B.C. study to probe mystery of dying moose

[GoatGuy]

B.C. study to probe mystery of dying moose MARK HUME (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/authors/mark-hume)
VANCOUVER — The Globe and Mail
Published Monday, Nov. 04 2013, 8:56 PM EST
Last updated Monday, Nov. 04 2013, 9:13 PM EST



The bodies are so scattered across the Canadian wilderness that they often decay, or are devoured by scavengers, long before wildlife biologists can find them.
Because of that, researchers face a tough challenge trying to piece together clues to what is causing so many North American moose to die. Population numbers are down by 70 per cent in some areas and nobody knows why, although climate change, increased predation and unknown diseases have emerged as possible suspects in the moose mystery.


Wildlife biologists are hoping a major new study being launched in British Columbia this winter – in which 230 moose will be collared and tracked by satellite – will provide vital information on why the big ungulates are perishing. The project will use Global Positioning System technology to track moose over a vast area of the province, with teams ready to respond as soon as a “mortality sensor” sends an alarm.
“The collar will indicate that the moose is down. The collar will say: ‘I am dead,’” said Rodger Stewart, resource management director for B.C.’s Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resources. “We’ll be able to track its location. We’ll be able to arrive there, ideally within 48 hours basically, and we’ll be able to get a hand on what’s happening.” To determine where and why moose are dying, he said, researchers need to get to a body while it is still fresh and perform a necropsy.
There are an estimated 800,000 to 1.2 million moose in North America. About 170,000 live in B.C., more than in any other area. The overall population decline isn’t known, but game surveys show drops of between 20 per cent and 70 per cent in sections of B.C.’s Cariboo region alone.

[GoatGuy]

Mr. Stewart said moose will be tracked in five sprawling regions of B.C., and researchers will respond by helicopter if necessary when a death is signalled. GPS technology allows researchers to get data on collared animals at intervals as frequently as every minute, though daily signals are usually adequate, and to locate them within metres, even in dense bush.
Typically used by biologists to study wildlife movement and habitat use, GPS tracking may now prove most valuable for its ability to signal death. The technique is already in use in Minnesota, where 110 moose have been collared. The moose population in that state has fallen so dramatically – by 70 per cent since 2006 – that all moose hunting has been banned.
Research there has suggested wolf predation is higher than expected, but scientists are still struggling to understand “tip-over events” in which the moose simply lie down and die from unknown causes.
Mr. Stewart said the situation in B.C. is not as stark as in Minnesota, where the population decline is statewide, but the fear is Minnesota is signalling a trend that may soon sweep across the entire range of North American moose. In B.C. and several other provinces, moose are declining in some areas but stable in others, and no clear cause is emerging.
“That’s the frustration at this point – that we cannot point to any particular factor as having a driving influence on the moose population,” Mr. Stewart said. “We’re in circumstances where we have a number of allegations about what’s driving the decline, but there’s no material evidence. And I think from the anecdotes we’re getting … that there are similar issues arising in the moose range across North America.”
Moose populations don’t seem to be dropping in more northerly regions across the continent, however, which has led to speculation that Minnesota is the leading edge of a decline brought on by climate change. But another theory is that moose populations may be naturally falling back after a period of rapid expansion.

[GoatGuy]

“We can make all kinds of speculation about it, but we also have to remind ourselves that the moose appeared on the land base here suddenly, in terms of geologic time anyway, around the time of the First World War,” Mr. Stewart said. “Moose are to some degree strangers in these ecosystems.”
In the Cariboo region of central B.C., for example, moose spread across the landscape only in the past century. “So … is it possible that we’re seeing the edge of some form of natural ecological oscillation?” he asked.
Doug Heard, a wildlife biologist with the province, said researchers have been able to rule out some suspects. There is no correlation between numbers of moose and the amount of forest killed by mountain pine beetles. Hunting pressure has remained relatively unchanged for 30 years and can’t be to blame. There is no sign of disease, so far, but Mr. Heard says researchers seldom find moose that have died in the bush. The GPS study is expected to change that.
“We will get the causes of death – hopefully for all of them,” he said of the moose to be collared. “It seems to be this plethora of causes, [and] possibly climate change has induced stress that may make them more vulnerable. That being said, we don’t really know.”
Ronald Moen, a research associate at the Natural Resources Research Institute at the University of Minnesota, said the problem appears to be bigger than North America. “In Sweden they are seeing similar issues … the question is, how broad is the problem?” he said recently, just before boarding a flight to Europe.
He was on his way to a conference of wildlife scientists from Sweden, the United States, Finland, Norway and Russia who all want to know what’s causing the moose collapse.
Dr. Moen, who has warned that Minnesota could lose its moose by 2020, feels there is a link to climate change. “There’s something going on clearly across the southern edge [of moose range in North America],” he said. “It’s correlated with warmer temperatures.”

[Rackem]

http://www.all-about-moose.com/moose-population-trends.html

was just reading this....

[sawmill]

Eveything cycles.Hazelton area never had moose till the early 1900`s.Up till then it was all mountain caribou.They started to disappear 25 years later and now they are gone.Was also never any whitetail there,now there are lots.Elk too,never was one until about 14 years ago.

[M.Dean]

Well, if the dead Moose count hit's exactly 230 after the MOE collars these Moose, I'd say maybe the stuff there injecting into the Moose to knock them out might be some of the problem! Another reason the Moose could be dieing all over the place could be caused by quite a number of Hunters not using a Winchester 300 Magnum for the Hunting of the said dead Moose in question! So, my solution for solving the problem of the dead Moose is this: Get the Moose off the Drugs they keep shooting them up with,Methadone should work! And secondly, the MOE should buy every Moose Hunter a shiny new 300 Win Mag! Now, how is easy is that, eh???

:smile:

[ruger#1]

Great, Another study. By the time they finish the study all the moose will be gone and some people will be rich.

[stinkyduck]

Lets not forget that wolves love moose more than us!!!!!!

[Looking_4_Jerky]

Great, Another study. By the time they finish the study all the moose will be gone and some people will be rich.

Well by all means, we should probably abort all further study/investigation and just ask Joe Wolfhater, Jack Indianhater or Jane Loggerhater what's happening - they'll give us the real answers, right?

[horshur]

Well by all means, we should probably abort all further study/investigation and just ask Joe Wolfhater, Jack Indianhater or Jane Loggerhater what's happening - they'll give us the real answers, right?

you ever thought that if the bios were any good they should have already had the answer??? what have they been doing last few years?? who raised the alarm???

[bearvalley]

First we study declining Mountain Caribou herds. Now we study "WHY" moose numbers are crashing in some areas.
The big Question is ... What are the logistics in keeping a bunch of government Wildlife Bios on the payroll when there is no wildlife left to "STUDY".
Who wants to take that one on ?

[two-feet]

Why would we want policy determined by science when anecdotes, bigotry and emotion feels so much better?

[Gamebuster]

First we study declining Mountain Caribou herds. Now we study "WHY" moose numbers are crashing in some areas.
The big Question is ... What are the logistics in keeping a bunch of government Wildlife Bios on the payroll when there is no wildlife left to "STUDY".
Who wants to take that one on ?

