]

72 hours is all you need to hang a deer. After that it loses moisture and dries out with a hard outer layer of very dry dark meat.
One of my buddies hangs his deer for 12 days.
It's a European way, hang ducks til they fall off the neck type a stuff.
It depends how hungry you are and when the meat could go bad.
Controlled temperature above freezing is best, then 16 days like some restaurants do.
Your deer looked a bit thin not much fat?
Meat looks scrump dilly yish shush

[Jim Prawn]

Looks good to me. We typically hang for 10-14 days in a cooler, and if it is a deer that is going to be in the cooler in short order we leave the hide on so it doesnt dry out. Making sure the cavity is completely clean and dry is crucial if not splitting the carcass in half. Also, if the animal is shoulder shot (not neck or head) I will skin and clean up any shot-up portions since the blood shot will sour more quickly. Can't beat my meat.
JP

[tomahawk]

We have wondered and argued this question for many years and ever since I started hunting. Several years ago we took a bull moose and thought we would try and discover for ourselves whether it made a difference or not. The bull was harvested and hung in camp for 3 days while we filled the other LEH draw. Day 4 we took the bull back to PG to my garage for clean up and then walked it next door to my neighbour Larry's cooler where we hung half of it for 3 more days (total 7
days from kill), the other half of the same bull we let hang for as long as Larry would give us room which ended up being 13 days (total of 17 days from kill). Our findings were that the 17 day aged meat was basically the same taste as the 7 day but the tenderness was better in the 17 day meat on all cuts. Larry a life long butcher/meat manager from Overwaitea said that it would probably be attributed to a slow breakdown of muscle tissue in a controlled environment or the meat gets more tender as it is essentially breaking down and if left unattended forever would rot. We hang as long as it is good temp for the meat to this day.

[Dannybuoy]

not true, like he said it can be trimmed off.

Just saying I prefer not to have to trim mold off of my meat , wild or domestic . I have hung game for over 10 days , ate beef hung for 14 days But have never had to trim mold ....

[quadrakid]

I,m with you Dannybuoy, If its got mold on it it is spoiling.

[Mikey Rafiki]

I,m with you Dannybuoy, If its got mold on it it is spoiling.

Not quite true at all: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef_aging
I know this refers to beef but the same general principle applies.

I make a good dry cured sausage that gets mouldy too. Just wipe off with a vinegar water solution. This has been done for many many years by many chefs and butchers.

[rbest]

Not quite true at all: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef_aging
I know this refers to beef but the same general principle applies.

I make a good dry cured sausage that gets mouldy too. Just wipe off with a vinegar water solution. This has been done for many many years by many chefs and butchers.



Exactly!!! Mold when dry aging is totally natural!

Thought I would just post up some pics of some good looking smoked venison, after some good aging. Guess that was a bad idea! I will keep my successes with aging and cooking wild game to myself next time, and only post pictures of dead animals.:???:

[HarryToolips]

Looks tasty

[Dannybuoy]

Exactly!!! Mold when dry aging is totally natural!
know
Thought I would just post up some pics of some good looking smoked venison, after some good aging. Guess that was a bad idea! I will keep my successes with aging and cooking wild game to myself next time, and only post pictures of dead animals.:???:
Do as you wish ..... I was merely pointing out that if your meat was growing mold your temperature or cooling methods might not be correct , Appparently your goal was to have your meat grow mold so Well Done ! but why bother to trim it off ..... just throw it in the sausage no one will know :-D

[Jelvis]

Some butcher say, don't put water on a fresh carcass, causes mold.
Some say, spray the carcass with water, so who knows really.

[Darksith]

A couple things I have picked up on...

what is the difference between wild game meat and farmed meat? Nothing...meat is meat. Its all made of the same type of DNA that builds muscle tissue. Am I wrong?

If you are going to hang your game, you should be splitting the ribs and pelvis open at the very least, why wouldn't you half it down the spine. That will prevent the mold developing in the inner cavities.

Aging meat is simply put "controlled rot" nothing wrong with it, or even trimming a bit of mold, but why not prevent that mold by opening it up?

Freezing does the same thing to the meat as hanging it fyi...that could be why there is an argument about aging or not prior to cut and wrap. Aged beef, especially high end or well aged beef would not be frozen prior to being served. The meat at the supermarket is not aged per say...not like the top shelf 28 day aged beef.

To each their own, but if I was the OP, I would be halving my animal prior to hanging it for extended times, and I always hang my meat for usually a week at the butcher. I do not agree with cutting it the same day as rigor is real and its proven, even if freezing can undo it. If you say rigor is irrelevant, cut a steak off an animal in full rigor and cook it up then report back.

[Darksith]

Exactly!!! Mold when dry aging is totally natural!

Thought I would just post up some pics of some good looking smoked venison, after some good aging. Guess that was a bad idea! I will keep my successes with aging and cooking wild game to myself next time, and only post pictures of dead animals.:???:
no not really...you won't get mold on it if you get it to harden, you aren't getting it to harden because its being bathed in moisture coming off the animal that is getting trapped in the cavity.

[Jim Prawn]

Mould requires moisture to grow, so drier is definitely better. This is why you usually get mould inside the cavity of an animal that has not been split in half before the outside gets it - lack of circulation and therefore retention of moisture. However, as stated previously, mould can be trimmed off with no effect to the remaining meat, but it is definitely not something I prefer to do. Just more work and more waste. Many prime cuts of beef are aged for up to 21 days or longer but the key here is humidity control to prevent the growth of mould.

If God didn't want us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?
JP

[Walking Buffalo]

I think tenderness has more to do with age of your buck, rather than aging the meat. In fact there is no proof that aging game meat makes any difference. How old was your buck though?

Hanging meat in the temperatures that you have done, will most likely have more harm on the meat, than the good it does.

However it does look good from the pictures, and will probably be fine. I used to age my meat as well. But after seeing the facts on it, I believe I was just wasting more of the meat as the outside must now be cut off.


In "Fact", the is a lot of research which proves game meat is effected by aging just like domestic meat.


