Wolves and Ethics, etc.

[Blair]

My dad taught me this 50 years ago, and since then I have always been a believer in "don't kill anything you aren't going to eat". However, I have been convinced by the numerous wolf discussions, and will certainly raise my gun and shoot next time a wolf presents itself. Then what? Do I leave it for it's buddies to eat? Do I take the hide and have it tanned? I don't really even want a hide. Is the hide worth enough to take it out and sell it? What does the average HBCer do/think?

[fyffer]

i would keep the skull as i think those are pretty neat, and leave the rest for the other animals to eat

[BlacktailStalker]

A nice prime interior/northern wolf will get ya $400 for a good Hyde. $100 bounty in some areas and a bit of satisfaction knowing you 'helped' what you like to hunt a bit.

[russm]

Get it stuffed and donate it to a scout group.

[takla1]

The wolf I shot up the valley behind Dewdney 2 yrs ago was brim full of blacktail deer.that was one of our worst yrs for blacktail and it was obvious why after I nailed him.These things are killing machines and they target the ungulates so my way of looking at it im in competition with them for my winter meat.The fact that they have larger litters they prolificate quickly and even a small pack can take down many deer\moose per yr.Cyottes on high on my predetor kill list as well

[skibum]

You can drop them off in front of the door here:

RainCoast
216-2506 Beacon Ave,
Sidney, BC
V8L 1Y2

[Mr. Dean]

To be in compliance, you're supposed to retain the hide of a fur-bearer.

I've written and copied all the governing departments, heads, and even Christy herself!, asking for them to reconsider this requirement in their endeavours to increase the hunter harvest rates - I got a reply thanking me and that suggestions would be considered, but I'm not sure if it made it....

I personally would welcome any fur (coyote or wolf) that is usable for projects that I have planned. One of them will require several pelts and I don't need heads, tails or legs attached (read: simple skinning!!), just good, tight fur..... And I live in Langley.

[Mr. Dean]

And wolf skulls ARE uber-kewl!

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/DSC4579_Mr_Dean_web.jpg

[smeegle]

I personally wouldn't shoot a wolf even if the opportunity would present itself. I dont kill anything i cant eat and for me hunting is a privalege, yes I do enjoy the taste of game but unfortunately for wolves there isn't a supermarket they can go to find fresh dead meat at. They normally target the young or the sick anyways so their killing off the weaker gene pool to start with if the prey population is healthy enough. I wrote a thesis on them for my undergraduate degree and actually my case study was on their reintroduction into yellowstone and how it positively impacted the park. While this is not the case for BC there are a multitude of other reasons that accentuate the wolf predation, such as beetle kill which removes the leaves and cover for moose and game to find refuge in from both hunters and predators or the fact that massive clear cut logging, and new logging roads (just came back from region 5 west of Williams lake and its pretty eye opening) has opened up a tremendous amount of new areas easily accessed by hunters and predators a like to moose population areas. This is jut my opinion though, and everyone is entitled to their own and that is what makes this country we live in so great! happy hunting everyone and I hope your getting ready for the rut!

[Highbeta]

I wondered the same thing on a recent hunt..This bad boy turned towards my position as I was alone, 10 minutes before total darkness.. I had hoping for a wolf after I missed an opportunity last year and I didn't hesitate twice.

http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx302/actionman_1/IMG_00000619_zpsc7394481.jpg (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/actionman_1/media/IMG_00000619_zpsc7394481.jpg.html)

Thankfully, I achieved suitable penetration with the 180gr xp3 bullet from my .300 WSM :-) (glad nobody replied to my for sale thread, because this ammo was absolutely hammering game for me this season!)

A friend of mine who has plenty of experience trapping looked over the hide with me.. he felt it was borderline in terms of the transition to a nice winter coat - almost there, but still a noticeable quantity of summer coat still there, falling out when grabbed etc.

He agreed though, that the head was a beauty! Nice chompers and whatnot, good size etc. I am excited to get the skull back, nicely bleached.

Nailing this guy was damn near as exciting as dropping my first bull elk a few days before!

With wolves, I wouldn't overthink it, given their numbers in our province and their impact on game animals, livestock etc.

Cheers

[TexasWalker]

their reintroduction into yellowstone and how it positively impacted the park.

Positive??

They decimated the largest herd of rocky mountain elk in the world.(not to mention the cattle)

How is that positive?