Maybe somebody should put you in charge so we can all be assured our wildlife will not decline and if it does you'll know exactly the cause and how to deal with it.

[GoatGuy]

First we study declining Mountain Caribou herds. Now we study "WHY" moose numbers are crashing in some areas.
The big Question is ... What are the logistics in keeping a bunch of government Wildlife Bios on the payroll when there is no wildlife left to "STUDY".
Who wants to take that one on ?

I tend to agree with the thought process but I wouldn't blame the bios, it's the politicians who are doing the studying. The politicians know wolf control will stabilize and increase moose populations and I KNOW it has been mentioned.

Same with the caribou, studied them to death, but never willing to go out and follow management recommendations (predator control) in BC.

The willingness to follow through is going to have to be promoted by hunters - it is as simple as that.

[dana]

It is interesting to find out they are declining in Europe as well. I know wolves have been on a comeback there as well. Are they finding heavy predation in their herds as well?

[emerson]

It is interesting to find out they are declining in Europe as well. I know wolves have been on a comeback there as well. Are they finding heavy predation in their herds as well?

My question too.

[Ozone]

I wonder if the natives will get some of the probing also

[Looking_4_Jerky]

First we study declining Mountain Caribou herds. Now we study "WHY" moose numbers are crashing in some areas.
The big Question is ... What are the logistics in keeping a bunch of government Wildlife Bios on the payroll when there is no wildlife left to "STUDY".
Who wants to take that one on ?

Actually, animal scarcity raises profile and is hence more likely to receive attention and funding, I.e. species at risk. You'll tend to notice that healthy, plentiful populations draw little resourcing. Look at the management and resources devoted to mountain caribou in region 3 as opposed to mule deer in the region. The "logistics" have to do with allocating resources as there become CLEAR indications (supported by some form of science, not just annectodes) that a species is in decline. It is when that determination is made that there becomes more rationale to have government bios on staff. Seems fitting and logical from a government with limited cash and a bunch of priorities that, for most British Columbians, trump investigating the decline of a species which is still plentiful enough to hunt by open seasons in most of its range.

Dont mistake this as me agreeing with all of our gov's fiscal priorities. Just recognize that for many BC citizens, the proactive management and maintenance of moose populations falls under education, the medical system, infrastructure maintenance and a host of other areas in terms of importance.

[GoatGuy]

It is interesting to find out they are declining in Europe as well. I know wolves have been on a comeback there as well. Are they finding heavy predation in their herds as well?

Sweden and other EU countries are/have moved to legislation and policies similar to those in NA to reintroduce and ensure sustainable large carnivore populations. I think the 2004 goal was to increase the wolf population by 300% from 70 to >200 and that is a minimum - don't know what the population currently sits at but when we look at these policies wolf populations often greatly exceed the 'minimums'.

It is interesting to note that most often the people who are affected by these policies are locals, and they generally don't support significant increases in large carnivores particularly wolves. Oppositely the people who want them are urbanites who aren't impacted and will likely never see or hear a wolf.

[M.Dean]

In 40 some odd years of Hunting and Fishing all over the place, I don't think I've ever found a dead moose that wasn't either hit by a Car or Truck, or poorly shot??? I guess I wasn't looking in the right places?

[Looking_4_Jerky]

Totally true, Goat Guy. Ask people if they think the world would be the same place without tigers. Then ask people trying to raise livestock in tiger country what the world would be like without tigers! Ironic.

[bearvalley]

You've hit the nail pretty much bang on as to the predators GG.
The other major is the unregulated hunting. Some select few in Region 5 can even get a ticket to harvest an ELK in
Region 5 even though there is not an open season. Go figure, a ticket... Not a license. For ANY ELK...Bull,cow or calf.
Same goes for moose and deer.Those are our main problems.Clearcuts, roads, parasite loads, etc are just additional burdens.
Lets study a little longer while the beauracrats and politicians keep dragging their feet. In the meantime wildlife is the loser.

[Cordillera]

People should take a little perspective. The data is clear that wildlife populations in bc are not universally in peril. In fact numerous species are in much better shape than they were twenty or thirty years ago, despite increased humans. So something is probably working with wildlife management thanks to the bios.

The issue with moose is that no one really knows why they are dying. Period. Even those who have a good idea, and who take the time to gather some data and think critically, will acknowledge that the system is more complex than we think (more complex than we can think), and the data gathered from normal population surveys isn't answering the questions. Yes predation is a possible cause, but then why are populations stable in some areas like the peace and tweedsmuir? Everyone "knows" predators are up in those units too.... And if mountain pine beetle is the problem, then why is the Nass moose population down when there are no beetles last time I looked.....

The research program is a very good thing and should be supported by anyone who really wants to understand what is going on.

[GoatGuy]

People should take a little perspective. The data is clear that wildlife populations in bc are not universally in peril. In fact numerous species are in much better shape than they were twenty or thirty years ago, despite increased humans. So something is probably working with wildlife management thanks to the bios.

The issue with moose is that no one really knows why they are dying. Period. Even those who have a good idea, and who take the time to gather some data and think critically, will acknowledge that the system is more complex than we think (more complex than we can think), and the data gathered from normal population surveys isn't answering the questions. Yes predation is a possible cause, but then why are populations stable in some areas like the peace and tweedsmuir? Everyone "knows" predators are up in those units too.... And if mountain pine beetle is the problem, then why is the Nass moose population down when there are no beetles last time I looked.....

The research program is a very good thing and should be supported by anyone who really wants to understand what is going on.

From what I recall the Nass decline was attributed to unregulated harvest, in particular the adult female component.

[moosinaround]

Lets not forget that wolves love moose more than us!!!!!!
I hardly think so!! I do like moose meat!! Moosinaround

[gcreek]

At $20,000 per moose collared , I wonder how many wolves could be taken out for an excess of $6,000,000.00?

M. Dean, I have only ever found 2 moose in my area that died of a poor shot. Dozens of wolf and bear kills over the years. I guess maybe I might get a little further from the road?

Procrastination on dealing with the predator populations will net in little more than ended seasons for you hunters. Then the real whining will start from those who don't believe those of us that live with them every day.

I'll be gone a couple days guys. Have fun hunting while it lasts!

[ellellbee]

Is it just me that thinks that while the actual die off of the pine due to the beetle isn't the problem, it's not just two legged hunters that take advantage of all those roads built in order to harvest them?

On another note, why is it when something, anything is attempted to find out what is going on with animal populations all the armchair QB's have a conspiracy theory? Getting an answer to the issue should be the first priority.

[bearvalley]

Cordillera, do you find it ironic that the Peace has had the most aggressive predator control in BC in past years.
Also your other "stable" choice, Tweedsmuir, has next to ZERO unregulated hunter harvest.
The Nass is another story as well as the Anahim Lake/Dean River area, and the rest of this province where there is a large predator population and no control on hunter harvest. Clearcuts and access roads help out 4 and 2 legged hunters. Parasites, such as tapeworms are more rampant in moose surviving in areas with high predator populations(canine especially). Ticks are going to be a lot tougher on a stressed moose than a fat, happy one. Anyone's guess as to the stress causer...global warming or a wolf looking for lunch. My belief is that a moose is a short term thinker and is more worried about the wolf.