Many will say that they butcher their game immediately and it is just fine. Sure it is fine, but it would be more tender and possibly more flavourful if it was aged.


What happens to game shortly after it is killed?

It goes into Rigor Mortis, a chemically induced contraction of muscle cells that takes up to 72 hours to expire. Any meat butchered before this time will be significantly chewier than if the meat was aged past rigor mortis.

[hunter1947]

I think tenderness has more to do with age of your buck, rather than aging the meat. In fact there is no proof that aging game meat makes any difference. How old was your buck though?

Hanging meat in the temperatures that you have done, will most likely have more harm on the meat, than the good it does.

However it does look good from the pictures, and will probably be fine. I used to age my meat as well. But after seeing the facts on it, I believe I was just wasting more of the meat as the outside must now be cut off.


I agree with Dave on his post for sure..

[M.Dean]

Some butcher say, don't put water on a fresh carcass, causes mold.
Some say, spray the carcass with water, so who knows really. I use a 27 hundred PSI Pressure washer on all my animals, then we take some towels and dry it real good, sure makes it a lot nicer come time to cut it all up, way less hair and dried blood etc. I've got a real old pamphlet of my Fathers on care for Deer when hanging, it say's in there that mold is quite natural, and to keep wiping it off as you age the meat? I normally hang my Deer or Moose for about a full week, 7 days. I'm lucky enough now to have a walk in cooler, I keep it between plus 2 to about 5 or 6 degrees Celsius, the fan run's 24-7, and on the odd animal there's still a bit of mold. It wipes off easy, we use water and some vinegar, then wipe dry, and continue hanging. I find if I cut and wrap the meat after only a few days, I have to unwrap the packages in the sink because of the massive amount of blood still in the meat. And when you start cooking the meat, you get lots of moisture in the frying pan. I think aging the meat helps with tenderness for sure, what breaks down the meat over time is a type of bacteria, a good kind of bacteria, not the Black Plague kind! Some say hang, some say do not hang, each to there own I guess. I'd like to get a late season, battle scarred, stinky old rutt'in Buck, cut it down the middle, then hang half for about 3 weeks, and the other half for only 2 or 3 days, just to see what the difference in tenderness would be like. If it wasn't so bloody cold out I'd be out there right now looking for a late season,battle scarred, stinky old rutt'in Buck!!!

[rbest]

Do as you wish ..... I was merely pointing out that if your meat was growing mold your temperature or cooling methods might not be correct , Appparently your goal was to have your meat grow mold so Well Done ! but why bother to trim it off ..... just throw it in the sausage no one will know :-D

I think for one you can say a lot of things hiding behind your computer screen! Two, I think people are picturing hanging carcasses covered in mold. The general places I will see any mold is in the cavity there may be a few spots on the back bone in little crevices, or where I have removed the tenderloins. All of the quarters and most edible areas usually stay fine. That is why you have constant airflow over the carcass. If you do get any specs on meat, it can easily be washed off with vinegar water solution, or trimmed in hard to get areas, as so many on here have said. Everyone has their ways, opinions etc. everyone has their own ways for butchering, aging, cooking, as long as your happy with your product. I shared mine, haven't attacked anyone, only stated facts and techniques I have learned over the past 16 years being a chef. When you say " your goal was to grow mold, so well done" well that doesn't really do any good for anyone or the site!

[Getbent]

Exactly!!! Mold when dry aging is totally natural!

Thought I would just post up some pics of some good looking smoked venison, after some good aging. Guess that was a bad idea! I will keep my successes with aging and cooking wild game to myself next time, and only post pictures of dead animals.:???:

I wouldn't sweat this too much there rbest...debate is frequent and brings out all kinds of opinions and information that can be a benefit to everyone...good info.
I as well am papered, no longer in the biz, but understand fully what we are trying to achieve through ageing processes however they are done.

Some of the finest suppliers of meat in the world will dry-age beef upwards of 70 days in controlled environments around 35 degrees and very low moisture of less than 80%.
There have been prime ribs aged for 180 days....

[Dannybuoy]

I think for one you can say a lot of things hiding behind your computer screen! Two, I think people are picturing hanging carcasses covered in mold. The general places I will see any mold is in the cavity there may be a few spots on the back bone in little crevices, or where I have removed the tenderloins. All of the quarters and most edible areas usually stay fine. That is why you have constant airflow over the carcass. If you do get any specs on meat, it can easily be washed off with vinegar water solution, or trimmed in hard to get areas, as so many on here have said. Everyone has their ways, opinions etc. everyone has their own ways for butchering, aging, cooking, as long as your happy with your product. I shared mine, haven't attacked anyone, only stated facts and techniques I have learned over the past 16 years being a chef. When you say " your goal was to grow mold, so well done" well that doesn't really do any good for anyone or the site!
I also haven't attacked anyone ..at first I merely pointed out that I have never seen mold on any game I have hung and if you were getting mold that there were probably some precautions you could take to avoid that in the future ie temperature , airflow or length of time under the conditions that you had . It was you that said it was "natural " to have mold . How would I not conclude that it was not only your goal to have mold but that meant to you that it was going well ? So IMO it is doing some good point out to others on the site that if they see mold or their game meat is turning color there is probably room for improvement. Again this is my personal preference not to eat meat that I know has gone moldy ...cheese I am fine with .

[Dannybuoy]

getbent : do you not agree that there is a difference between getting surface mold dry-aging for weeks and mold appearing on hanging meat after only 3-4 days as the OP stated ?
PS I know its his to do with as he pleases .... as is anyone else .

[rbest]

getbent : do you not agree that there is a difference between getting surface mold dry-aging for weeks and mold appearing on hanging meat after only 3-4 days as the OP stated ?
PS I know its his to do with as he pleases .... as is anyone else .


Just to clarify, I didn't say there was mold after 3 days, I said I removed the tenderloins after 3 days. The tenderloins I feel only need 3 days. But I take them out early to avoid any chance of having them dry out or get damaged and loose any yield. Give it up already man, this thread is dead!

