Animals misidentified region 8-08, 8-11

[HarryToolips]

CO stop on Crystal mtn road, CO's said 6 moose in these areas were misidentified shot and left to rot, and several mule deer does were shot and left after obviously being misidentified for whitetail does.. anybody have any info please phone it in to RAPP.. these are the kind of hunters who make it worse for the rest of us.. was there always this many bad hunters or is this a recent trend???

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Or it's the same person who seems to go on a shooting rampage every yr in the OK??

SSS

[Sofa King]

this is nothing new.
one season, I found four moose dead and left to rot all in the dobbin lake area.
a cow and her calf, right on a side trail.
a cow on the back side of dobbin.
and a big bull off a further back trail.

but all these killings of the wrong breed of does is just ridiculous.
it's like nobody slows down and takes the time to properly identify anymore.
movement - point and shoot.

and I heard of a wounded moose up sunset main powerline area on the weekend.
the guys were searching for it last I heard, a bad shot at 450 yards or more.
hope they were successful in tracking it down.

[GoatGuy]

Or it's the same person who seems to go on a shooting rampage every yr in the OK??

SSS

It does seem consistent.

Even before there was an antlerless wt GOS there were mule does shot and left on the westside. Sometimes backstrap or hind quarters were taken other times nothing was taken.

There have also been numerous cases of cow moose and big bull moose that were shot and left.

One individual was caught and charged with failure to retrieve a couple years ago.

It does seem bizarre that these people aren't being reported and no one knows who they are.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

It does seem consistent.

Even before there was an antlerless wt GOS there were mule does shot and left on the westside. Sometimes backstrap or hind quarters were taken other times nothing was taken.

There have also been numerous cases of cow moose and big bull moose that were shot and left.

One individual was caught and charged with failure to retrieve a couple years ago.

It does seem bizarre that these people aren't being reported and no one knows who they are.


I bet most of this crap goes on in the darkness of the night.

[adriaticum]

Hey maybe it's all legal.
FNs possibly?
It's ok. :mrgreen:

[Rackem]

http://globalnews.ca/news/169832/moose-shot-out-of-season-in-the-north-okanagan/

2011 Moose target practice...

"Conservation officers are asking residents in the North Okanagan to be on the lookout for hunters illegally shooting moose.

In the past two months, 15 moose have been shot out of season.
The carcasses are being left to rot. Nothing is taken, not even the antlers.
They have been found near Kelowna, Vernon, and Salmon Arm.
The latest illegal killing was over the weekend when a female moose and her two calves were found shot to death.
“Obviously [these are] not legitimate hunters. We are not even sure if it is a case of mistaken identity. Because the two calves, I understand, were together, and that would be someone just indiscriminately killing wildlife,” said Conservation Officer Sgt. Josh Lockwood. "

[Mikey Rafiki]

I remember when I first started hunting as a kid I was scared to death of shooting the wrong species, so I spent plenty of time with my dad learning and watching, judging animals before and after season. It can take new hunters years to gain that knowledge and experience that many consider second nature. Maybe that level of care and respect has dwindled.

Especially for does, it's not like they are that scarce. Seems like the plan to increase whitey opportunities could backfire on a few breeding mule deer does.

I don't want to consider the FN speculation. Nothing constructive happens on this forum, although I agree things need to change.

[Sofa King]

I remember a few years ago they caught a guy in the Okanagan.
they had found a poached moose that had been covered up with branches to conceal it.
I think they sat and waited nearby, and sure enough, the guy eventually snuck back to retrieve it.

[Rackem]

Moose serial killer?

http://www.castanet.net/news/Vernon/49984/Three-moose-shot-illegally

2009
Three moose shot illegally by Rachael Kimola - Story: 49984
Oct 7, 2009 / 12:30 pm


It was a bad weekend for moose across the North Okanagan.

Three of the large animals were found shot out of season and conservation officers are hoping the persons responsible will do the right thing and report themselves.

Sergeant Josh Lockwood is the field supervisor for the conservation office in the North Okanagan.

He says on the weekend of October 3, they received reports from hunters about three separate moose which had been shot and left in different parts of the North Okanagan.

