Maximizing Penetration

[Bow Walker]

There are, generally speaking, two ways to get the most kinetic energy out of a given set up. One is to dial up the draw weight, and the other is to use a heavier missile. Goes for crossbows as well as any other type of bow.

I'm not a fan of arbitrarily screwing down the limb bolts just to get more penetration into larger game animals. This will work - to some extent - but it puts extra strain on muscles and makes the bow much more difficult to draw back on those colder days when the big ones are out roaming around looking for "love". I' d much rather investigate the use of heavier arrows/bolts to do the penetration job.

Todays arrow choices are such that there are a lot of choices in either aluminium, carbon, or A/C shafts to meet our needs. Carbons can be had that exceed 9 or 9.2 grains-per-inch and coupled with a "cut-on-contact" broadhead, these choices will give you the needed penetration.

A/C shafts like the Full Metal Jacket, and GT's Big Game exceed the 9.5 gpi range (they get into the 11 gpi area) provide a definite punch when you are looking to maximize penetration. Properly placed, most arrows will "blow" right through a deer, an elk, a bear, and even moose.

Just some idle thoughts from an idle mind.

[Franko Manini]

Maybe if Hermit had read this post he wouldn't need the EXTENSION to his DOINKER!!!!

Maximizing Penetration... good one! For I minute there I thought I was on the wrong forum!

[The Hermit]

snicker...

[willyqbc]

There are, generally speaking, two ways to get the most kinetic energy out of a given set up. One is to dial up the draw weight, and the other is to use a heavier missile

I think its important to note that there is a point where the KE is maximized in realtion to arrow weight/arrow speed. Speed the arrow up by using to light an arrow and the KE will actually go down. Same is true if you slow the bow down too much with too heavy an arrow...you have to find a happy medium to maximize KE. Now that is not the only thing you can do to aid in penetration. Some other things to consider to maximize PENETRATION:

assuming the bow is properly tuned and shooting well

- Cut on contact heads will generally penetrate better than a mechanical
- a long narrow broadhead will generally penetrate better than a short wide one...but you do give up some cutting surface so thats a trade-off you will have to choose for yourself
- a slim arrow shaft will penetrate better than a thicker one as it has less surface area to create friction upon entry(minimal difference)
- a stiffer arrow will easily out penetrate one that is too soft of a spine. Reason for this is if the arrow is flexing at the point of impact it will lose energy, and the softer spine will flex much more at impact than the stiff one....there was a great video somewhere that showed this very well with slow motion video, the result was quite dramatic. This is why I shoot one spine up on my hunting bows.

Just some things to ponder
Chris

[Bow Walker]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_3_208.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYJOCA) Thanks Chris, saves me a lot more typing.

[willyqbc]

no problem BW...I live to serve!:lol:

Chris

[Eagle1]

{a slim arrow shaft will penetrate better than a thicker one as it has less surface area to create friction upon entry(minimal difference)

Just my $0,05 worth , I think that the fat shaft/ thin shaft thing is just marketing,hype by the arrow companys to sell different arrows every year. you'll notice a few years ago a big shaft 2613 was the one to have now it's slim shafts, ST Axis, super slims. If you have a good broadhead { 3 blade }sharp 2 blade, it will cut a big hole, that can't close up{ the broadhead hole is bigger than the arrow }and there is no friction on the shaft, and even if there was, blood is very slick on the shaft, just like an oil, it'll slide on thru with little or no friction. In my 30 + years bowhunting I never had a problem with the shaft dia.

Also at a certian point, speed overtakes mass, general phyisics.

[interceptor]

G' Day Lads,

This my first post so be gentle with me :lol:

While I have never been to BC, I have hunted some fair bruisers over here in Australia and I have been in on a few hunts with other lads on Buffalo. These are one of (if not the) toughest critters around. Between me and a small group of mates we have tried arrows from 450 grains right up to over 800 grains, all out of current model top line compounds.

IMHO there are two things that make for good penetration.

1, The broad head has to be shaving sharp, not just sharp but SHAVING sharp. If the hairs on your forearm don't run away from blade then it ain't sharp.

2, Arrow flight, if your arrow flies like a dog and wags all the way to the vital zone you will lose heaps of penetration. When you let them go you should see nothing but the nock of your arrow disappearing into the kill zone.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/interceptor429/hunting%20pics/FirstBuffTrip005.jpg

At my first arrow he was quartering away hard and my arrow buried all the way, the broad head stopped on the far side shoulder. My finishing shot went in between the shoulder blades and the BH came out around 4 inches between the front legs (he was laying in the shade feeling the effects of my first arrow) he stood at the shot then dropped for the count after eye ballin me for a few seconds.

I shoot a Mathews Switchback, 73#, 29" draw and my arrows weigh around 470 grains.

