Creston duck hunter mentor needed!

[Captainkf]

Hello all, I am new to the area but not hunting. I love goose hunting but would like to learn more about waterfowl hunting in the flats. I have read what I can, have all the liscences and tags but am very nervous hunting on the west end or the marsh due to the proximity to residences and people. Ant help or info would be grand! Please pm if you prefer. Thanks!

[Foxton Gundogs]

Get a range finder, 100M(110yds) from houses and animal barns your good to go.

[rogerb]

hunt the part of the creston wildlife management area north of highway 3 & you won't need to worry about proximity to houses, etc. depending on which end, north or south you want to go in you'll want either a mountain bike or small boat (canoe, kayak, etc.). we hunt both ends & you could spend a lifetime exploring the cwma wetlands & never really see it all. geese are plentiful but can be tough in there as they have no end of choices of where to land but a few times out scouting will tell you where they like to be. you'll just need to get there in the morning while they're out feeding in the fields down south then be waiting when they return. we're not very good with goose calls so we concentrate on mallards as almost any spot will provide decent shooting for them with a small decoy setup & any geese that fly in are a real bonus. take some slugs with you too as you never know what will walk out of the cattails. deer & black bear both common though the whitie doe season has knocked the deer population back a lot. the odd grizz walking about too from time to time so keep your wits about you. all in all, a great place to spend a day or much more.

[Captainkf]

Thanks for the feedback! I really appreciate it! Gives me an idea where to start.

[Ian F.]

Technically taking slugs duck hunting is breaking the law, nothing over t or f shot is legal if you are hunting migratory birds

[Captainkf]

If I have tags in my pocket for large game but am bird hunting, how is that a problem?

[Ian F.]

You are not allowed to possess lead shot, or a single projectile, or shot above a curtain size when waterfowling. You are waterfowling or you are not! To me this means the act if, so for instance if you where potholing and chicken hunting at the same time with steel and lead in the truck you'd be fine. However FOR ME I'd never want to have to explain to a judge why I had buckshot with me in the marsh. Remember shooting waterfowl at longer distances with buck shot is a poachers technique.

ultimately the choice is yours, you seem new to the game and I'm just giving you the same info I'd give anyone.

very best,

Ian

[Captainkf]

Thanks for the input Ian. Why is using larger sized steel shot considered a poachers tactic? I would think that steel is non toxic = good, larger shot size/ higher kill rate = less hurt and wounded animals which is also good. What am I missing and is it opinion or in the regs? Thanks!

[lorneparker1]

I'm not sure you can find buckshot in steel.

[Aheny]

He is misinformed. You are required to use a shotgun with non toxic shot. There are no rules regarding the size of the shot.

[heyblast]

I'm not sure about max. shot size,seem to recall something about it when I took hunter safety course in Ontario 40 years ago. Migratory bird act has been revised since then, Ian is probably right, but he is absolutely correct about not possessing toxic shot when hunting waterfowl. You will be charged. That said if I was hunting in bear country, going out in the dark to hunt waterfowl, well I don't know?

[Captainkf]

I know I can't possess lead shot. I have yet to read anything saying I can't carry slugs for hunting things other than wildfowl. So if you know where or what laws/requirements exist, please share.

What, if any, have been your experiences hunting birds from a boat on a river? 100 metre home law aside, what are your experiences?

Thanks all!

[fowl language]

the key word here is SHOT. meaning more then one pellet. just had this discussion with the game warden the other day....fowl

[Ian F.]

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._1035/index.html

[anotherone]

can you show me where in that or please point out where it says that i cannot carry a slug or buckshot whilst hunting for ducks and geese, cause i really cant find it

[heyblast]

15-Hunting methods and Equipment. Section 3 , no single bullet. I also can't find anything about maximum shot size. Don't know what the largest non toxic shot size is.

[anotherone]

again, that says i cannot hunt ducks or geese with it, not that you cannot carry them which is what Ian F is saying.
im pretty sure someone is mis informed when saying that you cannot carry any other shot with you, yes i can understand not carrying lead shot the size you would hunt ducks and geese with but buck shot and slugs wouldnt count for that, (although someone said buckshot is used by poachers) i hunt here in the EK for ducks and geese and one of the spots we have to walk into is great deer and bear and buckshot and slugs are carried.
Saying that you are not allowed to hunt one species while walking into a place to hunt ducks and geese isnt right.
i can see it now, the biggest buck of a hunters lifetime walks out on the trail----> OH damn i can shoot it because i am going to go hunt ducks and geese.

[lorneparker1]

It is a grey area forsure.

How bout this one Anotherone?

You go out to your spot, and shoot a few ducks. You get stopped by a CO on the way out with a few ducks in your possession and a bunch of lead buckshot in your possession. How do you think that conversation will go?

[albravo2]

It is a grey area forsure.