[BiG Boar]

This thread is just getting started! I mean, some people think that just because a cow at 800lbs hanging 28 days, should be hung the same length of time as a 150lb deer. I still only age my meat in camp, 1 to 10 days depending on how good of a hunter I am. Then I throw it in the fridge for a day or 2 once I'm home, as there is stuff to clean up.

Why I think threads like these are important are for the guys that really dont have a clue how to properly age game. I was in that boat at one time. I figured it was fine in my garage at around 5C for a week or 2. The science behind aging, even though I don't think there is any on wild game, is that it must be held at a certain temperature (not varying) in a certain humidity. A controlled environment. A garage is the farthest thing from a controlled environment. One good case of Botulism will ensure you weren't really as good off as you think.

[wicket]

Exactly!!! Mold when dry aging is totally natural!

Thought I would just post up some pics of some good looking smoked venison, after some good aging. Guess that was a bad idea! I will keep my successes with aging and cooking wild game to myself next time, and only post pictures of dead animals.:???:

no need to take your ball and go home, be cool. all I see is just a difference in opinions on a msg board no big deal. In my 32 years of big game hunting the aging of wild meat is one of the constants where peoples opinions differ.

[BiG Boar]

Other than eating a piece of each from the same cut of animal (one aged one not), is there any scientific way to measure tenderness?

[Weatherby Fan]

From my experience with deer as I've cut some up the day after being shot and some a week after never noticed a difference in the tenderness,
WF

[stinkyduck]

Somewhere on the net I seen that calelas( i think) sells a intrument that would be in your hanging room. it thats into consideration the temp. and the moisture of the room and tells you how long you should hang your meat. anybody here know anything about this? also out there somewhere is a contraption that is used in conjunction with a regular AC unit that brings the temp. even lower, that allows you to use the AC unit in your hanging room. cant find it anymore either!

[wicket]

I have been cutting up my deer as soon as I can for years ...sometimes the same night I shoot them if time was an issue and have had terrific eating. I went to college with a guy who would hang them in his garage for 21 days...green. he trimmed it off and it was all normal for him. I like the "clean" venison taste I get with the fresh cut and wrapped deer. This is definitely a to each their own topic.

[rbest]

This thread is just getting started! I mean, some people think that just because a cow at 800lbs hanging 28 days, should be hung the same length of time as a 150lb deer. I still only age my meat in camp, 1 to 10 days depending on how good of a hunter I am. Then I throw it in the fridge for a day or 2 once I'm home, as there is stuff to clean up.

Why I think threads like these are important are for the guys that really dont have a clue how to properly age game. I was in that boat at one time. I figured it was fine in my garage at around 5C for a week or 2. The science behind aging, even though I don't think there is any on wild game, is that it must be held at a certain temperature (not varying) in a certain humidity. A controlled environment. A garage is the farthest thing from a controlled environment. One good case of Botulism will ensure you weren't really as good off as you think.


Haha, maybe we can get it as long as the "close any buck general open seasons...." 44 page thread! Fortunately I don't think many people will be getting Botulism any time soon from hanging game! That's unless we start hanging our game in a zero oxygen environment like in sealed can of some sort(jk)! I'm all for the discussion, just not the bashing! As someone told me it's sometimes the Hunters bashing club(HBC)

[two-feet]

Yup, opinions are like assholes...everybody has one and nobody wants to hear yours (or mine).
I feel aging can not but help with the tenderness and flavour of meat. However, I had a spiker moose cut the same day several years ago and it was succulent. Maybe it would have been better after aging? Cant say

[stinkyduck]

Well that seemed to wrap up the stinky meat!!!!

[lonnie]

Mold is not always a "spoilage issue". in dry curing sausage, or making ham and prosciutto, it is actually par for the course, there are good molds and bad molds though.

[Darksith]

Other than eating a piece of each from the same cut of animal (one aged one not), is there any scientific way to measure tenderness?

the myth busters had a way to measure meat tenderness...not sure if they took the method from industry or not, but it would be easily testable

[CSG]

hahahahahahaha this thread is awesome

For those who want to learn about aging meat, there is a lot of valuable info on here.

For those who say aging does nothing or it does negative things for meat, lets look at it from a different perspective...a business perspective.

I am a product development chef for a restaurant group that runs approximately 30 restaurants across canada and in the US, true story. I want to put a new steak on the menu, i want the best possible steak at the best possible price. Aging costs money, plain and simple. Wether its wet or dry aging, my meat packer is going to charge me for every day that my steak sits in his warehouse.

Long before the steaks are sitting in the warehouse, we have presented to a tasting panel that proposed new steak at varying degrees of aging. We will have 3 steaks aged 18 days, 3 steaks aged 19 days, 3 steaks aged 20 days etc etc. and we will have a tasting panel of regular Joes, chefs and meat industry people taste and rate them all based on flavor, juiciness, tenderness etc etc. Whats interesting is that every different cut ages for different times because every cut has a "sweet spot" when it comes to aging based on our customers taste and price point. This sweet spot gives our steaks the best flavor and tenderness for the least amount of days we have to age it.

One or two days difference in aging is not really noticeable unless you are doing a side by side tasting and even then it can get confusing. Remember, we are dealing with animals which will always vary even in the most controlled conditions of todays ranches and feedlots.

So from a business standpoint, I dont want to age my steaks for a single day past what i have to because each day adds a couple pennies to the cost of the steak. Not alot when you think of a single steak but aging our Striploins for 2 extra days will cost my company tens of thousands of dollars a year.

For those that say aging meat does nothing or is bad for meat.... your wrong... or your butcher wants to get your meat out of his cooler ASAP cause its costing him money to age it there hahaha

PS- I butchered a hind quarter of blacktail tonight that was aging for 21 days in a garage, this buck was chasing does in the rut when i shot him and when I fried up a small leg muscle tonight, he was more tender than most venison i have had. Here is a shot of the leg, yes I lost the outside 1/4" of meat in some places but the rest was sublime, I could have butchered it with a butter knife

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a547/CSG83/21dayagedvenisonleg_zps39713fc0.jpg (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/CSG83/media/21dayagedvenisonleg_zps39713fc0.jpg.html)

[DeDutch]

We have been butchering our own game for years now, elk moose and deer. We use a walk in cooler built at my parents place, and have hung game for as long as 12 days to as little as 2. So far the ageing does seem to help with tenderness, and I haven't had any aged game that was distasteful. It does make a difference!!! That said it also does cost you a certain amount of trimmed meat..... The only game that I have had mould on was an elk that I shot and packed out of a river bottom by myself, I wasn't prepared with a tarp so I got a bit of dirt on the meat and it was raining that day to boot. If the meat is dry it usually will not grow mould, wiping the outside of the animal down with vinegar does seem to help prevent mould, also if skinning the animal off at home I like to use a shop vac to clean up the bits of hair left on the carcass(much easier than wiping it down with a cloth)!!!