[Singleshotneeded]

Shoot to kill, ask questions later... :-)

[Rackem]

unfortunately for wolves there isn't a supermarket they can go to find fresh dead meat at. They normally target the young or the sick anyways so their killing off the weaker gene pool to start with if the prey population is healthy enough. I wrote a thesis on them for my undergraduate degree and actually my case study was on their reintroduction into yellowstone and how it positively impacted the park.population areas.

I am glad there is no supermarket for wolves, or a feeding program, because, less wolves is the goal, not more.

What planet are you from where they primarily eat the sick and young, weaker gene pool animals? I personally watched as a pack of wolves tore apart a healthy adult Moose and her calf. Eating them before they were dead. The wolf kills I have seen were all healthy large animals not young weak or sick.

I suppose English was not your major.

Happy hunting to you, hope you get good eats.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Positive??

They decimated the largest herd of rocky mountain elk in the world.(not to mention the cattle)

How is that positive?

There was a need to reduce the elk #'s in the park....but what they accomplished was like doing a prescribed burn in the middle of August. They needed to manage the wolves once they reached their target goals but they intentionally delayed the whole thing until....well...the prescribed burn in their backyard burned down the whole neighbourhood and effin' town. They got what "they" wanted and then some.:roll:

I just heard story that happenned in one of the alpine areas in the north OK this fall. A guy shot buck, packed out half and then came back for the ssecond half. Well, there were 6 wolves feeding on the carcass. He just walked up to the carcass and the wolves began circling around him and growling and acting aggressive.
No shots were fired as he didn't know want a wolf:confused:.

I would have waited until 3 wolves were lined up and BANG! Of course, my wolf shooting record speaks for itself and I probably would have missed all 3.

SSS

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Right. In places where a pack of wolves can chase and entire heard around for a long time, they might end up killing the straggler in the bunch...but(to smeegle) how does this idealism work when they reduce an entire population of ungulates by 60-75%??? 60-75% are old, sick and weak???
Please explain.

SSS

[Lionhill]

This is the text of a safety alert that went out yesterday from the Kamloops fire district.


Close Call - Wolf Pack Encounter Location: Near Merritt BC, Lower Michael Road, BCTS ChartDate of Incident: 15/10/2013
Details of Incident: Forest Worker had just started a road traverse and was approximately 100m from truck when at least 5 aggressive wolves came within 3m of her. She called her dogs and reached for her bear spray. One of her dogs stayed with her while the other barked and started fighting with the wolves. She went to the truck with the one dog and called for help on the local radio channel on her handheld radio. When she got to the truck she called the dog that had been defending her and it came. It had sustained major injuries and had to be put down. The worker was not physically injured.
Recommended Preventative Actions:
 Raise your arms and wave them in the air to make yourself appear large, use a loud firm voice and try to convince the animals you are a threat, not prey.
 Back away slowly and do not turn your back on the wolves.
 Make noise, throw sticks and rocks at the wolves.
 Use your bear mace if they come close enough.
 Call for help on the radio and let someone know where you are.  Do up an incident report and discuss with crew

[Drillbit]

Many people want to enjoy their favorite venison but will not drop the hammer on the "varmints/predators" like wolves and coyotes; or hunt the taggable ones like bear and cougar. Want to become a better hunter? Take up hunting the predators as well....

I agree. Great practice.

Eating what you shoot... What about shooting the competition of your food sources too? ie gophers eating crops, wolves eating big game, black bears eating calves/fawns.

There are many reasons to hunt and kill animals, eating them is only one of them.

[hawk-i]

The only good wolf is a dead wolf...didn't John Wayne say something like that? As for eating everything you kill...as a kid I've shot literally thousands of gophers, haven't yet to date tasted gopher!

[smeegle]

gopher killing makes sense if you are protecting your farm area or livestock but I don't make a habit of going out and killing things just for fun no general purpose seems like a waste to me. otherwise I would go out and waste a couple deer or moose just to say I did. and to stone sheep steve
my comment

"they normally target the young or the sick anyways so their killing off the weaker gene pool to start with if the prey population is healthy enough."

was referring to the fact that wolves will target the sick and young first and then take the healthy. But they are an opportunistic feeder so it doesn't really matter at all.

Also Rackem I didn't realize this was a critique of people's writing abilities on forums, as I am writing this on my phone mistakes do happen. Please look to your own spelling mistakes before calling out someone else's.