“One of them was just off the Stewart Forest Service Road, north of Kelowna between Kelowna and Vernon off Westside Road. One of the others was in the Falkland area up near Woods Lake off of the Ingram Forest Service Road. The other was in Lumby off the Harris Creek Forest Service Road. They were at fairly vast differences, so it wasn't the same individual,” says Lockwood.

He says the current hunting season for moose is for animals with less than two antler points.

“These moose were large moose, one had five or six points and the others were three or four points on each side.”

Lockwood says a responsible hunter will self report such shootings right away.

“We had two self report over the weekend, one shot an elk and one shot a moose. People who self report tend to call in right away and say 'I've made a mistake.' Then they will field dress the animal so it can be salvaged.”

He says once a report has been made into an accidental shooting, an investigation is done to determine what, if any, punishment is warranted.

“It is at the discretion of the conservation officer, possible courses of action can range from a fine, to court action to making the hunter retake the hunter's test.”

Lockwood says the majority of hunters are very responsible and the fact that no one has claimed responsibility for the three moose means the individuals are reckless hunters with no regard for the regulations of hunting.

Ed Seitz, the field conservation officer who investigated the moose shooting on Stewart Forest Service Road, says they do have some idea on how to find the person responsible.

“We have had some witnesses come forward and from the information they provided we know the moose was shot between 8:30 a.m. and 10:30 a.m. October 3. We also have the licence plate number of the person we believe may be responsible,” says Seitz.

He says the shooter still has the chance to do the right thing.

“We are just waiting for the information from the licence plate to come back, once that does, we will be talking with the person. Until then, they have the opportunity to report the incident themselves. We understand that mistakes can be made, but it's how you deal with them that determines what kind of person you are.”

[GoatGuy]

Hey maybe it's all legal.
FNs possibly?
It's ok. :mrgreen:

It's illegal to shoot an edible animal and fail to retrieve edible portions regardless of rights.

It is also frowned upon amongst consumptive users.

[Taurusguy]

I can't count how many times I have been unsure of animal species. Each time I am unsure I don't shoot. I will only shoot if I am 100% sure of my target. Any doubt whatso ever... Even if 99% sure, I will not shoot. Missed so many oppertunities because I was correct but my thought process and allocated time to identify in the moment couldn't put it together in time for me. O well. Better to be safe than sorry and I stress that a lot to my daughter when she has been with me and will do the same for my son when he starts joining me.

[adriaticum]

It's illegal to shoot an edible animal and fail to retrieve edible portions regardless of rights.

It is also frowned upon amongst consumptive users.

Lol, yes this law applies to you and I.
I have yet to find a law that applies to FNs and that they respect and treat as their own. :wink:
I'm just thinking maybe they are getting back to us for destroying all the bison in the prairies way back when.
I can't see any white guy having the balls (or being that stupid) and killing so many animals and leaving them there.
Unless it was those Surrey guys just target practicing.

[GoatGuy]

Lol, yes this law applies to you and I.
I have yet to find a law that applies to FNs and that they respect and treat as their own. :wink:
I'm just thinking maybe they are getting back to us for destroying all the bison in the prairies way back when.
I can't see any white guy having the balls (or being that stupid) and killing so many animals and leaving them there.
Unless it was those Surrey guys just target practicing.

There have been cases where FN charged for shooting and leaving wildlife, although sometimes the band wants to deal with disciplinary actions internally. From my experience it is frowned upon in FN groups.

[Sofa King]

It's illegal to shoot an edible animal and fail to retrieve edible portions regardless of rights.

It is also frowned upon amongst consumptive users.

those laws are not for ALL people.
the laws I have to follow mean nothing and don't apply to certain others that I see out there.

yes, NO meat/animal is supposed to be wasted, but let's be real, how often is it enforced against everyone?
I've personally heard certain folk say that they go out right before the general season opens and basically shoot everything they see so that whitey can't get any.
sadly, that is how some of them are.
but there's bad ones just as there are good ones in everything.

[lovemywinchester]

Lol, yes this law applies to you and I.
I have yet to find a law that applies to FNs and that they respect and treat as their own. :wink:
I'm just thinking maybe they are getting back to us for destroying all the bison in the prairies way back when.
I can't see any white guy having the balls (or being that stupid) and killing so many animals and leaving them there.
Unless it was those Surrey guys just target practicing.