I am curious as to whether there are any hunters out there who have wet aged their meat in the field? I try to debone any larger animals like elk but do not want to hang bags of cut meat....so I was looking at whether it is feasible to pack the meat into large ziplock bags and sink it in a cold lake/stream?? It seems like it should work but it would be nice to hear if someone else has tried this already?

[Darksith]

some people think that just because a cow at 800lbs hanging 28 days, should be hung the same length of time as a 150lb deer. what about a moose that is 800lbs, or an elk at 600lbs?

Meat is meat, aging while possibly not crucial, does have value if you have the time and conditions to pull it off properly.

[DeDutch]

One other thing we have found out by experience, if the animal has had any arrows/ bullets into the shoulder area, you will have bloodshot in the pocket area and this is best butchered immediately as it will begin to spoil if left(the bloodshot is particulary bad if harvested with an arrow). It does seem to be best to clean up the front shoulders and also the neck as the neck will begin spoiling more quickly than other parts of the animal. I like to make most of that into ground and the rest of the animal can hang as long as it wants.

[blackbart]

I am letting all of my game meat age for another nine months or so!

[rbest]

hahahahahahaha this thread is awesome

For those who want to learn about aging meat, there is a lot of valuable info on here.

For those who say aging does nothing or it does negative things for meat, lets look at it from a different perspective...a business perspective.

I am a product development chef for a restaurant group that runs approximately 30 restaurants across canada and in the US, true story. I want to put a new steak on the menu, i want the best possible steak at the best possible price. Aging costs money, plain and simple. Wether its wet or dry aging, my meat packer is going to charge me for every day that my steak sits in his warehouse.

Long before the steaks are sitting in the warehouse, we have presented to a tasting panel that proposed new steak at varying degrees of aging. We will have 3 steaks aged 18 days, 3 steaks aged 19 days, 3 steaks aged 20 days etc etc. and we will have a tasting panel of regular Joes, chefs and meat industry people taste and rate them all based on flavor, juiciness, tenderness etc etc. Whats interesting is that every different cut ages for different times because every cut has a "sweet spot" when it comes to aging based on our customers taste and price point. This sweet spot gives our steaks the best flavor and tenderness for the least amount of days we have to age it.

One or two days difference in aging is not really noticeable unless you are doing a side by side tasting and even then it can get confusing. Remember, we are dealing with animals which will always vary even in the most controlled conditions of todays ranches and feedlots.

So from a business standpoint, I dont want to age my steaks for a single day past what i have to because each day adds a couple pennies to the cost of the steak. Not alot when you think of a single steak but aging our Striploins for 2 extra days will cost my company tens of thousands of dollars a year.

For those that say aging meat does nothing or is bad for meat.... your wrong... or your butcher wants to get your meat out of his cooler ASAP cause its costing him money to age it there hahaha

PS- I butchered a hind quarter of blacktail tonight that was aging for 21 days in a garage, this buck was chasing does in the rut when i shot him and when I fried up a small leg muscle tonight, he was more tender than most venison i have had. Here is a shot of the leg, yes I lost the outside 1/4" of meat in some places but the rest was sublime, I could have butchered it with a butter knife

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a547/CSG83/21dayagedvenisonleg_zps39713fc0.jpg (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/CSG83/media/21dayagedvenisonleg_zps39713fc0.jpg.html)

Here's CSG's beauty Region 2 Blacktail at aging process day 1 haha

[rbest]

Here's CSG's beauty Region 2 Blacktail at aging process day 1 haha

...helps if I attach the photo

http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy159/rbesty11/photo_zps025c10aa.jpg (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/rbesty11/media/photo_zps025c10aa.jpg.html)

[Getbent]

The science behind aging, even though I don't think there is any on wild game, is that it must be held at a certain temperature (not varying) in a certain humidity. A controlled environment. A garage is the farthest thing from a controlled environment. .

Very true statement...one of the main objectives to dry-ageing meat is to concentrate flavors. With that being said, the most important factor is to start with good product, quickly dispatched, gutted, and allowed to cool (hide off) as quickly as possible. The animal then has to be kept as clean as possible...this includes your dirty paws staying off the meat....JMHO.

I don't think I would want any fuzz starting on my meat in a short time...their are favorable bacterias as well as unfavorable.

[BiG Boar]

hahahahahahaha this thread is awesome

For those who want to learn about aging meat, there is a lot of valuable info on here.

For those who say aging does nothing or it does negative things for meat, lets look at it from a different perspective...a business perspective.

I am a product development chef for a restaurant group that runs approximately 30 restaurants across canada and in the US, true story. I want to put a new steak on the menu, i want the best possible steak at the best possible price. Aging costs money, plain and simple. Wether its wet or dry aging, my meat packer is going to charge me for every day that my steak sits in his warehouse.

Long before the steaks are sitting in the warehouse, we have presented to a tasting panel that proposed new steak at varying degrees of aging. We will have 3 steaks aged 18 days, 3 steaks aged 19 days, 3 steaks aged 20 days etc etc. and we will have a tasting panel of regular Joes, chefs and meat industry people taste and rate them all based on flavor, juiciness, tenderness etc etc. Whats interesting is that every different cut ages for different times because every cut has a "sweet spot" when it comes to aging based on our customers taste and price point. This sweet spot gives our steaks the best flavor and tenderness for the least amount of days we have to age it.