Cheers Noel

[Bow Walker]

Welcome to the site interceptor. BTW does your choice of name have anything to do with the Mad Max movies?

That is one fine trophy you have there Noel! Do you guys eat those buffalo or are they not good for the Bar-be? Apparently Cape buffalo have a tough hide to penetrate. It looks like your setup works very well.

You neglected to mention the type of broadhead with which you downed that bad boy. I understand the German Kinetics Silver Flame type of broadhead is fairly popular 'down under' - was it one of those?

[Elkhound]

Welcome to the site interceptor. BTW does your choice of name have anything to do with the Mad Max movies?



Welcome.......and I too was wondering this.:lol: Good chice in movies BW

[Bow Walker]

Welcome.......and I too was wondering this.:lol: Good chice in movies BW

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_2.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYJOCA)OH MY GOD!!! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_213.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYJOCA)

HE ACTUALLY HAD SOMETHING NICE TO SAY!!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_67.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYJOCA)

[Elkhound]

Hey. I always say something nice.:lol:

[interceptor]

G' Day Lads,

BW, thanks for the kind words on my buff, yeah they BBQ up great and also make good jerky, the hide on these guys can be a couple of inches thick and they have a massive bone structure including super heavy duty ribs that don't mind slowing an arrow right down:sad: . I have not used the GK gear I always use Ozzie gear if it will do the job and we have several broad head makers here and most of them make great broad heads

Yeah, I grew up with Mad Max and 2 door Hardtop Falcons (that is the car the THE Interceptor is based on). I have owned a few:cool:

As far as Broad heads go I like to keep it simple, I don't really think that the brand of broad head is as critical as the sharpness and flight characteristics. The BEST broad head in the world is worth zip if it is not shaving sharp and does not fly well. Having said that I use a simple fixed 2 blader made here in Australia called the Outback Supreme, Woody knocks them up in his shed and he is a top bloke to boot.

http://users.ncable.net.au/~woody/introduction_page.htm

These are simple (by North American standards). But I can garrantee that they fly like an absolute demon, sharpen to a super scary sharp edge and the effects are devastating to say the lest, I dropped a fully grown Scrub Bull last year, one arrow from 40 yards quartering away hard, he stumbled less than 15 paces and was dead within 40 to 60 seconds, definately the best bow kill that I have ever witnessed.

I can group these Supremes into around 4 to 6 inches all day at 60 yards even in windy conditions.

When I move to BC I will be bringing a heap with me as they really do the job for me and I like the KISS idea (keep it simple stupid) :wink:

Cheers Noel

[Bow Walker]

Those heads look lethal to say the least. Having just 2 blades like that will definitely help the penetration - especially when the heads are so sharp.

I bookmarked the website for later perusal - at a quick glance it looks really interesting.

Are you considering a move to BC?

[Sideofabarn]

How many of us expats do you want Bowwalker? Welcome interceptor, from an expat from Adelaide. Are you really thinking of moving here? I live in Prince George, which is about a 9-10 hour drive north from Vancouver.

[Bow Walker]

How many of us expats do you want Bowwalker? Welcome interceptor, from an expat from Adelaide. Are you really thinking of moving here? I live in Prince George, which is about a 9-10 hour drive north from Vancouver.
I always wondered about your avatar...........now I know.:lol:

[interceptor]

BW and Sideof,

We are already booked to fly over in June for a 3 week reccie, we are going to hire an RV and cruise around, I have also spoken to a company re a job. So far it is ALL GOOD.

Sideof, I thought you were a Kiwi :o

If it all goes to plan I hope to be back over there early next year to live, maybe in the Kootenay area (Castlegar).

Cheers Noel

[Sideofabarn]

A word to the wise interceptor. If someone here mistakes your accent for kiwi, let it go, unless you can tell the difference in an accent between BC and Washington. I can't count the number of people who are reluctant to say anything because they met an australian, and asked if they were from NZ, with the response being a huffy I'M AUSTRALIAN. Nothing bugs me more than Australian arrogance... Leave the attitude at home and you'll do fine here.

[Caveman]

Re: Maximizing Penetration

Stand a little closer :lol: :lol: Come on someone had to say it

[Coyote]

Try this website re penetration. It's a bit of reading but it's an eyeopener. And yes, arrow diameter is important

http://www.ubbc.ca/resources/documents/index.htm

[The Hermit]

Hey interceptor... I had written Aussieland as a hunting destination cause I thought you blokes couldn't own guns. Now that I'm getting into archery your post puts a new light on the subject! Maybe we should talk about a house exchange for a month!!

[interceptor]

That could work Hermit,

Although, I was led to believe that a non - resident can not hunt in BC with out using a registered guide?

Sideof,

I can tell you that it takes alot more than being mistaken for a Kiwi to up set this little black duck :).