How bout this one Anotherone?

You go out to your spot, and shoot a few ducks. You get stopped by a CO on the way out with a few ducks in your possession and a bunch of lead buckshot in your possession. How do you think that conversation will go?

since we all pack our our spent shells it would be a simple matter of showing that the spent shells don't match the lead shells. even better if the hunter would have a few of the unspent steel shells that match the ones that have been fired.

[rides bike to work]

A co in the Creston wildlife reserve would probably understand as he would be aware of the amount of wild game deer bear in the area

[Foxton Gundogs]

I agree it is a grey area BUT I have asked the question on a number of occasions, different COs different areas of the Provence, the answer has always been the same. If you are carrying 2 or 3 Buckshot or slugs and have a chit pot full of steel either live and or spent they all said that there would be no issue. If on the other hand you are carrying a bunch of lead of any description look out.

[anotherone]

It is a grey area forsure.

How bout this one Anotherone?

You go out to your spot, and shoot a few ducks. You get stopped by a CO on the way out with a few ducks in your possession and a bunch of lead buckshot in your possession. How do you think that conversation will go?

Seriously? you actually think there would be an issue? so you have a few buckshot and you have been out duck hunting and you have spent shells from STEEL shot that you were using? there would be no issue whatsoever because it is not in any way illegal to carry buck shot, especially in a deer or bear area as well as ducks.
and also ive been checked and they have a little device they pass over the duck or animal that detects metal or lack there of, of the shot and see what shot it is.
its not illegal, nor is it a grey area its plain and simple

[fowl language]

so what if you were shooting grouse or pheasants as well as waterfowl. lead shot is legal for pheasants and grouse. I believe the co,s would have a hard time convicting any court with with those laws in place....fowl

[Ian F.]

First off, you can do whatever you want, I just offered info to help what seemed to be a new hunter.

Environmental laws are different then other laws, all the crown must do is prove the offence happened. Think guilty till proven innocent to keep it simple. So, if you are in the act of waterfowling, or still in an area where waterfowling would be your obvious activity (ie the average person it looks like you are duck hunting) and you have a single projectile or lead shot you have committed an offence, plain and simple. Now if you are in the same area, chasing big game, and to the average person it looks like you are chasing big game, you MAY not have committed an offence, as there are laws about lead use in areas where waterfowl normally inhabit. IF you are in the same area, chasing small game (pheasants, rabbits etc) and you appear to the average person to be chasing small game (i.e in orange), once again you may be committing an offence, and in this case, there's less may then with the big game.

Intent has a big place in this whole equation..what is your intent? is it clear, obvious? or a little muddy?

At the end of the day you do or do not get charge largely on how you act to CO and if there is an associated complaint with the reason they are there. For instance, the CO's happening upon you is one thing, the CO''s showing up because someone called in that you are longshoting ducks on the water and they found some empty buckshot cases from the last time you where there. You can then fight the charge in court which means you need to prove to the crown that you were in the right.

If you are obviously waterfowling and have anything but Non-toxic shot with you, you are breaking the law plain and simple.

If you have dead ducks in your truck and are now road hunting chickens with lead shot, you are fine as there is a break in the activities. However, do not be surprised if a CO questions you very heavy, maybe even cuts into a bird to check the shot or confiscates to check that there is no lead shot in the bird. Will this happen, goes back to how you act.

End of the day no two CO's interpret you and your actions in relation to the laws the same, just part of the system and the ultimate test is in front of a judge.

Myself I have no desire to push or test a law, I follow them and when in doubt err strongly to the side of caution. That is me...

Very best,

Ian

[anotherone]

Your Wrong Ian F.
you are putting an equation in that is not in question...Buckshot cases found from last time, which was not a question.
again it is not illegal to hunt more than one species at any one given time, i.e.,, hunting ducks and geese, then on the way in to the duck or goose pond and again on the way out to hunt deer or bear or whatever else is open.
,, you are putting your ethics into play and what is right or wrong in your own opinion, not the law
go ahead and do what is right for you.
simple

[lorneparker1]

Seriously? you actually think there would be an issue? so you have a few buckshot and you have been out duck hunting and you have spent shells from STEEL shot that you were using? there would be no issue whatsoever because it is not in any way illegal to carry buck shot, especially in a deer or bear area as well as ducks.
and also ive been checked and they have a little device they pass over the duck or animal that detects metal or lack there of, of the shot and see what shot it is.
its not illegal, nor is it a grey area its plain and simple


Just talking hypothetically man. I am not a CO, and you can do whatever you want! Just throwing that out there. If you think 100% of the time there would be no issue, you obviously haven't dealt with CO's much. You will find that laws like this amongst others are very subjective depending on the person questioning you.