One or two days difference in aging is not really noticeable unless you are doing a side by side tasting and even then it can get confusing. Remember, we are dealing with animals which will always vary even in the most controlled conditions of todays ranches and feedlots.

So from a business standpoint, I dont want to age my steaks for a single day past what i have to because each day adds a couple pennies to the cost of the steak. Not alot when you think of a single steak but aging our Striploins for 2 extra days will cost my company tens of thousands of dollars a year.

For those that say aging meat does nothing or is bad for meat.... your wrong... or your butcher wants to get your meat out of his cooler ASAP cause its costing him money to age it there hahaha

PS- I butchered a hind quarter of blacktail tonight that was aging for 21 days in a garage, this buck was chasing does in the rut when i shot him and when I fried up a small leg muscle tonight, he was more tender than most venison i have had. Here is a shot of the leg, yes I lost the outside 1/4" of meat in some places but the rest was sublime, I could have butchered it with a butter knife

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a547/CSG83/21dayagedvenisonleg_zps39713fc0.jpg (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/CSG83/media/21dayagedvenisonleg_zps39713fc0.jpg.html)

If you want to save money, why not age it in a garage then? Said tongue in cheek. Or is there some scientific reasoning, or food safety reason, why it would work better in a controlled environment?

Since you said there was a point for each animal and each cut of meat, what is the comparison of a veal (about the size of a BT) and a thousand pound cow for aging length? When does the meat quality start to deteriorate? Or is there any way uncontrolled temperature hanging it can ruin the meat? Do they ever partially freeze the meat while hanging it in one of your professionals coolers? How does repeated freezing/thawing overnight in ones garage affect the quality in any way?

[Getbent]

As stated earlier, one of the main reasons for ageing is to intensify the flavor, essentially you are removing moisture, I would think there comes a time when the negetaives outwiegh the benefits of this process. I, for one have never heard of freezing and thawing repeatively to age meet, at least not on purpose.

[sawmill]

hahahahahahaha this thread is awesome

For those who want to learn about aging meat, there is a lot of valuable info on here.

For those who say aging does nothing or it does negative things for meat, lets look at it from a different perspective...a business perspective.

I am a product development chef for a restaurant group that runs approximately 30 restaurants across canada and in the US, true story. I want to put a new steak on the menu, i want the best possible steak at the best possible price. Aging costs money, plain and simple. Wether its wet or dry aging, my meat packer is going to charge me for every day that my steak sits in his warehouse.

Long before the steaks are sitting in the warehouse, we have presented to a tasting panel that proposed new steak at varying degrees of aging. We will have 3 steaks aged 18 days, 3 steaks aged 19 days, 3 steaks aged 20 days etc etc. and we will have a tasting panel of regular Joes, chefs and meat industry people taste and rate them all based on flavor, juiciness, tenderness etc etc. Whats interesting is that every different cut ages for different times because every cut has a "sweet spot" when it comes to aging based on our customers taste and price point. This sweet spot gives our steaks the best flavor and tenderness for the least amount of days we have to age it.

One or two days difference in aging is not really noticeable unless you are doing a side by side tasting and even then it can get confusing. Remember, we are dealing with animals which will always vary even in the most controlled conditions of todays ranches and feedlots.

So from a business standpoint, I dont want to age my steaks for a single day past what i have to because each day adds a couple pennies to the cost of the steak. Not alot when you think of a single steak but aging our Striploins for 2 extra days will cost my company tens of thousands of dollars a year.

For those that say aging meat does nothing or is bad for meat.... your wrong... or your butcher wants to get your meat out of his cooler ASAP cause its costing him money to age it there hahaha

PS- I butchered a hind quarter of blacktail tonight that was aging for 21 days in a garage, this buck was chasing does in the rut when i shot him and when I fried up a small leg muscle tonight, he was more tender than most venison i have had. Here is a shot of the leg, yes I lost the outside 1/4" of meat in some places but the rest was sublime, I could have butchered it with a butter knife

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a547/CSG83/21dayagedvenisonleg_zps39713fc0.jpg (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/CSG83/media/21dayagedvenisonleg_zps39713fc0.jpg.html)

Does all the hair help the flavor?

[Dannybuoy]

Does all the hair help the flavor?

LOL , I wasn't going to mention that but yuck .... its not the differences in opinion about aging the meat But the way some care for it really makes me wonder ... ie mold , hair etc

[hare_assassin]

I count about 20 hairs. Big deal. It's all going to be trimmed off with the crust layer anyway.

[Dannybuoy]

I count about 20 hairs. Big deal. It's all going to be trimmed off with the crust layer anyway.

that's another issue .. just how do you get that crust ? I haven't ever had to trim a layer ..... mind you I have only cut up or helped with maybe 100 or so deer over the last 30 years which is a lot less than some of you .

[hare_assassin]

that's another issue .. just how do you get that crust ? I haven't ever had to trim a layer ..... mind you I have only cut up or helped with maybe 100 or so deer over the last 30 years which is a lot less than some of you .

You've got to be kidding, now. That crust forms after a few short days in cool, dry environments. Everyone knows this. Every deer I have ever butchered or helped butcher had this crust, and everyone I know is familiar with the trimming process.

[Dannybuoy]

One the one or 2 rare occasions I have been to a meat cutter that does wild meat I have seen why meat needs to be trimmed ... ie dirt , blood , s*it , hair and generally disgusting looking carcasses . I suppose that's why most wont hang game in the same cooler with beef ? I was just commenting that I have never had the need to trim and "crusty layer of ? off of any carcass that I have personally skinned ... be it deer . moose , sheep , or beef . To each his own .... there are many different cultures and ways of doing things .... I'll stick with mine .

[CBH]

You've got to be kidding, now. That crust forms after a few short days in cool, dry environments. Everyone knows this. Every deer I have ever butchered or helped butcher had this crust, and everyone I know is familiar with the trimming process.

hare_assassin - I totally agree with you!

Unless Dannybuoy has butchered all 100 deer the day they are harvested, I honestly do not understand how he has never heard of a crust forming on the outside of the animal or have ever had to trim the out layer off. I believe it starts to form overnight!