[brutus]

eat what you kill lol,what about flies and moskitos i guess there prety good in a soup lol.sorry i had too:mrgreen:

[bandit]

There are many reasons to hunt and kill animals, eating them is only one of them.

Totally agree. If we humans are going to harvest certain parts of the food chain (deer) we need to be aware that other parts of the food chain (wolves, cedar saplings, etc) will need to be managed too in order to restore natures equilibrium.

Morally I would have have no issue leaving an animal to rot in the bush providing that a) it was inedible and b) was adversely affecting other parts of the ecosystem.

[smeegle]

touche brutus, touche

[Darksith]

gopher killing makes sense if you are protecting your farm area or livestock but I don't make a habit of going out and killing things just for fun no general purpose seems like a waste to me. otherwise I would go out and waste a couple deer or moose just to say I did. and to stone sheep steve my comment hey normally target the young or the sick anyways so their killing off the weaker gene pool to start with if the prey population is healthy enough.
was referring to the fact that wolves will target the sick and young first and then take the healthy. But they are an opportunistic feeder so it doesn't really matter at all.
so you are now saying they don't target anything, and are opportunistic...well which is it man? Only when talking about herd animals will wolves target the easy 1. It doesn't have to be old, sick or weak, but usually those are the first to fall away from a moving heard. The wolves will simply select a prey, get it separated from the pack and then its dinner time. When talking with BC and our large woodland animals that are not heard animals, wolves will eat whatever they bump into. You are contradicting yourself, and bang flopping a wolf to protect cows and our local ungulates isn't any different than shooting a gopher to protect your farm. BC is my farm. If you don't wanna shoot a wolf, why put in your 2 cents on a topic that isn't asking "would you shoot a wolf" but rather asking "what to do with it once I shoot it"

[Rackem]

Sorry about the English major comment, I guess it was a bit mean. I just find it hard to read a lot of posts that have no spacing, capitalization, and spelling errors, but that is my problem, not yours.

[hawk-i]

LOL...gopher stew with mosquito gravey....I've actually eaten lots of mosquito's while driving motorcycles...really not much taste to them!Smeegle, why would you go out to waste a deer when they taste so good? That argument doesn't have much merit to it, also keep in mind that a wolf will eat an average of 8 lbs of meat per day to keep healthy and breed. That adds up to around 3000 lbs per year per wolf....pretty easy to see why the yellowstone elk herd has gone from over 15,000 animal to less than 5,000 since wolves have been reintroduce. If you want to have a good number of deer, elk, and moose to enjoy your chosen sport of hunting, killing a few wolves will help. Trying to be Liberal brainwashed politically correct won't!.

[Blair]

Wow, I thought this would start some intersting posts, but it went beyond my expectations. I agree with the vast majority here and, as I said (and Darksith noticed), I will shoot given the chance. And if the pelt is worth $400, that would be a real bonus. I could replace some of my old gear, or put gas in my truck to go hunting! Thanks for all the comments!
PS - I assume it is legal for a hunter (no trapping licence) to sell wolf pelts??
Maybe we should target wolves as the primary game and shoot any legal ungulates we come across in the meantime.

[smeegle]

And it appears my green friendly brother has hacked my account I left on, I was wondering why I had a few messages in the inbox and a heated discussion. I am for the culling of wolves, just goes to show make sure your passwords aren't saved and your web browsers are closed everyone!

[BiG Boar]

Ethically as hunters, my opinion is that if you can shoot a wolf and don't, you should give up your deer tag to the wolf as he's going to need to eat your deer. Everyone should do their part to help balance the ecosystem. I shot a few this year so far and have sold them all easily. Not making a boat load of cash, but its just nice to see someone else use them.

[Rackem]

And it appears my green friendly brother has hacked my account I left on, I was wondering why I had a few messages in the inbox and a heated discussion. I am for the culling of wolves, just goes to show make sure your passwords aren't saved and your web browsers are closed everyone!

OMG! LOL! Then who was I just talking to???

[BimmerBob]

And it appears my green friendly brother has hacked my account I left on, I was wondering why I had a few messages in the inbox and a heated discussion. I am for the culling of wolves, just goes to show make sure your passwords aren't saved and your web browsers are closed everyone!

Hey Smeegle, it sounds like your brother should be introduced to a "green" willow branch just to make sure he doesn't hack your account again! And for being stupid but some people just gotta deal with things I guess... ;)

[Rackem]

LOL a green willow branch indeed!!! What a twit!