[Whonnock Boy]

Just a thought... question... Is it possible that the existing moose populations that are doing well are doing so because they have learned to survive with a healthy wolf population, and with those that have seen a large influx of wolves in recent years have seen their demise due to a very steep learning curve?

[gcreek]

Is it just me that thinks that while the actual die off of the pine due to the beetle isn't the problem, it's not just two legged hunters that take advantage of all those roads built in order to harvest them?

On another note, why is it when something, anything is attempted to find out what is going on with animal populations all the armchair QB's have a conspiracy theory? Getting an answer to the issue should be the first priority.

Follow the MONEY............



You will find Bios with more excuses to study.



Couple years guys, you'll be able to change the name of this site to "Camping in BC".

[houndogger]

Is it possible to have native sharp shooters riding in the helicopters...

[ruger#1]

Do your part and save some ungulates.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/wolf_018.jpg

[adriaticum]

Do your part and save some ungulates.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/wolf_018.jpg

Is that new?

[ruger#1]

Two years ago.

[adriaticum]

two years ago.


like!
------

[ruger#1]

That thing weighed over 100lbs and it's belly was round like a barrel. I was up in Chetwyn when they had the wolf kill in the 1980s. We took the horses 15 miles back. Seen three big paddled moose dead and lots of wolf tracks. Lots of helicopters flying around. We had to drive across the Pine River to get to guide camp. Seen three elk a 5x5 and two cows. They were still running the last I seen them. Had a grizzly come in camp and take off with one of the guys moose hides at main camp. So much for being an Armchair QB! If you live in the city you do not understand because of all the anti bullshit. I do not watch the news or read the papers because of all the negative crap that they print.

[russm86]

Moose don't seem to have any problems living through the hot summers in region 3, actually shown as an increase in population, or states to the south, so I don't think the supposed corporate "global warming" scare is the problem...

[ruger#1]

Heck they have no problem in region 8 either. Seen pictures of them in the desert cactus in Oliver. Pictures in the canola fields in Alberta

[ruger#1]

Oliver B.C. Ended up being hit by a car and died.
http://oliverdailynews.com/wp-content/uploads//2013/05/moose-mattes22.jpg
West Kelowna.
http://www.castanet.net/content/2011/9/moose_1_166.jpg

[andrewscag]

I'm curious about how the collars themselves will skew the data. Could easily misrepresent hunting mortality by natives or non if people don't pull the trigger on a collared animal

[adriaticum]

Moose don't seem to have any problems living through the hot summers in region 3, actually shown as an increase in population, or states to the south, so I don't think the supposed corporate "global warming" scare is the problem...

The way it affects the moose is by not killing off the ticks and they infest the moose and then moose die.
There was recently a documentary about moose in Alaska being infested by ticks. 100,000 ticks on 1 cow. They eat her alive.
They may evolve some sort of immunity against ticks down the road but I think they need to be protected while they are in a vulnerable stage.

[ruger#1]

Ticks do not eat meat. They suck the blood. The moose loose blood and try rubbing the ticks off on trees. They loose a lot of hair doing this. And in the winter time they die of hypothermia.

[GoatGuy]

I'm curious about how the collars themselves will skew the data. Could easily misrepresent hunting mortality by natives or non if people don't pull the trigger on a collared animal

That would be reflected in changes in population dynamics. Historically it has been found that people have harvested collared animals even when asked not to. Could go on for days on the subject. Collared ram up whiteswan, the immature bull a hunter correctly identified as 2 pts or less but didn't see the white radio-collar around its neck and on and on and on.

The Nass was mentioned earlier and I believe the highest source of mortality for collared animals was unregulated hunter harvest. There were a bunch of cows collared up at the north end of the Williston a number of years ago as the moose population was disappearing and the same thing was found.

[adriaticum]

Ticks do not eat meat. They suck the blood. The moose loose blood and try rubbing the ticks off on trees. They loose a lot of hair doing this. And in the winter time they die of hypothermia.

Lol, that's a figure of speech.

[andrewscag]

Thanks GG. Interesting stuff and glad unregulated harvest can be accounted for.

[horshur]

Goat what I want to know is whether they collar calves.....how old and how long can they keep a collar on them. from what I see wolves mostly kill calves......also how long with very poor recruitment(low calf survival) do you see a larger collapse as there is nothing to replace the older class....

as well .. I was thinking about this up on the mountain this morning.....here we have had wolves for a while and they have been hard on the animals truth be told the constant presence of wolves has abetted...the hunting even for the wolves is kinda shitty...so if they collared up some animals here to me it would be too late cause what was happening did and what would be happening now is different....

[GoatGuy]

Goat what I want to know is whether they collar calves.....how old and how long can they keep a collar on them. from what I see wolves mostly kill calves......also how long with very poor recruitment(low calf survival) do you see a larger collapse as there is nothing to replace the older class....

as well .. I was thinking about this up on the mountain this morning.....here we have had wolves for a while and they have been hard on the animals truth be told the constant presence of wolves has abetted...the hunting even for the wolves is kinda shitty...so if they collared up some animals here to me it would be too late cause what was happening did and what would be happening now is different....

Still waiting to see the latest draft.

I don't think collaring calves will be in there, although there is literature from other jurisdictions on it (Ontario is currently doing that). It can be challenging as you have to have cows collared then find them in the spring and separate them from their newborns to put a collar on them - it's actually quite dangerous. Neo-nate mortality has historically been attributed to predation from bears. There is the ability to monitor survival through summer/fall/winter inventory to assess carry-over.

Inventory flights calves age 6-9 months =
Calf:cow >30:100= increasing
Calf:cow 25-30:100 = stable
Calf:cow <25:100 = decreasing

Recruitment rates in your neck of the woods (N.Thompson) and on the Bonaparte Plateau have been low for a couple years (like in the teens). The 'big' controller with this stuff outside calf mortality is cow mortality. With the population nose dives we're seeing it is unlikely predation of calves is the sole issue. Looks like cows are being hammered as well.

Many of the wolves in your neck of the woods moved on once the moose were depleted. They have been hammering a few deer winter ranges. Recruitment rates however are still low (wolves are still rotating through on occasion).

You are right about being too late - this is a symptom of having a wildlife management model which does not adequately monitor, research and manage wildlife populations. The cow's already out of the barn. I think we'll start to see moose populations in other parts of Region 3 and 8 which are just starting to see wolves take a nose dive.

[GoatGuy]

On the parasite thing (ticks), a few conversations had with the folks from Manitoba/Minnesota have them thinking the moose are being loaded up with brain worm from the wt 'infestation'. Some areas have parasite loading in wt's >50% of the population and that is where they're seeing the most significant moose declines.

Haven't seen anything published but apparently it is something that wt's carry in a huge way out east. Doesn't affect wt's but does affect moose and caribou.

Just another wrench to throw in to the spokes.