[adriaticum]

I'd say if all these butchers and supermarkets are selling aged meat and pricing it at a premium, there has to be something to it.

[Dannybuoy]

I'd say if all these butchers and supermarkets are selling aged meat and pricing it at a premium, there has to be something to it.

I agree with that ! I also am pretty sure they don't have to trim hair , mold and a crust ?

[rbest]

hare_assassin - I totally agree with you!

Unless Dannybuoy has butchered all 100 deer the day they are harvested, I honestly do not understand how he has never heard of a crust forming on the outside of the animal or have ever had to trim the out layer off. I believe it starts to form overnight!

I Agree!

Can we see some Photo's of people's deer, who claim they have zero trimming etc? I'm intrigued to see this. Unless you butcher and wet age immediately, then there should have to be some trimming no? Also people who make a stink about a couple hairs here and there on the outside, come on!! lets be productive here. If you are going to say that, lets see some back up on how a few hairs makes a difference in the whole process, from aging to the dinner plate. If your leaving tufts of hair, tarsal glands, mud, blood clots everywhere....... but that's not the case in that photo! That hind looks magical to me!

[rbest]

Here is a Wikipedia quote on Dry Aging

"The process of dry-aging usually also promotes growth of certain fungal (mold) species on the external surface of the meat. This does not cause spoilage, but actually forms an external "crust" on the meat's surface, which is trimmed off when the meat is prepared for cooking. These fungal species complement the natural enzymes in the beef by helping to tenderize and increase the flavor of the meat. The genus Thamnidium (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamnidium&action=edit&redlink=1), in particular, is known to produce collagenolytic enzymes which greatly contribute to the tenderness and flavor of dry-aged meat."

and this from a Dry Aging Butcher, Luma

" In the cooler, the mould culture grows evenly throughout the meat. The cuts of meat are kept in the cooler between four and eight weeks, depending on their size and consistency. During this time, the mould culture forms a white coating – the fruiting body – on the surface of the meat. The enzyme of the mould culture changes the taste of the meat and reduces mortis and collagen, which make the meat tough. The mould culture also acts as a sort of regulator in the meat, preventing the spread of undesirable microorganisms."

Pretty interesting stuff!

"

[~T-BONE~]

For those that say aging meat does nothing or is bad for meat.... your wrong... or your butcher wants to get your meat out of his cooler ASAP cause its costing him money to age it there!

This statement holds a lot of truth.. the butchers probably tell a lot of people this to move it quick. Not only does it make there job easier by not having to trim extra, it also makes room for more and the the less trim they chuck the more they can make on sausage.. Seen it more than once! It's win win for them. But as I stated before, "aging is king"

[CSG]

If you want to save money, why not age it in a garage then? Said tongue in cheek. Or is there some scientific reasoning, or food safety reason, why it would work better in a controlled environment?

Since you said there was a point for each animal and each cut of meat, what is the comparison of a veal (about the size of a BT) and a thousand pound cow for aging length? When does the meat quality start to deteriorate? Or is there any way uncontrolled temperature hanging it can ruin the meat? Do they ever partially freeze the meat while hanging it in one of your professionals coolers? How does repeated freezing/thawing overnight in ones garage affect the quality in any way?

All I have access to is a garage down here on the coast, so thats where I age it. For sure aging is best done in a controlled environment, both temp and humidity. When I age in a place that fluctuates in temp I have to be very aware of the temperature change, if it is fluctuating like crazy then I have no other option but to age it less. Someone mentioned a tool earlier in this thread that you attach to your meat at slaughter, this tool will track the temperature fluctuations it goes through from time of slaughter to butcher. It has some sort of scale that will tell you when to butcher based on the time and temps it has gone through. Cant remember the name of the things but they sell them at Italian Sporting goods.

As for the veal, you have to remember what aging is trying to do, it imparts flavor from the bacteria, concentrates flavor from losing moisture and the enzymes are breaking down connective tissue and tenderizing the meat. I dont know a ton about aging veal but if your talking about Bob veal that is slaughtered sometimes only a couple days after birth, there is no reason to tenderize it cause it barely walked. I am guessing on this part but, I would assume if a customer is ordering veal (which is usually the color of pork because the muscles barely get worked) then they are not looking for the big flavors of a dry aged beef steak.

So the size of the animal has no bearing on how long a piece of meat is aged for. What would determine how long to age something for is the age of the animal, origins (wild vs domestic) and your preference for flavor. When I was talking about different aging for different cuts I was referring to wet aging of individual steaks (Tenderloins needs less wet aging than sirloins because they are naturally tender). The limiting factor for a butcher is the smaller the cut he is aging, the more wastage he will have. Thats why you never see a tenderloin dry aged for 45 days, the usable part would be size of one kebab


LOL , I wasn't going to mention that but yuck .... its not the differences in opinion about aging the meat But the way some care for it really makes me wonder ... ie mold , hair etc

You are right I didnt do a great job of cleaning the hair off the leg but those 20 hairs will not impart any sort of negative flavor into the meat. I would be way more concerned about piercing something in the guts that spills all over the meat than a couple hairs on a part of the meat I am not using.


that's another issue .. just how do you get that crust ? I haven't ever had to trim a layer ..... mind you I have only cut up or helped with maybe 100 or so deer over the last 30 years which is a lot less than some of you .

Cant believe I am about to explain this one...When something wet hangs out in the open, especially a dry environment, it will lose its moisture through evaporation. That is a 21 day dry aged leg, the outside will get dry and form a crust. That is why the majority of steaks you eat are wet aged in a sealed package, there is no waste and the meat guys profit more.

As for not seeing any crust in 30 years and 100 deer... maybe its because you are very clearly against any sort of dry aging...