A winking smiley face doesn't take away from your ignorant, racist, bull sh it comments Adriaticum. Knock it off or save it for your dinner table. No one here wants to hear this crap.

[TexasWalker]

A winking smiley face doesn't take away from your ignorant, racist, bull sh it comments Adriaticum. Knock it off or save it for your dinner table. No one here wants to hear this crap.

x2

and maybe find a new hobby.

2284 posts since march....wow.

I think I might try this ignore feature.

[betteroffishing]

im ok with it , dont find it racist at all in fact i find it enlightenned . it s like calling rosa parks a racist for complaining that all; the white people at the front of the bus wont let her join them . think about it .

[bccanadian]

I passed on a deer last year that the fellow I was hunting with claimed was a spiker. I couldn't see anything that would confirm his statement. I thought it was a doe and does weren't open, so I didn't shoot ....but neither did he and he was in as good or even better a position to take the shot. I ended up getting skunked last year but even afterwards I still wasn't sure so I don't regret passing on the shot.

[Rackem]

http://www.theprovince.com/life/bigotry+ingrained+bones/9028284/story.html

Racism against aboriginals in B.C. runs so deep that we barely recognize it. It’s in our DNA, it’s in our children’s vocabulary, it’s absorbed by new immigrants as soon as they land.

The stereotypes: Indians don’t work, don’t pay taxes. They’re ‘chugs’ — lazy drunken welfare bums. They’re chronically poor because they settle for handouts, and they deserve what they get.
Many average Canadians harbour these attitudes, legacies of racist policies baked into government laws that continue to reverberate throughout our institutions.
And the impacts are clear. Aboriginals are suffering more acutely than any other Canadian community, by any economic and health measure. Proportionately, they vastly overpopulate jails and the foster-care system. They die sooner and face the highest levels of poverty, disease and violence.
They are also the youngest, fastest growing group in Canada, with a median age of 28 compared to 41 for the rest of the population.

[Spy]

How do you find animals that you have shot in the dark of night? Its hard enough finding them during the day, when they have run aways off & died. If they dont drop on the spot you are screwed. Stop pit lamping and you will probably have a decline in dead animals left to rot.

[savagecanuck]

I personally don't like the spike fork designation.Way too many variables and poaching going on with regards to these moose.I would rather see more LEH draws for bulls and no GOS on spike fork.I hunt in the Stuart lk are in 3-12 8-11 Tons of bulls in there and every year lots of poaching going on.I passed on a 3X2 spiker because I was only 98% sure could not be sure on the other 2% so let it walk.I dont need the meat that bad but others don't seem to care. I am sick of reading about the poaching and nothing gets done same season every year and lots of moose shot and left to rot.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

If you want it to completely back to LEH, then you won't be hunting moose very often......if you're lucky enough to actually get drawn once in your lifetime.

SSS

[adriaticum]

A winking smiley face doesn't take away from your ignorant, racist, bull sh it comments Adriaticum. Knock it off or save it for your dinner table. No one here wants to hear this crap.

Yadda, yadda

[hawk-i]

There have been cases where FN charged for shooting and leaving wildlife, although sometimes the band wants to deal with disciplinary actions internally. From my experience it is frowned upon in FN groups.

Yes, I seem to remember a case of Big horn sheep being shot and left to rot by FN's hunters and their punishment was they received a "STERN" talking to from their Elders. I'll bet they will think twice before doing that again!!!!

[Jelvis]

Nothings equal anymore, at the mine here in kamloops (New Gold) they have 25% native hirings. 25% is one quarter of the work force. that's equal?
shoodn't it be 50% if it were really eqaul? half white half indians.

[dirtguy]

Yes, I seem to remember a case of Big horn sheep being shot and left to rot by FN's hunters and their punishment was they received a "STERN" talking to from their Elders. I'll bet they will think twice before doing that again!!!!

But he was probably also shunned by the entire community, 99.9% of natives are respectful hunters,just like the white hunters it's the .01% that causes all the problems.