[lorneparker1]

Your Wrong Ian F.
you are putting an equation in that is not in question...Buckshot cases found from last time, which was not a question.
again it is not illegal to hunt more than one species at any one given time, i.e.,, hunting ducks and geese, then on the way in to the duck or goose pond and again on the way out to hunt deer or bear or whatever else is open.
,, you are putting your ethics into play and what is right or wrong in your own opinion, not the law
go ahead and do what is right for you.
simple

Since you are so sure Ian is wrong, show me where you are right. Show me anywhere it says you can have lead shot while waterfowling in your possession.

I hear what you are saying with the on the way in and on the way out you may have some sort of leg to stand on there MAYBE. What i am saying is if you are sitting down hunting ducks (not on your way in or out) and you have lead shot in your pocket REGARDLESS if your spent shells or anything, and you say "These are for when we are on our way out if we see a deer, you COULD be in deep shit if the CO feels like making an example out of you, and wouldn't have a single leg to stand on. You are hunting waterfowl will in possession of lead shot THATS IT THATS ALL, like you said, NO GRAY AREA, what you are doing is 1000000% against the law.

[anotherone]

you obviously like the hypothetical questions, you obviously want to argue so here it is: no where does it say you can only hunt ducks if you are out hunting, no where in any regs does it say you cannot carry slugs or buck shot if your hunting ducks like IAN F said! he also said if your hunting ducks then thats it you cannot hunt anything else. those are the questions that were being argued.
you obviously didnt read that though did you, otherwise it wouldnt be a question. where does it say you cannot have lead in your posession? show me anywhere in any book! its against the law to shoot the migratory game birds with it, and yes i have dealt with the CO's and yes there is no question that you can carry lead, i can see if you are out on the island and duck hunting there is no need to carry lead but here in the kootenays where the question was asked we have lots of deer, bear and grouse on the way in and out of our duck hunting areas, so in your simple minded last paragraph where you said 1 million percent against the law is also wrong, ITS NOT AGAINST THE LAW TO HAVE LEAD IN YOUR POSESSION OTHERWISE THEY WOULDNT SELL IT now would they.
game as well as game birds are tested with a metal detector if there is a question wether or not they were shot with steel or lead.
want to argue some more?

[Ian F.]

Talk with a CO like this mr anotherone and I'm pretty sure I know how it'll go.

the law is clear, no single projectiles and no lead shot. It doesn't say that, because that is how laws are written, it says what you can use! In fact it breaks down non-toxic shot by type and metal content.

Like I've said all along you can do what you wish....

[lorneparker1]

Hi pal ole buddy,

I really don't want to argue with you, I am just trying to keep people from potentially getting in shit. Since you are so mad and I can imagine you almost frothing from the mouth, I will just point you to this website. Its a fairly important one when it comes to waterfowl hunting so book mark it.

The migratory Bird regulations of British Columbia

http://www.ec.gc.ca/rcom-mbhr/default.asp?lang=en&n=82220F4B-1

there is a paragraph that states

"In British Columbia, non-toxic shot must be used to hunt migratory game birds, except for Band-tailed Pigeons and Mourning Doves. Within
National Wildlife Areas, the possession of lead shot is prohibited for all
hunting including the hunting of migratory birds and upland game birds."

Now if you want to say "non toxic shot must be used to hunt migratory birds" and " it is illegal to have lead in your possession while hunting migratory birds" is not the same thing. Then ok you are right I am wrong. There is obviously no convincing you otherwise so do what you gotta do man!

As for the rest of your points.....

Yes they can still sell lead shot, because there are lots of things to shoot with it besides waterfowl.

The metal detector point is also moot. The law doesn't read if you kill a duck with lead you are breaking the law. It reads if you are hunting waterfowl with anything but non toxic shot you are. Which I think if you are hunting ducks, with decoys out, and a pocket full of buckshot IS breaking the lawn.. Sorry, but my simple mind still says 1 million percent :)

Here is the definition of hunting and non-toxic shot from the BC hunting synopsis. (another you should bookmark)

Hunt & Hunting
- includes shooting at,
attracting, searching for, chasing, pursuing, following
after or on the trail of, stalking, or lying
in wait for wildlife or attempting to do any of
those things, whether or not the wildlife is then
or subsequently wounded, killed or captured:
(a) with intention to capture the wildlife, or
(b) while in possession of a firearm or other
weapon.

Non-Toxic Shot
- means shotgun pellets
consisting of, by weight, not more than one
percent lead.

So... based on what is defined as "hunting" and " non toxic" in our provincial regulations, and how the regulation in the Migratory bird regulations in BC says "In British Columbia, non-toxic shot must be used to hunt migratory game birds" if you still think its legal to have lead buckshot with you while hunting ducks, im not sure what to say at this point.


Thanks for your time. Enjoy your continued stomping around the house with steam coming out of your ears.

