Lead vs. Steel??

[field marshal]

Let's put the constant moaning about lead vs. steel to bed!! I've been reading a lot of garbage about how much better the old days
were when lead was used instead of steel. I just read about someone walking the foreshore and his dog was finding other peoples cripples?? Well I can tell you , when we used to reload our own lead shot we would only shoot on opening morning for ducks.
In the 50's and 60's there were no geese here, so it was ducks only. The season always opened on Thanksgiving weekend.

Thanksgiving Monday was always spent at Cowichan Bay picking up hunters empty hulls for reloading.

We always took the dogs and I don't recall any year we didn't come home with a limit of other shooters cripples!!!!:(

The wounding, and crippling of birds has always been with us!! A lot of people have a rather skewed idea of effective range of their
scatterguns!!!

Many of the new shooters think their 3 1\2" Roman Candles are Howitzers that can kill birds at extreme range.

I teach my grandsons to limit shots to reasonable range and therefore I would put them up against anyone when it comes to clean kills and good hunting ethics!!

In summary, as has been said I don't know how many times???? KNOW YOUR SHOTGUN"S EFFECTIVE RANGE.
DECOY BIRDS IN CLOSE, AND USE A GOOD RETRIEVER!!!!! JEEZE?? IT ISN"T ROCKET SCIENCE!!!:confused:

Cheers----Field Marshal.

[Big Lew]

I most heartily agree! Although I haven't done any 'shotgunning' for birds since the lead ban, I'm looking forward to it again now that I have a very promising young retriever in the wings. I thoroughly enjoyed duck and goose hunting with my former retrievers. What I didn't enjoy was the competitive sky busting, or the setting up beside my decoy sets by other hunters in the Fraser Valley. I also gleaned a lot of dead or wounded birds by poking along the edges of ponds etc. with my dog, especially during the weekends.

[Foxton Gundogs]

OK Tony I gotta speak up here my friend. pretty sure it is was my post that you mention and it was made not in a comparison of lead and steel(even though I believe steel is inferior to lead for killing power.) but in comment to Yammy's experience of his dog bringing a cripple to bag. If anything it was more aimed at those who don't see the great asset of a good retriever as you stated. Yes there have always been cripples but I think mostly due to the fact again as you stated that some shooters have no clue on the effectiveness of their shotguns range and pattern. Sky busters always have been there, some of us have adapted to the killing power of steel while others have not ant then there is the generation who have never known lead who still blast away at "dots' in the sky. Your closing statement says it all my friend
In summary, as has been said I don't know how many times????
KNOW YOUR SHOTGUN"S EFFECTIVE RANGE. DECOY BIRDS IN CLOSE, AND USE A GOOD RETRIEVER!!!!! JEEZE?? IT ISN"T ROCKET SCIENCE!!!:confused:

[Farmer]

Waterfowlers also need to watch the birds as they fly away. Many times you will see a duck glide down a hundred or more yards away. Some of these will be dead when recovered but some are just hit enough that once down, they may not be able to lift off again.
I also recall taking the dogs down along the river and recovering cripples when we were too young to carry a shotgun.

[longshot]

Im 19 so I've only dealt with steel haha. I love how some hunters think 3.5" kill farther than a 2.75".. I have shot 3.5" (rather pointless IMO lol), and the only thing the longer shell does is put more pellets on target at the same range as the shorter one. Both will have the same pellet killing power at the same range. My little sister's 2.75" 20 gauge kills just as good as my 3" 12 gauge.. only difference is I can almost miss but still kill because of the bigger spread lol!

[Fella]

On the pond I hunt in with my buddies we've all agreed not to shoot until the landing gear is down and the birds are just high enough that if you held your shotgun straight up they would graze the muzzle. The way our blinds are set up puts this distance at no more than about 20-30 feet out. We've never had a cripple since we instituted that rule.

[lorneparker1]

On the pond I hunt in with my buddies we've all agreed not to shoot until the landing gear is down and the birds are just high enough that if you held your shotgun straight up they would graze the muzzle. The way our blinds are set up puts this distance at no more than about 20-30 feet out. We've never had a cripple since we instituted that rule.

Once you have graduated to the "we only shoot once they have landed" technique, you have arrived!