[dirtguy]

you are a very creative troll... good job

[papaken]

Every FNs hunter I know would not leave the meat as they need it for their families. If it is legal for them to shoot game why would they leave it? More likely poor Ids by non-natives or just a$$holes with no ethics and they can come in any flavor.


Hey maybe it's all legal.
FNs possibly?
It's ok. :mrgreen:

[Sofa King]

actually that's more than equal because they work at about 1/8th the pace, if that.

[adriaticum]

Every FNs hunter I know would not leave the meat as they need it for their families. If it is legal for them to shoot game why would they leave it? More likely poor Ids by non-natives or just a$$holes with no ethics and they can come in any flavor.

Sure, every FN hunter or fisher I know would do the same, otherwise they wouldn't be in my circle of friends. But after what I've been seeing and reading about regarding abuseof natural resources by FNs I don't discount anything.
Everything is possible.
And yes I've seen abuse from all sides of the colour spectrum.

[Sofa King]

it's more than .01%, both in the indian community and ours.

[Wild one]

Hiring should not be done according to sex or race but instead who is best suited for the job. If the work force was 100% FN because they were better suited for the job that would be fine.

I know companies that have had to hire a % of FN do to a contract and unfortunately some of the FN hired use it as a reason to slack off or pull no shows. This is not the case with all and know many that were even kept on for other contracts because they were good workers. The only time I have heard of hiring a % of FN for a contract go really well was when 1 chief told my buddies company to fire any lazy FN because she would replace them with members of her band willing to work.

If 25% of the employees in this mine are FN because they were best suited for the job that is good but if it is because the mine was forced to hire 25% FN is that not racist?

[BimmerBob]

I smell a threadjack coming...

[papaken]

The few times I have found game that was left to rot did not see any natives around the area but sure did see a lot of non-natives. The 2 moose were both small rack 3 points and one of the deer was a 3 point the others were does. These ones were all shot within 50 yds of the road and easily retrievable (I always check what the ravens are on, out of curiosity). I think there may be some out there that don't know what they are doing. Had one fellow from the LML stop and ask if I had seen any cow elk as he had a leh. He was by himself, driving a small car. He asked me if cow elk were bigger than deer and did I think he would be able to haul it to road by himself???? I explained that he should find someone he knew that knew what they were doing and hunt with them for awhile to learn the ropes. It is scary how many people are out there that don't know what they are doing. I have known hunters that have not retrieved game but not for lack of trying and others that have found their game by returning the next day and finding it by careful searches or finding the ravens. One friend and I searched for a bull he had shot in the Chilcotin years ago but the wolves had made short work of it overnight.

[Phreddy]

Don't get me started adriaticum (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/member.php?188077-adriaticum)

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http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/statusicon/user-online.png .......lol

Hey maybe it's all legal.
FNs possibly?
It's ok. :mrgreen:

[Phreddy]

Actually Jel, I think that like anything else, it's better policy to hire/promote whoever the BEST applicant is regardless of quota factors. I saw the results of "preferential" hiring when I was in Corrections and it wasn't pretty. When you hear statements like "you can't hire/fire so and so because they're a white male, female, indian, east indian, Chinese, red, pink, orange, blue or yellow you know that the concept of skills has gone down the drain.

[HarryToolips]

The few times I have found game that was left to rot did not see any natives around the area but sure did see a lot of non-natives. The 2 moose were both small rack 3 points and one of the deer was a 3 point the others were does. These ones were all shot within 50 yds of the road and easily retrievable (I always check what the ravens are on, out of curiosity). I think there may be some out there that don't know what they are doing. Had one fellow from the LML stop and ask if I had seen any cow elk as he had a leh. He was by himself, driving a small car. He asked me if cow elk were bigger than deer and did I think he would be able to haul it to road by himself???? I explained that he should find someone he knew that knew what they were doing and hunt with them for awhile to learn the ropes. It is scary how many people are out there that don't know what they are doing. I have known hunters that have not retrieved game but not for lack of trying and others that have found their game by returning the next day and finding it by careful searches or finding the ravens. One friend and I searched for a bull he had shot in the Chilcotin years ago but the wolves had made short work of it overnight.
Your right it is scary when people don't know the regs, so it's all of our job people to talk to other hunters and if they don't know much about the game we pursue help em out and if their being lazy with reading the regs and stuff give em a hard time..I doubt these happenings lately were FN, obviously it was hunters making a mistake identifying and being too scared to report themselves.. I think in the bush we all gotta get a little more nosey into what others are doin during hunting season..