For the record, there was no more than 3 square inches of surface area on the entire deer that had mold on it after 21 days

I hope this link works, scroll through the picture set. Check the one on the far right, 60 days and starting to mold slightly

http://www.businessinsider.com/debragga-dry-aged-beef-warehouse-photos-2013-7#here-you-can-see-enormous-pieces-of-meat-at-various-stages-of-dry-aging-the-meat-on-the-far-left-is-just-a-day-old-while-the-meat-on-the-far-right-is-nearly-60-days-old-12

Dannybouy,

I would like to invite you to stop by my place next time you are in Vancouver. I would like to cook you a steak from this years blacktail that was dry aged for 21 days. Part of my job is to eat all over the world at some the best restaurants, I can honestly say that the steaks from this blacktail I cooked up the other night were some of the best game meat I have ever had. This is an honest invitation, I will even open a bottle of wine for you to enjoy with the blacktail


Hope this helped

[Mikey Rafiki]

that's another issue .. just how do you get that crust ? I haven't ever had to trim a layer ..... mind you I have only cut up or helped with maybe 100 or so deer over the last 30 years which is a lot less than some of you .

If you've been lucky enough to skin and butcher all of your animals at your house the same day that's great but many hunters don't have that luxury. If you've ever hung an animal overnight because you're way out at camp it will dry out. If you've ever had to skin, quarter and pack out an animal for several kilometres the outside will dry out. If you've ever killed something in freezing conditions and needed to skin in before the hide freezes to the carcass it will dry out while thawing before you can cut it. It doesn't just come from aging, it's often a result of making sure the hide is off your animal to cool it down or keep it from freezing on before you can get it home and process it.

[Dannybuoy]

CSG : thanks for the offer , interesting about the 60 day old beef ....looks absolutely inedible as it sits but I suppose if I didn't know what I was eating ... it probably would be good ..... tender for sure as it is pretty much decomposed . I believe I stated previously that just because I do it a certain way doesn't mean its the best or the only acceptable way ... but I have never had a "stinky deer " and I have killed them at all times of the legal season . I like to hang a deer about 3 days and the longest has been 7 or 8 days . I always drag the game out whole so I haven't had to deal with dirt ,etc and have a nice clean job at the end. Probably never more than a mile or so on foot but with 2 guys its not that bad and now with quads and winches its never very far .
Mike R :We have hung deer at camp and yes they dry out .... are you telling me that you trim that thin layer of slightly dry meat ?? it cant be more than 1/100 thick , do you trim the whole deer .... ribs and all ?
I also don't eat it practically raw like in rbest photo but I didn't criticise that , I just wouldn't have left all that hair on for the photo ... cuz you know someone is going to say something .....and it wasn't me that started that .

[rbest]

Danny Bouy, when you say "I also don't eat it practically raw like in rbest photo but I didn't criticise that" what do you mean? how do you usually cook your Back Straps or tender roasts? what Temp? well done?? different doneness's and temps that you cook your meat will will have a huge impact on tenderness as well on particular cuts.

FYI, The piece of meat that is sliced in half in the picture was the Back Strap. It was sliced at 135 degrease Fahrenheit(between MR and Med). The reason it may seem to look raw to you, is because of the low temperature it was cooked at "low and slow" This allows the meat to cook even through out. I kept the smoker at 200 Degrease Fahrenheit through the whole cooking process. The higher heat the more moisture loss you will get during the cooking. When you see roasts that have been cooked at a high temperature the whole time, similar to steak cooking, all of the outside will be more well done, with the desired doneness just near the middle. In the industry, when cooking Dry Heat Roasts you start at a very high heat to caramelize the outside of the meat for flavor and to sear in the juices. Then you turn your temp way low, and cook slowly until desired temp. Say you were looking for a Medium Rare roast, you would pull it out when the internal temp was 125 or so, and cover with foil to rest for 15-20 mins. This allows all of the juices to absorb back into the meat, so you don't lose all of the juices when you cut it. By the time the 15-20 mins has passed, the carry over cooking will have brought your roast up to Med Rare. In the smoker, the hot smoke acts as a sear, so that is why the outside is a desired caramelization.

If you had a setting of 135 degrease Fahrenheit on your oven at home, and you put a whole roast in there, it would cook the whole roast to a maximum of 135! so the whole roast would be med rare! If you have ever heard of Sous-Vide? It is essentially doing just that, except in water. You take your vacuum packed meat you place in a controlled water temp, and cook for a very long time, until the meat reaches the desired temp. It has been cooked in its own juices and is crazy delicious and extremely tender. Unfortunately a Sous-Vide machine is really expensive.....

[hare_assassin]

Just as the aging debate has shown you guys to be "worlds apart" I suspect that your culinary experiences are thus.

[Dannybuoy]

Like I have said more than once in this thread , there is more than one way cook , age and care for game (or otherwise) meat . The right way is however the person likes it . Like beauty is in the eye of the beholder . I usually make T-bone steaks or chops out from the backstraps and I like mine med-rare , I believe that would be somewhat higher internal temp than 135 . I have tried beef anywhere from blue-rare to well done and really don't find the rarer meat to be very good but that doesn't mean that someone else doesn't .Its about personal taste and learned techniques .And No I haven't heard of Sous-vide.
You will have to wait until next year for pics of deer hanging , I normally don't take any of that but I will try to remember . I only had a little 4 point whitey this year as we got the cow/calf moose draw so my meat supply is doing ok . My partners and I decided to take our moose to a meat cutter this year as it was difficult to arrange times when we could all get time off to cut and wrap 2 moose . We did hang it in a garage for 10 -12 days though and it didn't look any different from day 1 to 12 .

[Dannybuoy]

Just as the aging debate has shown you guys to be "worlds apart" I suspect that your culinary experiences are thus.
Couldn't agree more ! Although I do agree that aging will improve tenderness its more of a visual thing and that under less than ideal conditions the potential for food poisoning is a real possibility .

[rbest]

Like I have said more than once in this thread , there is more than one way cook , age and care for game (or otherwise) meat . The right way is however the person likes it . Like beauty is in the eye of the beholder . I usually make T-bone steaks or chops out from the backstraps and I like mine med-rare , I believe that would be somewhat higher internal temp than 135 . I have tried beef anywhere from blue-rare to well done and really don't find the rarer meat to be very good but that doesn't mean that someone else doesn't .Its about personal taste and learned techniques .And No I haven't heard of Sous-vide.
You will have to wait until next year for pics of deer hanging , I normally don't take any of that but I will try to remember . I only had a little 4 point whitey this year as we got the cow/calf moose draw so my meat supply is doing ok . My partners and I decided to take our moose to a meat cutter this year as it was difficult to arrange times when we could all get time off to cut and wrap 2 moose . We did hang it in a garage for 10 -12 days though and it didn't look any different from day 1 to 12 .