[ruger#1]

On the parasite thing (ticks), a few conversations had with the folks from Manitoba/Minnesota have them thinking the moose are being loaded up with brain worm from the wt 'infestation'. Some areas have parasite loading in wt's >50% of the population and that is where they're seeing the most significant moose declines.

Haven't seen anything published but apparently it is something that wt's carry in a huge way out east. Doesn't affect wt's but does affect moose and caribou.

Just another wrench to throw in to the spokes.
Interesting. I wonder if this is happening in Quebec, Newbrunswick, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Labradour.

[Rackem]

I think we should live trap about 100 wolves, ship em down to Vancouver and release them in the dog parks and Stanley Park...see what happens then...Foofoo and Fifi...doggie mcnuggets.

RE: Ticks, I have seen a warm winter in 150 Mile House where the Moose took a really hard hit. One bull came into our yard, skeletal, and was rubbing his body along the snowbank. He was leaving big bloody streaks on the bank. He was almost completely bald. We went down and looked at him, he laid down and wouldn't get up. My Grampa measured the engorged ticks, which were turquoise blue...two inches long!!! Normally the size of a sesame seed....

We called a CO and he came and put it down. Poor thing. It really was suffering.

[ruger#1]

Something like this.
http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/5b/e7/5be7ba5fecc1d87a31eeca95781bef26.jpg?itok=bI5KL8nI
Hard to keep warm in the winter with no hair.

http://youtu.be/Rsd2i-qFHK4

[dana]

Interesting about the whiteys. You mentioned Sweden earlier. IIRC they have a good whitetail population as well. They were introduced and are doing quite well there.

[dana]

Still waiting to see the latest draft.

I don't think collaring calves will be in there, although there is literature from other jurisdictions on it (Ontario is currently doing that). It can be challenging as you have to have cows collared then find them in the spring and separate them from their newborns to put a collar on them - it's actually quite dangerous. Neo-nate mortality has historically been attributed to predation from bears. There is the ability to monitor survival through summer/fall/winter inventory to assess carry-over.

Inventory flights calves age 6-9 months =
Calf:cow >30:100= increasing
Calf:cow 25-30:100 = stable
Calf:cow <25:100 = decreasing

Recruitment rates in your neck of the woods (N.Thompson) and on the Bonaparte Plateau have been low for a couple years (like in the teens). The 'big' controller with this stuff outside calf mortality is cow mortality. With the population nose dives we're seeing it is unlikely predation of calves is the sole issue. Looks like cows are being hammered as well.

Many of the wolves in your neck of the woods moved on once the moose were depleted. They have been hammering a few deer winter ranges. Recruitment rates however are still low (wolves are still rotating through on occasion).

You are right about being too late - this is a symptom of having a wildlife management model which does not adequately monitor, research and manage wildlife populations. The cow's already out of the barn. I think we'll start to see moose populations in other parts of Region 3 and 8 which are just starting to see wolves take a nose dive.

Having just lived through the wolf epidemic and come out the other side, there is no doubt that our moose decline is a direct result of wolves. Our Bio would agree. Our deer numbers are also only a shadow of what they were only a few years ago. I would also say our black bear numbers were hit hard in the last 2 years of the wolf crisis. Running out of food, they started to target anything and everything to fill their stomachs. I saw lots of wolf scat filled with bear hair in 2012 and saw a dramatic drop in bear sightings that spring. Ticks and Lung worm are not the issue here. So now that the epidemic is over here in my valley, I wonder, how long will it take to see a recovery? Unlike a decline as a result of winter kill, our winter range is in great condition. A dramatic drop in competition in critters using it should bode well in the recovery should it not? How many years before things start to feel normal again? or for the moose, perhaps decades? We lived through major die offs before. This once was a place of a moose explosion unlike none other only to see the bubble burst in the hard winters of the late 60s and early 70s. I wonder we might need to drastically curtail tag numbers in the near future to get them back on their feet. Worked in the early 90s. The first thing that I think might be on the chopping block is the LEH cow tags, but bull tags will need to be cut hard as well. I think what they have done in Blue River of 1 tag per season might need to be done in the units all down the valley. Keep them low instead cutting back to zero. That way you won't have a battle with various groups to re-enstate the hunts when numbers climb back up.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Having just lived through the wolf epidemic and come out the other side, there is no doubt that our moose decline is a direct result of wolves. Our Bio would agree. Our deer numbers are also only a shadow of what they were only a few years ago. I would also say our black bear numbers were hit hard in the last 2 years of the wolf crisis. Running out of food, they started to target anything and everything to fill their stomachs. I saw lots of wolf scat filled with bear hair in 2012 and saw a dramatic drop in bear sightings that spring. Ticks and Lung worm are not the issue here. So now that the epidemic is over here in my valley, I wonder, how long will it take to see a recovery? Unlike a decline as a result of winter kill, our winter range is in great condition. A dramatic drop in competition in critters using it should bode well in the recovery should it not? How many years before things start to feel normal again? or for the moose, perhaps decades? We lived through major die offs before. This once was a place of a moose explosion unlike none other only to see the bubble burst in the hard winters of the late 60s and early 70s. I wonder we might need to drastically curtail tag numbers in the near future to get them back on their feet. Worked in the early 90s. The first thing that I think might be on the chopping block is the LEH cow tags, but bull tags will need to be cut hard as well. I think what they have done in Blue River of 1 tag per season might need to be done in the units all down the valley. Keep them low instead cutting back to zero. That way you won't have a battle with various groups to re-enstate the hunts when numbers climb back up.

Heard similar stories from an outfitter in the E Koots about the wolves affecting black bears. It's so bad they stopped taking spring black bear hunters where they used to take 20 good bears each spring.

SSS

[Cordillera]

Bearvalley, i was not aware of any special predator control in the peace in the past 5 or so years that would help make that population different than others; i understand there was more aggressive programs in the past but wolves have big litters so they rebound back very quickly from any predator control. Therefore i still believe the stable population units (include ones done recently like the lower skeena; stable) make me think there is no single universal factor.

l also incorrectly called the unit tweedsmuir when it's entiako/tweedsmuir. i don't see how it would have less unregulated harvest than some of the units right next door; much of the unit is roaded with communities close by (native and non-native).

I think the comment that Nass was attributed to unregulated harvest on cows is accurate.

The discussion about ticks, and the reference to multiple stressors (bad winter, pressure, etc) all point to a system with no single smoking gun, and therefore no simple solution. It's also interesting to think that these are dynamic ecosystems and some of this oscillation will happen.

[BearSupreme]

I think we should live trap about 100 wolves, ship em down to Vancouver and release them in the dog parks and Stanley Park...see what happens then...Foofoo and Fifi...doggie mcnuggets.


lol Then the city dwellers can see how much they love wolves. Im not saying to kill them all, but ive heard them howl in groups of 15-20 and they kill for fun, so they must be impacting all ungulates. I have also noticed a decline in bears in the same area's as the increase in wolves. We all know the goverment wont do anything about this, I think its up to hunters to spend a bit more time in the winter investing in our wildlife, and taking a couple wolves out of the picture...