Mate I have been called everything from Ozzie, Kiwi, Italian, American and Canadian, just to name a few.

I once worked for a company for 6 years before I found out who the young American lad in the paint shop was,,,,,,,,,,,,ME :lol:

Cheers Noel

[Sideofabarn]

Good to hear old boy... So where in BC are you thinking of heading on your holidays? You can stay with me if you promise to bring a big can of milo and a stack of Tooheys old :lol: which reminds me, where in Oz are you from?

[interceptor]

Sideof,

Our plan is to spend a few days in Vancouver than drive (in a hire RV) accross to Castlegar (should take a couple of days) spend anything upto a week there depending on how I go with my job meeting/interview/discussion, then we have another 10 days or so to cruise around before heading back to Vancouver by the end of June.

I hope you are not telling me that I can not buy MILO over there, CRIKEY now I will never get the missus to move there :o .

I don't think I could fit a slab into my bag but a can of Milo might be do-able!

I live in a place called Nhulunbuy, it is on the Gove Pennisula in Eastern Arnhemland of the Northern Territory, there is nothing here but a bauxite mine and alumina refinery (Alcan Gove) plus the small community.

http://www.alcangove.com.au/home/default.asp

Of course there is great beaches, great fishing, excellent hunting for Buffalo, Pigs, Scrub Bulls, Donkey's. Did I mention this place is Great :lol: .

Cheers Noel

[Sideofabarn]

Ok so let me get this straight... You live in NT and you're looking at moving to Canada? Tired of heat? Man, people thought I was crazy. And no, you can't buy Milo here, although you can order it online along with other "homesick australian" goodies, such as cherry ripes, nutri grain and the national byproduct- vegemite. You used to be able to buy it here, but not any more. Last place I saw it was Seattle. What sort of job are you applying for, and is it contract or permanent?

[interceptor]

Yeah it is a little warm here, even at 3am in the morning it is 26C to 28C deg at this time of year, but I have always wanted to live in a place like BC and now is a good time for us to make it happen, too many people die with out having a shot at their dreams and I don't plan to be one of them.

That is good news on the "home sick Australian goodies" my missus will be rapt.

I have spoken with an Industrial Painting Contractor, Blasting and Painting is what I know, I hope to be able to secure a permanent job as a Supervisor or Project Manager.

Cheers Noel

[Sideofabarn]

I hear you on the following dreams part. If you plan on doing the immigration thing, make sure you get fingerprints done from the cops in Oz, cause you'll need them, in addition to prints from the RCMP once you've been here more than 6 months. Be warned, once you've lived here a while, you might never go back... I've been here nearly 7 yrs, and have no intention of returning to Oz

[interceptor]

Be warned, once you've lived here a while, you might never go back... I've been here nearly 7 yrs, and have no intention of returning to Oz

That is what I am hoping, I have been researching this idea for several months now and everything just keeps getting better and better. I don't think you guys will be able to get rid of me if you tried :) .

Cheers Noel

[Tinney]

It's an invasion! I see you managed to stumble out of the Wintergarden :)

[Sideofabarn]

Yeah, I went to hand in an assignment, but the guy disappeared on me, so I guess now I'll have to email it to him. Not a happy boy about it. And yep it IS an invasion, soon you'll have to observe anzac day, and the national food will change from kraft dinner to vegemite on toast. And you won't be able to say BLOODY aussie morons, no, it will be snow challenged persons, or winter impaired






edited by: The Cuss Cop8)

[Tinney]

Dang! Fast Cuss Cop! :lol: You on the ball BW 8)

[interceptor]

Yeah that is right,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Never mess with an Aussie about ANZAC Day. Crikey! that is a recipe for pain or atleast a bloody good serve anyway :smile: .

I think I will go with "winter impaired persons", altough I don't don't for a second that we will have a lot to learn. Like plugging the car in at night to keep it warm?

That could almost be a thread by it self,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Things an Aussie needs to know about life in BC :smile:

Cheers Noel

[Sideofabarn]

Sorry Bowwalker, forgot I was in God Fearin' north america there for a moment...:wink:

[Sideofabarn]

You only need to plug in your car if you live waaaaay north. Where you'll be a fill of 0w30 oil for the winter will be fine. I think plugging in cars is more of a habit here

[interceptor]

So it is not THAT cold there then, as in below 0 most of the year!

BBBBRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Cheers Noel

[Sideofabarn]

Well, certainly expect it to be below 0 for a fair chunk of the year, say between November through early March. Or April as is the case up here right now

[interceptor]

That is about what I figured, mind you I have not spent much time at or below zero :)

Cheers Noel

P.S. I just realised we have completely and totally hijacked this thread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:redface:

Sorry Lads.:-(

[Bow Walker]

That's OK, we've been getting to know you a bit better.