Some people's views on Temp are different. Often people eating at one of my restaurants have different expectations of doneness, and not much good arguing with a customer, unless you want to decrease your business. The ranges I was trained on are below, but they do vary a little depending on Chefs and training standards. I believe the USDA has a higher standard for MR and Med closer to 140-145 for MR, and 150 for Med









Blue

46–49 °C
115–120 °F



Rare

52–55 °C
125–130 °F



Medium rare

55–60 °C
130–140 °F



Medium

60–65 °C
140–150 °F



Medium well

65–69 °C
150–155 °F



Well done

71–100 °C
160–212 °F










The interior of a cut of meat will still increase in temperature 3–5 °C (5–10 °F) after it is removed from an oven or other heat source.

[hare_assassin]

I believe the USDA has a higher standard for MR and Med closer to 140-145 for MR, and 150 for Med I believe you are correct. I have a remote-probe electronic meat thermometer that I use and it calls 145 "Medium Rare". I suspect it is based on the USDA standard.

[broke]

I have a question about aging - is it the physical hanging of teh muscle on the bone that helps to break down the meat, or just the time involved?

My dad got a bull moose last year and as he was only up for a few days after he shot it, we only let it hang for 5 days (I didn't want to let it hang longer and have to process the whole animal myslef).

I was wondering if we had butchered the animal and put the cuts we wanted for steaks and roasts (loins and hinds) in cheese cloth and let them hang if it would do the same as if the whole hind were hung on the bone? This would allow us to grind burger and make sausages right away and finish cutting and wrapping the steaks/roasts later on. Would hanging steak/roasts in cheese cloth work, or not?

Any comments? Thanks.

[dingdongdenny]

good reading guy's.I generally like to hang a week if possible, but on the island the temp is some times a little to warm for that.

[Darksith]

that's another issue .. just how do you get that crust ? I haven't ever had to trim a layer ..... mind you I have only cut up or helped with maybe 100 or so deer over the last 30 years which is a lot less than some of you .

lol, if you have done it so much, then you should be very familiar with the 2nd skin it is called. Something is starting to get fishy here, and it seems to be your knowledge of butchering


One the one or 2 rare occasions I have been to a meat cutter that does wild meat I have seen why meat needs to be trimmed ... ie dirt , blood , s*it , hair and generally disgusting looking carcasses . I suppose that's why most wont hang game in the same cooler with beef ? I was just commenting that I have never had the need to trim and "crusty layer of ? off of any carcass that I have personally skinned ... be it deer . moose , sheep , or beef . To each his own .... there are many different cultures and ways of doing things .... I'll stick with mine .

you have never removed the 2nd skin off a steak or cut or roast after it hung for 8 days? Thats a chewy bite for sure. The only time you don't get 2nd skin forming is when the animal is hung at proper temps and humidity...in a controlled environment. A garage or shed simply won't have the right humidity to keep the outter layer from drying out. But then again, when in the bush or in a garage, that 2nd skin actually protects the inner meat.

[Dannybuoy]

lol, if you have done it so much, then you should be very familiar with the 2nd skin it is called. Something is starting to get fishy here, and it seems to be your knowledge of butchering

you have never removed the 2nd skin off a steak or cut or roast after it hung for 8 days? Thats a chewy bite for sure. The only time you don't get 2nd skin forming is when the animal is hung at proper temps and humidity...in a controlled environment. A garage or shed simply won't have the right humidity to keep the outter layer from drying out. But then again, when in the bush or in a garage, that 2nd skin actually protects the inner meat.

Considering my father was a gov meat inspector for close to 20 years and my fatherinlaw was a butcher and probably killed more animals in his almost 80 years( he lived into his 90's) of meat cutting /slaughtering than you have even seen ( I helped and learned about how and what to do from them ).... I guess we just do things different in the North Okanagan eh ? Like I said it may not be the best way but its our way ! You do as you please. I asked questions because I didn't know the answer ...that's called learning .... try it .

[two-feet]

I cut our moose this year with a guy that is a ticketed butcher as well as a moose guide up in spatzizi. His thoughts were a bit different than what I had learned growing up but interesting none the less. He figured:

-keep your animal as clean as possible but if a little bush, grass gets on the outside it is not a big deal as it will be cut off with the crust anyhow.
-before hanging remove the tenderloins, ribs and backstraps as they will suffer too much shrinkage. (I really like my T-bones so not sure about this one)
-depending on the cut and on how you cook it there is no need to trim all of the crust as it will reconstitute. I tried this with some ribs and braised them with a chocolate porter and the crust indeed reconstituted and you could not tell the difference.

[the hopper]

Oh man, now I'm even more excited for the eating of my delicious deers! I just butchered one last night that looked like csg's I think it was up 12 days, I had the same thought running through my head,
" I could be doing this with a butter knife!" damn he's gonna be good, but first I have to finish the last few bits of last years deer... :(
also I have been eating the tenderloins within a 24 hrs normally I think, maybe a bit longer, but rigor Mortis Has never been an issue they are always super soft, you could eat them with a spoon.
I might have to let them sit a bit more now haha.. I'll be able to eat them with a blunt spoon excellent!

[sawmill]

Around here deer freeze solid in two days in Nov. in my unheated garage.I hang until the body cools out nice and butcher.Boneless too,not a big fan of cleaning my bandsaw for 3 hours after every critter.That`s why I sold it last week.Rather wash some knives than strip the damn saw down.

[BiG Boar]

Next time someone can debone and cut and wrap with a butter knife video it. Cause I call Bull Shite!

[the hopper]

Ha, I'll probably end up going viral I can see it now...

"stupid man cuts himself with butter knife"

Or I'll be on the PETA site, "deer has last laugh as hunter cuts finger off with butter knife"

Maybe next year..