[GoatGuy]

Having just lived through the wolf epidemic and come out the other side, there is no doubt that our moose decline is a direct result of wolves. Our Bio would agree. Our deer numbers are also only a shadow of what they were only a few years ago. I would also say our black bear numbers were hit hard in the last 2 years of the wolf crisis. Running out of food, they started to target anything and everything to fill their stomachs. I saw lots of wolf scat filled with bear hair in 2012 and saw a dramatic drop in bear sightings that spring. Ticks and Lung worm are not the issue here. So now that the epidemic is over here in my valley, I wonder, how long will it take to see a recovery? Unlike a decline as a result of winter kill, our winter range is in great condition. A dramatic drop in competition in critters using it should bode well in the recovery should it not? How many years before things start to feel normal again? or for the moose, perhaps decades? We lived through major die offs before. This once was a place of a moose explosion unlike none other only to see the bubble burst in the hard winters of the late 60s and early 70s. I wonder we might need to drastically curtail tag numbers in the near future to get them back on their feet. Worked in the early 90s. The first thing that I think might be on the chopping block is the LEH cow tags, but bull tags will need to be cut hard as well. I think what they have done in Blue River of 1 tag per season might need to be done in the units all down the valley. Keep them low instead cutting back to zero. That way you won't have a battle with various groups to re-enstate the hunts when numbers climb back up.

It's also plausible that the moose population won't recover and that it will be maintained at low(er) densities, unless predator management is conducted. Managers could justifiably close the season for moose in your area, but it likely won't make a difference. There have been die-offs in the past, but they have been attributed to severe winter, not recolonization of viable wolf populations. The caribou in your neck of the woods have also taken a licken' the last couple of years.

[GoatGuy]

Interesting about the whiteys. You mentioned Sweden earlier. IIRC they have a good whitetail population as well. They were introduced and are doing quite well there.

Couple of publicly available bits on brain worm and moose recovery in MB:

http://www.gov.mb.ca/watchablewildlife/moose.html
http://www.gov.mb.ca/conservation/wildlife/hunting/biggame/moose/seasons.html

Bit on brain worm:
http://www.usask.ca/wcvm/herdmed/specialstock/deer/Ptenuis.html

[dana]

It's also plausible that the moose population won't recover and that it will be maintained at low(er) densities, unless predator management is conducted. Managers could justifiably close the season for moose in your area, but it likely won't make a difference. There have been die-offs in the past, but they have been attributed to severe winter, not recolonization of viable wolf populations. The caribou in your neck of the woods have also taken a licken' the last couple of years.

The caribou took the big hit back in the 20's with a large swath of habitat wiped out due to fire, which was the start of the moose invasion followed by wolves. This latest hit was only the last nail in the coffin. Maybe if we had of paid the trappers a bounty to kill wolves instead of paying them huge dollars to live trap the wolves to collar them, we could have held off the last nail for another few years. What was done I don't agree with but there is nothing I can do to change what is now in the past. I can only live with the results of those decisions now. I beat the drum and no one listened. Not even you. I do have hope that what I've seen will one day return. This is only a blip in time and we have seen things go down and climb slowly back up again many times in the past.

[GoatGuy]

The caribou took the big hit back in the 20's with a large swath of habitat wiped out due to fire, which was the start of the moose invasion followed by wolves. This latest hit was only the last nail in the coffin. Maybe if we had of paid the trappers a bounty to kill wolves instead of paying them huge dollars to live trap the wolves to collar them, we could have held off the last nail for another few years. What was done I don't agree with but there is nothing I can do to change what is now in the past. I can only live with the results of those decisions now. I beat the drum and no one listened. Not even you. I do have hope that what I've seen will one day return. This is only a blip in time and we have seen things go down and climb slowly back up again many times in the past.

Crow does taste good sometimes! Learning about all this stuff has been very educational.

[Gamebuster]

The caribou took the big hit back in the 20's with a large swath of habitat wiped out due to fire, which was the start of the moose invasion followed by wolves. This latest hit was only the last nail in the coffin. Maybe if we had of paid the trappers a bounty to kill wolves instead of paying them huge dollars to live trap the wolves to collar them, we could have held off the last nail for another few years. What was done I don't agree with but there is nothing I can do to change what is now in the past. I can only live with the results of those decisions now. I beat the drum and no one listened. Not even you. I do have hope that what I've seen will one day return. This is only a blip in time and we have seen things go down and climb slowly back up again many times in the past.

While it may seem silly to you, the reason biologists were collaring wolves in your neck is so they could find which packs were killing caribou knowing they would never get approval for wide reaching wolf cull. If only a few packs we're hanging around caribou which I believe they found, it was hoped it would be more agreeable to manage those packs. Doesn't make senseto kill a apck not targeting caribou as they could be replaced a pack that does. They were hoping for something similar up here in the Cariboo. In the end it didn't matter, no wolf control. I don't think you we're the only one to know there was awolf problem there as they were working on that quite afew years ago now.

[two-feet]

Just to stir the pot...had a leh group moose hunt in 6-30 3 years ago, and again this year as well. 3 years ago we saw 1 moose, 10 wolves (my partener shot one) and wolf sign everywhere, nary a moose track. This year we saw about 8 moose and almost no wolf sign. Region 6 has historically had lots of wolves, moose and "unregulated" hunting at the same time and moose populations seem to be holding.

I remember chasing wolves with my grandpa back in the 80s, they were killing his cattle back then too. But from what alot of other guys are saying is the wolves are overpopulated and killing absolutely everything around in the south.

So what makes the difference between here and there?

[40incher]

Just a thought... question... Is it possible that the existing moose populations that are doing well are doing so because they have learned to survive with a healthy wolf population, and with those that have seen a large influx of wolves in recent years have seen their demise due to a very steep learning curve?


Interesting concept ... In the South Skeena we have had high wolf numbers on the chart for my whole hunting life (50+ years) and yet the moose continue to thrive. I personally believe the railway kills and the subsequent carcasses (in the high hundreds per year) of moose carry a large number of predators over the winter period. That's not natural or part of the ecosystem. But it is reality.

Too bad we don't have a management system that considers all aspects of the situation.

When the media says the sky is falling we run for cover ... FYI. the sky is not falling ...

[dana]

I can remember years ago saying a collared wolf will eat the last caribou in this valley. I don't think that now as those collared wolves just up and left to find easier hunting to the south. There are some knowlegeable locals that actually believe the caribou are on the verge of a comeback. I don't know if I personally believe that but they aren't all eaten. I read in the local paper where the legendary bio Ralph Ritcey stated that it is all about habitat when it comes to caribou. They will survive predators.

[aggiehunter]

saw quite a few dead this year in lower Region 8...most in late August early Sept...all new trucks too...mystery solved!

[dana]

While it may seem silly to you, the reason biologists were collaring wolves in your neck is so they could find which packs were killing caribou knowing they would never get approval for wide reaching wolf cull. If only a few packs we're hanging around caribou which I believe they found, it was hoped it would be more agreeable to manage those packs. Doesn't make senseto kill a apck not targeting caribou as they could be replaced a pack that does. They were hoping for something similar up here in the Cariboo. In the end it didn't matter, no wolf control. I don't think you we're the only one to know there was awolf problem there as they were working on that quite afew years ago now.