[Bighorn hunter]

all i gotta say is it's alot easier on the teeth biting into lead than steel!

[Fella]

Once you have graduated to the "we only shoot once they have landed" technique, you have arrived!

Ya were all new so not sure if what we're doing is poor etiquette or not. We've been learning as we go so far, at the beginning there were a few that we winged that crawled into the underbrush before we could get to them so we figured maybe our shots were too long.

[lorneparker1]

Ya were all new so not sure if what we're doing is poor etiquette or not. We've been learning as we go so far, at the beginning there were a few that we winged that crawled into the underbrush before we could get to them so we figured maybe our shots were too long.

Etiquette schetiqutte. You are trying to kill birds as humanely as possible with no cripples. Good on yah sir!

[huckle buck]

some dogs are amazing at finding cripples

[Fella]

And some run away as soon as you pull out your shotgun.

[Crazy_Farmer]

Having shot lead in Mexico and shooting steel here. The faster steel is close to being an equalizer but in the end lead not only hits harder while providing more pellets on target since you can use smaller shot.

If I could use lead 4s and 6s I'd be happy. But I've made some good shots with steel lately so can't complain really.

tony this poor drake was shot with a 3" #2 I believe.... Not a blended expert tho

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f52/Crazy_Farmer/2013/A3E47D8F-D9F8-44B8-9E98-9444E68A05C6.jpg (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/Crazy_Farmer/media/2013/A3E47D8F-D9F8-44B8-9E98-9444E68A05C6.jpg.html)

[Sofa King]

I remember my first time shooting at a goose.
it was very early nineties, outside of Kamloops.
here they came in, we were waiting, they did a pass over and "boom, boom, boom" and they just kept flying.
they were nowhere near low enough to even get near them.
guess I should have paid more attention when dad took us out in the dark in Saskatchewan, to the holes they had dug the day before, and we watched the sky lighten with the sun coming up only to darken with the swarms of geese coming in.

[Foxton Gundogs]

And some run away as soon as you pull out your shotgun.


Only if they are bot started right, it's the breeder/owner/trainers fault not the dogs

[Fella]

Ya my buddies poor sharpei was introduced a little too quickly to the ol' 12 ga.

[Big Lew]

My son and I came upon a Chesapeake cowering in a thicket alongside a march above Tunkwa Lake many years ago. There was absolutely no one around so we spent a great deal of time coaxing it out. Once we were able to make him feel comfortable, he was all over us with happiness that he had found some friendly people. On a hunch we took him down to Tunkwa Lake and found the drunken owner. After hearing the complete story from the owner's friends, we were very sorry we handed the dog back to him. Apparently he had bought the dog knowing that it had no training, and then took it out hunting expecting it to retrieve. As soon as the guns went off, the dog ran off. The man had absolutely no patience and began bellowing and screaming at the dog to come back. He then threatened to shoot it, but the others interfered so he just left it in the march miles from camp. We had that dog in our vehicle for a couple of hours and I was convinced that he would have at least made a good companion if someone cared.

[Fella]

Yep we leave the poor guy at the house now. Funny, he's fine when we take him bear hunting, the rifles don't bother him at all, but as soon as a black shotgun comes out he bolts.

[Kudu]

http://youtu.be/Apd_B8q79dw

[Foxton Gundogs]

Probably would have had better results with the 3" if she had hit the jug dead centre like with the 3.5 instead of the bottom left corner. Shot a deer yesterday in the head at 15 yds with 3" 000 lets just say it had to be a "closed casket funeral"

[Dutch]

Picking up cripples has not changed much in my judgement. Back in the "lead" days used to go to the marsh after opening day 13 was the most my dog ever picked up in 2 hours. Still have guys without dogs and some who stretch it a bit, all part of the game ...

[Mulehahn]

Never had the chance to shoot lead, but there is no denying 2 similar objects traveling at the the same speed; the one with more density hits harder. But saying that, it is a mute point, you can't use lead! Learn to shoot with what you are allowed. Quite simple. My only real issue with this debate is the insistence of a retriever. Every hunter NEEDS to have a means of retrieving the birds but that could be a wading, a boat or if in a field just walking to get them. I enjoy waterfowl hunting, but there so to work there is no way I can have a dog, and that being said if I could there are other breeds I would prefer over a duck dog.