[.300WSMImpact!]

Hey maybe it's all legal.
FNs possibly?
It's ok. :mrgreen:

that would be my vote

[Phreddy]

I get a little antsy when I hear about folks challenging the CORE and some instructors putting on a course for a day, etc.. I may be a prick when it comes to grading the exams, but damn it I hunt in the same bush as everyone else and I'm really allergic to bullets. Break out in a bad case of holes if shot, so I want to make sure that by the time I'm finished with you you'd be someone I would want to be wandering around the bush with with firearms, etc.
Apparently there was someone at the mine up here a while ago that gave a CORE program in one evening for $10 a person. Had a massive group and from what I gathered everyone passed. Don't know who it was, but would sure like to find out and have a good talk with him/her. That's scary.

[Jelvis]

Most students study the CORE book at home and study period getting ready to challenge the exam Phred.
You can read it from front to back many times b4 writing it.
Duck identification, rifle handling, safety and regs and mu's etc.
I could ask you a core course question or show you a duck wing and you might not know it.
The mind forgets after a few short hours lol.
Jel .. What does C.O.R.E. stand for? Name the words off now. CORE made of four words

[adriaticum]

It's more important that experienced hunters mentor new hunters than taking the core. If you want to make sure everyone is safe in the bush take a new hunter out and show them the ropes.

[Phreddy]

Conservation Outdoor Recreation Education. The only problem Jel, is that while reading the book may give you some insight, I compare it to the art of flying an airplane. It's nice to read the instruction book, but I'd kinda like to get the opinion of a pilot who's actually flown one before attempting it. As Will Rogers liked to say, "There are 3 kinds of people out there. Those who learn by reading, those who learn by observing, and then there are aways those who have to piss on the electric fence to find out for themselves."
On another note, can you tell me what animal the book says is not found on Vancouver Island but actually has been found there on a number of occasions?

Most students study the CORE book at home and study period getting ready to challenge the exam Phred.
You can read it from front to back many times b4 writing it.
Duck identification, rifle handling, safety and regs and mu's etc.
I could ask you a core course question or show you a duck wing and you might not know it.
The mind forgets after a few short hours lol.
Jel .. What does C.O.R.E. stand for? Name the words off now. CORE made of four words

[Phreddy]

I often do exactly that. Just don't brag about it. On the other side of that coin, remember that we may be teaching them to make the same bad habits we might have picked up in our learning process as well.

It's more important that experienced hunters mentor new hunters than taking the core. If you want to make sure everyone is safe in the bush take a new hunter out and show them the ropes.

[adriaticum]

I often do exactly that. Just don't brag about it. On the other side of that coin, remember that we may be teaching them to make the same bad habits we might have picked up in our learning process as well.

Amen to that.

One thing I find different here in BC from hunting in Europe when I was a little squirt, is that there are a lot more solo hunters here.
Back in Europe it was more of a ritual, groups were bigger, there was a lot more opportunity for young hunters to get into groups and learn the ways of the gun.
There was always a barbeque at the end of the hunt and a lot more beer involved.
I guess here it's a lot more convenient to just get out on a day hunt, practically in your back yard, and find game.

[325]

Amen to that.

One thing I find different here in BC from hunting in Europe when I was a little squirt, is that there are a lot more solo hunters here.
Back in Europe it was more of a ritual, groups were bigger, there was a lot more opportunity for young hunters to get into groups and learn the ways of the gun.
There was always a barbeque at the end of the hunt and a lot more beer involved.
I guess here it's a lot more convenient to just get out on a day hunt, practically in your back yard, and find game.

One of my hunting partners is from Germany. The German hunting heritage is rich, and they have a lot of game, but far more rules and restrictions around its harvest. We are extremely fortunate in BC to have our incredible hunting situation, and freedom to hunt just about anywhere. I wouldn't trade our situation for any other.