While working, I personally found a grizzly killed big bull caribou back in 07 and reported it to the Ministry. We had to pull teeth to get anyone to come out and see it. Only when my client called the media about the lack of concern from the Ministry did the Ministry scramble to send someone out to investigate it. By then it was too late as all evidence of the bear we jumped off the carcus were long covered in fresh snow. A couple of wolf tracks sniffing the little bit of remains left so suddenly it was uncertain what killed the caribou. Months later in the dead of winter, a helicopter skiing company hovered over a grizz on top of another dead caribou. I tell these stories because the predator management ball has been dropped a ton of times in this fiasco. I personally believe killing as many wolves as they could with the trappers getting a bounty would have been more effective than paying them huge bucks to live capture for the collars. Best bang for the money would have been the bounty would it not. Live trapping is tuff but many trappers gave it a go due to the money paid out.

[Gamebuster]

While working, I personally found a grizzly killed big bull caribou back in 07 and reported it to the Ministry. We had to pull teeth to get anyone to come out and see it. Only when my client called the media about the lack of concern from the Ministry did the Ministry scramble to send someone out to investigate it. By then it was too late as all evidence of the bear we jumped off the carcus were long covered in fresh snow. A couple of wolf tracks sniffing the little bit of remains left so suddenly it was uncertain what killed the caribou. Months later in the dead of winter, a helicopter skiing company hovered over a grizz on top of another dead caribou. I tell these stories because the predator management ball has been dropped a ton of times in this fiasco. I personally believe killing as many wolves as they could with the trappers getting a bounty would have been more effective than paying them huge bucks to live capture for the collars. Best bang for the money would have been the bounty would it not. Live trapping is tuff but many trappers gave it a go due to the money paid out.

I'm sure they realize grizz kill caribou as some of their collared caribou got killed by grizzlies but if there ever was a is slim chance they could get approval to kill wolves there is zero chance of culling or even more intensively killing grizzly. The hope was that wolf cull would be enough to turn the decline around, realizing there's other things killing them.

[GoatGuy]

I'm sure they realize grizz kill caribou as some of their collared caribou got killed by grizzlies but if there ever was a is slim chance they could get approval to kill wolves there is zero chance of culling or even more intensively killing grizzly. The hope was that wolf cull would be enough to turn the decline around, realizing there's other things killing them.

Hahaha, nail on head.

[M.Dean]

If we, the Moose Hunters of this Province what to eat Moose Steaks and Roasts all winter, we have to kill Wolves! No ones going to do it for us, so, next time you see Wolves, try your best to kill everyone of them! And remember, "Where there's hot lead, there's hope"!!! Also, "The Rut's On"!!!

[GoatGuy]

I can remember years ago saying a collared wolf will eat the last caribou in this valley. I don't think that now as those collared wolves just up and left to find easier hunting to the south. There are some knowlegeable locals that actually believe the caribou are on the verge of a comeback. I don't know if I personally believe that but they aren't all eaten. I read in the local paper where the legendary bio Ralph Ritcey stated that it is all about habitat when it comes to caribou. They will survive predators.

While that is the 'general' consensus, it's tough to replace habitat when it's cut off by highways, wildlife exclusion fences, burned, fragmented from oil and gas exploration, submerged under water and logged. Just gas lines have been shown to trigger population declines in the NE.

We are literally hundreds of years from 'suitable habitat' in many areas in BC (guess that's why they call it old growth).

There are only two ways to have Caribou down south: 1)predator control or 2)raise them in zoos/maternal penning.

Otherwise we can kiss them goodbye.

[Jelvis]

Kinda late now eh ? Blamed the natives then blamed the wolves and now?
Should ah and coulda bin done already.
It woulda bin bedder b4 they died, what can't catch and test a moose?
Like the ranchers daughter, Judy, had a horse in the barn and the door was loose
Had a horse in the barn she loved, her dad dint fix the darn gate right away
The gate was left open one night, faulty latch system
And Jude's horse called Wildfire had gone without a trace
Jude cried, and was devastated, Dad said too late to shut the barn door now girl
Maybe we can learn from this true tale? Dad you dint fix the door like you coulda
Do you think so darlin. I'm sorry sweet, it's too late Wildfire has gone.
Jel .. She ran calling Wildfire, she ran calling and it was too late baby, to turn back now tho we really did try to make it .. Carol King

[bearvalley]

Not trying to be an armchair bio, but my belief is that when the ungulant numbers drop low enough that wolves are crapping straight wolf hair (and not thier own) and we get one set of rules for all hunters .... We will see game populations increase.

[Jelvis]

It's all in the eye of the beerholder.
Still alive after all these beers.
Mostly bar talk and no medical science, they waited like the pine beetle
No money honey
Jel .. You got the money honey, I got the time ... No money, no funny, your Sonny
Too bad, so sad, your Dad.

[bearvalley]

Jel ... you could keep a shrink busy for a day or two.

[Rackem]

Not trying to be an armchair bio, but my belief is that when the ungulant numbers drop low enough that wolves are crapping straight wolf hair (and not their own) and we get one set of rules for all hunters .... We will see game populations increase.

This confuses me, do you mean crapping straight Moose hair?

[Husky7mm]

Hmmm, perhaps after this we can study declining mule deer........ And then maybe study some declining bighorns....... I don't know someone really , really smart gonna have to figure it out.

[Husky7mm]

This confuses me, do you mean crapping straight Moose hair?
No he means when they eat thenselves out of house and home. The wolf lovers want wolves to die from malnutrition and internal strive, it's much more romantic an idea.....

[bearvalley]

Nope, wolf hair. Have seen it happen before. When the moose, deer etc. are gone and wolves get hungry they will eat each other. Game populations are gone first but if a pack doesn't move into a new area after thier territory is picked clean, they are going to starve. Sad but effective. A "humane" culling program would be a hell of a lot kinder.

[Rackem]

Yuck. That has to be a desperate animal. Seems a sad way to go.

[Husky7mm]

Interesting. I wonder if this is happening in Quebec, Newbrunswick, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Labradour.
As far as I know no whitetail are present in Labrador and Newfoundland. The Moose population is exploding on the rock, iirc they have black bears but no wolves.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Nope, wolf hair. Have seen it happen before. When the moose, deer etc. are gone and wolves get hungry they will eat each other. Game populations are gone first but if a pack doesn't move into a new area after thier territory is picked clean, they are going to starve. Sad but effective. A "humane" culling program would be a hell of a lot kinder.

Or they will switch to cattle.

[bearvalley]

Or they will switch to cattle.

You are right SSS.
But there are times and places where beef isn't available.

[Wild one]

Wolves eat a lot more than just ungulates so it will take a major crash to starve them out

[325]

If moose population reductions were only occuring in North America, I think it would be reasonable to point the finger at wolves, or unregulated FN harvest. Although I'm certain both of the above are having a negative impact, the global nature of the decline (Russia, Sweden, etc), complicates the situation considerably.