[heyblast]

We're trying to help you here. This subject has been discussed before and no doubt will be again. The members responding are all waterfowl hunters, it's about the only hunting I do. Literally 99percent of my time spent hunting is for waterfowl. The Migratory Bird Act is federal, it controls the length of season, method of hunting and so on. It's very clear about possession of toxic shot. I just looked up Hevi Shot and they do make triple O Buck. That would solve any problem, except its expensive but you would only use for deer so really wouldn't be that bad.

[field marshal]

Talk with a CO like this mr anotherone and I'm pretty sure I know how it'll go.

the law is clear, no single projectiles and no lead shot. It doesn't say that, because that is how laws are written, it says what you can use! In fact it breaks down non-toxic shot by type and metal content.

Like I've said all along you can do what you wish.... I myself, will continue to do as I wish as I've taken a nice 4pt. while shooting mallards in a potato field!! Full rut, he walked right up to the blind! The deer stared at me as I unloaded duck loads from my model 12 and stuffed a SSG up the pipe! He folded up like a Vancouver Canuck at playoff time. I see nothing wrong with targeting more than 1 species at the same time while in the field?? Quote the regs all you guys want, nobody is going to be charged with an offense unless it can be proven they actually collected a bird with toxic shot. I wish the CO had of showed up after I shot that deer!!
Anybody ever dragged a deer out of a muddy potato field, wearing chest waders and carrying excess baggage around their gut???:mrgreen:
Cheers---Field Marshal.

[pnbrock]

never had my pockets checked while in the field.

[lorneparker1]

I myself, will continue to do as I wish as I've taken a nice 4pt. while shooting mallards in a potato field!! Full rut, he walked right up to the blind! The deer stared at me as I unloaded duck loads from my model 12 and stuffed a SSG up the pipe! He folded up like a Vancouver Canuck at playoff time. I see nothing wrong with targeting more than 1 species at the same time while in the field?? Quote the regs all you guys want, nobody is going to be charged with an offense unless it can be proven they actually collected a bird with toxic shot. I wish the CO had of showed up after I shot that deer!!
Anybody ever dragged a deer out of a muddy potato field, wearing chest waders and carrying excess baggage around their gut???:mrgreen:
Cheers---Field Marshal.

Wish I could a witnessed it! I also know people that carry buck shot while hunting ducks. (even on the island where apparently we don't see bears while duck hunting)

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u279/LorneP/1379681_10153312182495162_1461936625_n_zps19fc1800 .jpg (http://s170.photobucket.com/user/LorneP/media/1379681_10153312182495162_1461936625_n_zps19fc1800 .jpg.html)
those black dots are bears btw

as Ian said a ways back, anyone is allowed to do whatever they want. All that matters is how that CO, at that time, interprets the law And the probability that he might interpret it the way we are suggesting is real after all you are in the act of hunting ducks with something other than non toxic shells. On that note, hopefully common sense would prevail with the CO, and I think that if explained properly and the CO is in a good mood, probably no harm no foul. But if he wants to enforce the reg to the letter of the law, well that's probably a different story.

I am more concerned about wearing my seat belt to and from the field, then this regulation :)

[field marshal]

Wish I could a witnessed it! I also know people that carry buck shot while hunting ducks. (even on the island where apparently we don't see bears while duck hunting)

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u279/LorneP/1379681_10153312182495162_1461936625_n_zps19fc1800 .jpg (http://s170.photobucket.com/user/LorneP/media/1379681_10153312182495162_1461936625_n_zps19fc1800 .jpg.html)
those black dots are bears btw

as Ian said a ways back, anyone is allowed to do whatever they want. All that matters is how that CO, at that time, interprets the law And the probability that he might interpret it the way we are suggesting is real after all you are in the act of hunting ducks with something other than non toxic shells. On that note, hopefully common sense would prevail with the CO, and I think that if explained properly and the CO is in a good mood, probably no harm no foul. But if he wants to enforce the reg to the letter of the law, well that's probably a different story.

I am more concerned about wearing my seat belt to and from the field, then this regulation :)

I can't understand how anyone would deliberately flaunt our seatbelt laws?? You must be bankrupt of all Decency?????:mrgreen: Cheers----Field Marshal! P.S. Apologies to the OP for all the shameless HIJACKING of his original post!!!!

[Captainkf]

Hey, no problem. It is interesting to see how people interpret the laws regarding hunting and how here still is room for interpretation/misinterpretation. It's not just newbies or other expletives I have seen on this forum that can find make mistakes about the regs.

It seems my deer season is over so I am looking forward to bird hunting. Do those of you who hunt the marshes around here all have large decoy spreads or are you just waiting for low level flyers? I have some geese decoys from hunting geese in other regions but am wondering if that is required here for a successful day out here? Do you retrieve them yourself or use dogs?

Thanks all.

[Ian F.]

Dekes, any dekes make a big difference. You need some means to retrieve.