I think you'll find Castlegar will be a lot like PG with regard to weather. Definite seasons up there, and usually lots of snow in the winter (winters can run from early Nov. right through to late May).

Don't forget to get some longies or you'll find things a bit short in the cold weather season(s).

[Sideofabarn]

Never mind about the thread, I can't remember the last time one didn't take a turn. Since I'm guessing there isn't much of a market for winter clothing in Darwin, wait till you get here to buy anything. Make sure the gloves you get are leather. I found that wool gloves are fine until the wind blows through them, and it will... so leather gloves with a thinsulate lining will be the ticket. Ice fishing- a Canadian phrase which means drunk outside in January. Bring rum, and I suppose you could also pack a fishing rod along

[interceptor]

BW,


I think you'll find Castlegar will be a lot like PG with regard to weather.

Not sure what you mean by "PG"?


Ice fishing- a Canadian phrase which means drunk outside in January. Bring rum, and I suppose you could also pack a fishing rod along

That sounds a lot like fishing / camping in the Top End anytime during the Dry, speaking of rum can you buy Bundaberg Rum over there. This will almost be a deal breaker, I can do with out the wifes Milo but no Bundy would be BAD.

Cheers Noel

[Sideofabarn]

Well I hope you're ready for some bad news then... I haven't seen it here. However, there is a lot of dark rum, not that I ever drank Bundy to compare. Anyway it'll be a chance to get hooked on something new, like Crown Royal...
PG refers to Prince George, a town in the middle of the province. Everyone in the lower mainland think it's the end of the earth, and refer to it as northern BC, kinda like calling Alice Springs northern Australia.

[interceptor]

Thanks for the tip Sideof,

I guess I will just have to try something new eh, dark rum,,,,,,,
mmmmmmmmmmm:)

PG Ok glad I got that sorted, I thought I may have missed something :lol: .

Cheers Noel

[Tuffcity]

can you buy Bundaberg Rum over there

Yes you can! But places are limited and it's usually only brought in if you speak nicely to the liquor store ordering person. :)

Been Bundy-ed a time or 2 in BC. :)

RC

[J_T]

Raised my kids on Lambs Navy Rum. They still say you can't beat it.:lol:

I grew up near Castlegar. Presently live 2 hours away. It doesn't get that cold. -5 (celsius) is cold and it's only for short spells. Summer will see temperatures push +34 easily. Lots of outdoor pools in backyards. Good fishing on the larger lakes nearby. Snow is certainly gone there now, people have raked the lawn, and pruned the roses. Come on, it's April. Snow is gone in town by March.

The hunting around there is a bit restrictive though. A lot of Limited Entry hunting (lottery system) compared to other locations. Depends what you want to hunt. I have lots of family that live there and they often commute to hunt elsewhere where more opportunity presents itself.

JT

[interceptor]

RC,

Thanks for the tip on the Bundy.

JT,

The temps sound just right for me to ease into life in BC, a little concerned about the LEH idea though, but I will check it out when we come over in June.

Cheers Noel

[J_T]

Noel, here is a link to last years regulations for Region 4. You'll see Castlegar marked on there. Your home turf is Management Units 4-08, 09, 15- 16

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wild/documents/region_4.pdf

In consideration of my previous post, keep in mind Region 8 is right next door.

[interceptor]

Thanks for the link JT,

I have already spent hours reading as much info from that site as my head will allow :) plus I find it hard to really understand it all when I am reading it off the screen as apposed to reading a book :| . I plan to buy a copy of the synopsis when we are there in June. I am at the stage now where I think I need hands on learning. Alas I have a plan 8-) .

I believe that I will not be able to hunt as a permenant resident for the first 12 months anyway, so I hope to be able to do plenty of scouting / trecking and with a little luck tag along on a few hunts as a camera man / sherpa :) so that I can learn the regs and the Canadian way first hand.

Cheers Noel

[bochunk2000]

I plan to buy a copy of the synopsis when we are there in June

They are free.8) You can pick one up at any store that sells licences.
Steve.

[interceptor]

Thanks Steve,

I will grab a copy on the first day of our trip, plenty of reading material while the missus is driving.

Cheers Noel

[Wildfoot]

they sell milo all over bc :)

[The Hermit]

Mate you won't be reading the regs while the War Department is driving... the scenery here is too much to miss! PM me with your address and I'll put one in the post for you.

[interceptor]

G' Day Lads,

Wildfoot, that is great news,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the cook WILL be pleased :lol:

Hermit, Thanks mate that would be excellent, I will send a PM directly.

Cheers Noel

[Sideofabarn]

OK the milo issue... It's made in Jamaica and tastes terrible. Bring it from OZ or get care packages sent to you from family etc. Take it from a milo junkie, it ain't worth it.

[interceptor]

Sideo,

Thanks for the tip, Jamaician Milo,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what next