Perhaps wolf populations are expanding all across the northern hemisphere, and they are causing the declines, but I would doubt that. I would think that such a large-scale decline would most likely be the result of disease. I find it hard to believe global warming is playing a role, as much of Russia has experienced very cold winters the last few years.

[bearvalley]

Wolves eat a lot more than just ungulates so it will take a major crash to starve them out

No argument. But a pack that can't move on and establish a new territory isn't going to do worth a damn on a diet of birds , bugs and bark. The winter months are going to be pretty slim pickings other than for coastal wolves. They might get by. Hell, maybe they'll all figure it out and well have a mass relocation migration out of the interior. The Lower Mainland, BC's new Wolf Mecca. Be great

[ruger#1]

As far as I know no whitetail are present in Labrador and Newfoundland. The Moose population is exploding on the rock, iirc they have black bears but no wolves.
Newfoundland wolf? .
http://youtu.be/Hb-nu2dYIqM
Published on Jul 17, 2012

Wildlife camera captures what appears to be a wolf in bonavista bay, newfoundland. Video taken only months after a wolf, confirmed by dna, was taken by a hunter on the bonavista peninsula

[ruger#1]

No argument. But a pack that can't move on and establish a new territory isn't going to do worth a damn on a diet of birds , bugs and bark. The winter months are going to be pretty slim pickings other than for coastal wolves. They might get by. Hell, maybe they'll all figure it out and well have a mass relocation migration out of the interior. The Lower Mainland, BC's new Wolf Mecca. Be great
News for you. That wolf in the picture is from the lower mainland. And others in the 1980s have been shot Close to Dewdney. And Hemlock Valley.

[bearvalley]

If moose population reductions were only occuring in North America, I think it would be reasonable to point the finger at wolves, or unregulated FN harvest. Although I'm certain both of the above are having a negative impact, the global nature of the decline (Russia, Sweden, etc), complicates the situation considerably.

Perhaps wolf populations are expanding all across the northern hemisphere, and they are causing the declines, but I would doubt that. I would think that such a large-scale decline would most likely be the result of disease. I find it hard to believe global warming is playing a role, as much of Russia has experienced very cold winters the last few years.

Are there no wolves in Russia?
Hunters here in BC kill a bunch of moose every year.
Anyone shot a sick one?
I don't mean one with ticks on its hide or loaded with tapeworm larvae throughout its meat.
Has anyone seen or shot one with the staggers or going around in circles.
Not to many white tails if any in some of the areas with crashing moose numbers.
Think about it.

[ruger#1]

Russia: Raids by wolves spark 'emergency' in Sakha
Wolves are pests for Sakha's herders who rely on reindeer for a living Continue reading the main story
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An influx of wolves preying on reindeer herds has triggered a state of emergency in the Sakha Republic, in north-eastern Russia.

Squads of hunters will pursue the wolves in a three-month "battle" from 15 January, officials say.

The most successful hunters will get bonuses. The vast, sparsely populated region is also known as Yakutia.

Experts quoted by Russian media believe a shortage of mountain hares has caused the migration of hungry wolves.

Wolf packs have moved into Sakha's central reindeer pastures, from their normal hunting grounds in the mountains and dense forests. Reports speak of increased attacks on livestock, but not on humans.

The wolf-hunting season has been extended to the whole year, as the target is to get the wolf population in the region down to 500 - reckoned to be the optimal number. Currently there are estimated to be more than 3,500.

There will be a "six-figure sum" for hunters who bring in the most wolf pelts - a big incentive, as 100,000 roubles (£2,043; $3,280) goes a long way in a region that is famously cold, remote and under-developed.

The emergency measures were announced by Sakha President Yegor Borisov, who heard numerous complaints about wolf attacks when he visited several villages, a statement on his website said.

The Sakha agriculture ministry says 16,111 reindeer were savaged by wolves in 2012 - a 4.3% rise on 2011. That meant a loss to reindeer herders of more than 150m roubles (£3m; $5m), as each reindeer is worth about 10,000 roubles (£205; $328).

Wolves also killed 314 domesticated horses, the Sakha authorities said.

Last year hunters killed 730 wolves in the republic.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65109000/gif/_65109218_russia_sakha_0113.gif

[bearvalley]

News for you. That wolf in the picture is from the lower mainland. And others in the 1980s have been shot Close to Dewdney. And Hemlock Valley.

Whats new about that. I'm fully aware that you have wolves in the LM. They're all along the coast and on the island as well. The point I was making is the will do better down there in a milder climate finding birds and bugs all winter. Maybe they'll get a taste for trash cans and pet snacks. Nice picture of a dead wolf. To bad the rest of the truck box is empty.

[325]

Are there no wolves in Russia?
Hunters here in BC kill a bunch of moose every year.
Anyone shot a sick one?
I don't mean one with ticks on its hide or loaded with tapeworm larvae throughout its meat.
Has anyone seen or shot one with the staggers or going around in circles.
Not to many white tails if any in some of the areas with crashing moose numbers.
Think about it.

Yeah there are lots of wolves in Russia...but there always has been. Why, suddenly, are wolves killing all the moose in the northern hemisphere? Have wolf populations exploded everywhere at the same time?? I suppose that's possible, but seems unlikely.

I agree wolves need to be culled here in BC. I'm not arguing that point. But to have an "the moose are decling because of wolves - case closed!" mentality, doesn't really address the global decline in moose numbers. And BTW, I am "thinking about it".

[bearvalley]

How about deer numbers?
Does anyone else think there are less in areas, or is it just me.
Anyone shot a sick one with brainworm symptoms in BC?
We should do a deer study.
Heres another site specific example; Some of the Region 5 resident elk herd seems to have thinned out and spread out. A few of our local un-regulated hunters are getting thier "special" tickets to put one in the deep freeze but the rest sure scatter when a wolf pack camps on them.
Ground for another study later..

[Wild one]

No argument. But a pack that can't move on and establish a new territory isn't going to do worth a damn on a diet of birds , bugs and bark. The winter months are going to be pretty slim pickings other than for coastal wolves. They might get by. Hell, maybe they'll all figure it out and well have a mass relocation migration out of the interior. The Lower Mainland, BC's new Wolf Mecca. Be great

Some parts of BC beaver actually makes up a large part of the wolves diet. Wolves also prey on black bear, lynx, bobcat, rabbit, muskrat, seal, salmon and many other species. When it comes down to it if it is protein they will eat it. Lots of areas with poor ungulate populations in BC hold healthy wolf populations.

My point is don't expect them to starve out as easy as some believe they are survivors

I also believe the problems BC is seeing with ungulate populations runs a lot deeper than just wolves. No doubt high wolf numbers don't help though

[bearvalley]

Some parts of BC beaver actually makes up a large part of the wolves diet. Wolves also prey on black bear, lynx, bobcat, rabbit, muskrat, seal, salmon and many other species. When it comes down to it if it is protein they will eat it. Lots of areas with poor ungulate populations in BC hold healthy wolf populations.

My point is don't expect them to starve out as easy as some believe they are survivors

I also believe the problems BC is seeing with ungulate populations runs a lot deeper than just wolves. No doubt high wolf numbers don't help though


You are getting the picture. If you read previous posts you will see that I have suggested there are a combination of factors that are dropping game numbers. Not wolves alone. But I'll bet "truth be known" when the smoke all clears, predators and un-regulated hunting will be the two big hammers. Global warming stress, scared shitless that a predator is going to eat me stress, brain worms, ticks and other diseases are going to be farther down the line.

But I'll bet you when the quick fix band-aid cure all comes out..NUMBER 1 on the list will be less regulated hunter opportunity.
Its already started.

[Rackem]

Russia has Super Packs of wolves apparently http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/field-notes/2013/05/super-pack-400-wolves-terrorizes-remote-russian-town

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I think the anti's are dropping burger-balls filled with fertility drugs out of airplanes.

SSS

[Rackem]

Dropping burger balls full of xylitol would be better...

[hawk-i]

Dropping burger balls full of xylitol would be better...

Now you're talking!!!!:)

[dana]

I'm sure they realize grizz kill caribou as some of their collared caribou got killed by grizzlies but if there ever was a is slim chance they could get approval to kill wolves there is zero chance of culling or even more intensively killing grizzly. The hope was that wolf cull would be enough to turn the decline around, realizing there's other things killing them.

Funny that to save the VI marmot they killed everything, including wolves and eagles. Did they collar the eagles to make sure they were the guilty suspects? Why would we hold a rodent to a higher degree than the caribou? and BTW, the press release from the Ministry regarding the grizz killed caribou I found was they would go in and kill it and then take it away from the resident quota. They have power to increase tag numbers and change seasons. Yet the seasons still go from April 1 to May 31. 99% of the years most of the area is stlll plugged with snow by that last week of the season. No one extended the season into June like in Region 7a which borders the carbiou zones in 3. No fall season where success would be much higher. It is like they don't want to save the caribou the way I see it. And when you look at the dollars spent on live capture of wolves versus spending the same dollars on a bounty, do you think we'd be in the same mess we are in with caribou, moose and mule deer all now in the toliet. Seriously, you think the money spent on collars was worth it?

[Jelvis]

That's not good because other animules will eat dah poy zon in the meatah ballz
And when day eat it, they get sick too and die dead like.
So I don't think you want to see, bald eee galz, wolver eeenz, mink, marten, ravens, bob tailed catz, lynx, fox, white, red and silver all gone because you wood drop poison filled hamburger with double cheese on the ground from planes?
Dah plane Boss, dah plane.
Jel .. Please think b4 engaging tung .. You are not the centre of the earth quite yet.
Stick with your day jobs lol Hahahahaha whoa! We got problemoes what color is dah sky ware U live?

[bearvalley]

Recovering caribou herds isn't new science. When the Yukon wildlife boys rebuilt the Forty Mile caribou herd numbers they collared wolves, sterilized the alphas and trans located the excess. To quote one of the lead bios
on the project " where do you move a wolf where there isn't one already".
In other words they Collared them, cut them and killed them. Caribou herd grew as well.

[hawk-i]

That's not good because other animules will eat dah poy zon in the meatah ballz
And when day eat it, they get sick too and die dead like.
So I don't think you want to see, bald eee galz, wolver eeenz, mink, marten, ravens, bob tailed catz, lynx, fox, white, red and silver all gone because you wood drop poison filled hamburger with double cheese on the ground from planes?
Dah plane Boss, dah plane.
Jel .. Please think b4 engaging tung .. You are not the centre of the earth quite yet.
Stick with your day jobs lol Hahahahaha whoa! We got problemoes what color is dah sky ware U live?

Hey Jel....if the spiced up meat balls kill off all these other animals, we can reintroduce the desirable species back into the eco system after the fact. Just a thought!

[Jelvis]

What about lost hunters, starving, haven't eaten for weeks?
They can't believe the miracle from above, meatballs with double cheese falling out of the sky.
Jel .. I don't need to tell you what wood happen to these poor lost hunters

[BCBRAD]

Re: B.C. study to probe mystery of dying moose


I hope they don't try to lay this shit on the 200gr AccuBond, cause I'm not talkin'

[hawk-i]

What about lost hunters, starving, haven't eaten for weeks?
They can't believe the miracle from above, meatballs with double cheese falling out of the sky.
Jel .. I don't need to tell you what wood happen to these poor lost hunters

LOL....feed the hungry hunters and get rid of wolves....now, that's a good plan. Last time I heard Xylitol isn't harmful to humans, has something changed?

[dana]

While that is the 'general' consensus, it's tough to replace habitat when it's cut off by highways, wildlife exclusion fences, burned, fragmented from oil and gas exploration, submerged under water and logged. Just gas lines have been shown to trigger population declines in the NE.

We are literally hundreds of years from 'suitable habitat' in many areas in BC (guess that's why they call it old growth).

There are only two ways to have Caribou down south: 1)predator control or 2)raise them in zoos/maternal penning.

Otherwise we can kiss them goodbye.

There are some here, including a world reknowned lichenoligist, that think the forests that burned in the 20s are on the verge of having all the attributes needed as old growth caribou habitat. They write a lot of stuff and are printed in our local paper on almost a weekly basis. They seriously believe the Well Gray caribou are on the verge of a comeback. The one thing I believe they are missing is these same forests are ripe for another huge fire. Pl beetle, Bl beetle and Sx beetle have hit these forests hard. They are one lightning strike away from repeating the Great Fire of 26. Then, bye bye to the new 'old growth'.

One should note that Wells Gray herd has seen more declines than outside the Park over the years. No Logging. No roads. No highways. No pipelines. Just wilderness. Oh ya, no predator control whatsoever. No wolf season. No cougar season. No grizzly season. Not even a coyote season. Hmmm, wonder why the caribou are declining eh?

[Argali]

Ticks:
I haven't personally seen many ticks on moose in B.C. although I have seen photos from infected moose in the lower 48 where warmer winters have reportedly been good to ticks. However, I can relate to tick problems. Once when working in pine/bush in Honduras near the El Salvador border, I heard some local warnings about a rampant tick infestation. I checked myself for ticks the first 4 or 5 days but didn't see any despite watching the local crew guys brush each other off with branches for 10 minutes every time they touched a bush. Afer a week or so, I started to think they just liked doing that ...

About 10 days in, I was starting to feel down, so I spent some time trying to wash off some of the dirt that had been accumulating on my arms despite occasional showers. The dirt didn't come off, and that is when I first noticed the ticks. Not normal-sized adult ticks, but tiny, micro ticks in the larval stage and barely visible to the naked eye. I had thousands of them all over me.

That night I came down with a massive fever that was attributed to ticks although it could have been dengue from mosquitos. I was delerious for a number of days, and very sick for many weeks. I don't remember how I got the ticks off or anything from those days other than wondering why I was still shivering under 14 blankets in 30C weather! I had no medical aid so one of the locals probably gave me some tick-off advice. I now have a lot of respect for the damage that ticks can do.

My condolences to any moose so infected.