[smeegle]

You can choose your friends but not your family unfortunately

[Rackem]

You can choose your friends but not your family unfortunately

Ain't that the truth!

[Kudu]

And it appears my green friendly brother has hacked my account I left on, I was wondering why I had a few messages in the inbox and a heated discussion. I am for the culling of wolves, just goes to show make sure your passwords aren't saved and your web browsers are closed everyone!

Slap the bugger!!!:mrgreen:

[TexasWalker]

And it appears my green friendly brother has hacked my account I left on, I was wondering why I had a few messages in the inbox and a heated discussion. I am for the culling of wolves, just goes to show make sure your passwords aren't saved and your web browsers are closed everyone!
BS!!!
Guys have tried to back track on comments made here before by saying somebody 'hacked' their account.

This isn't the first time you have expressed this opinion.
example:
you posted this in 2007

"well... im sorry if it came off ignorant but i dont think highly of trophy hunters.. im a hunter but i hunt because i enjoy the outdoors and if i happen to take an animals life its just a bonus because the meat it will provide will be greatly appreciated and enjoyed? how about the grizzly hunters/or any trophy hunters, granted some trophy huters do try and deal with the eat even though it may not be the best? they take pictures the hide and leave the rest? i think if you are going to take an animals life you should be responsable for it and use as much of the carcass as possible."

Are we to believe that your brother hacked in to make that comment too??

Gimme a break.

At least be a man and stand by your opinion no matter what it may be,we are all entitled to our own opinion.

Standing up for your beliefs is much more respectable than lying.

[Rackem]

I don't know, I have had an annoying sibling use my account (not here) and talk to my friends and say stupid sh*t to them...

I still find it suspicious that someone who claims a university degree and thesis writing would write like that...all the question marks like a little girl uptalking...like this one time? In band camp?

The lack of capitalization, punctuation, paragraph structure and spelling errors is odd...generally people who write thesis have a lot better English writing skills.

[Blair]

I don't know, I have had an annoying sibling use my account (not here) and talk to my friends and say stupid sh*t to them...

I still find it suspicious that someone who claims a university degree and thesis writing would write like that...all the question marks like a little girl uptalking...like this one time? In band camp?

The lack of capitalization, punctuation, paragraph structure and spelling errors is odd...generally people who write thesis have a lot better English writing skills.

Don't you mean 'theses'? Or perhaps 'thesises'? Sorry but I couldn't resist!

[phoenix]

I think the plural is thesi:)
Kim

[Rackem]

:) Like Peni? Mooseses? Heck I didn't graduate Grade 12 til I went blind many years later, I never attended any university or wrote a thesis, or theses, or thesi....

[Blair]

I like your sense of humour.

[phoenix]

I think it's Meese, as in "I tink I saw a gaggle of Meese"
Kim

[brutus]

Lmao,my writing sucks maybe its because I am French.oui oui I tought this was a hunting forum not English class.i stick to my story French or English

[adriaticum]

I want a fur coat! :)

[Surrey Boy]

I want a fur coat! :)

And seat covers, a couch, hat, purse, cushions, winter blanket.

[brutus]

i want a full head mount on my harleys headlight that would look cool and moose antlers for handlebars

[Rackem]

How about elk antlers?

http://www.discoveryuk.com/dni-media/mu-64/media-71252-256897.jpg

[chilcotin hillbilly]

gopher killing makes sense if you are protecting your farm area or livestock but I don't make a habit of going out and killing things just for fun no general purpose seems like a waste to me. otherwise I would go out and waste a couple deer or moose just to say I did. and to stone sheep steve
my comment

"they normally target the young or the sick anyways so their killing off the weaker gene pool to start with if the prey population is healthy enough."

was referring to the fact that wolves will target the sick and young first and then take the healthy. But they are an opportunistic feeder so it doesn't really matter at all.

Also Rackem I didn't realize this was a critique of people's writing abilities on forums, as I am writing this on my phone mistakes do happen. Please look to your own spelling mistakes before calling out someone else's.

Smeegle, your are so uninformed you are killing me. Last year while cougar hunting I found 3 dead muledeer does killed about 1/2 mile apart they only ate the last one. This is a very common occurance with wolves. The last big snow year here in 2005 the wolves killed 21 does and fawns on one hillside and left with only eating a few pounds of meat off a couple deer.
You really need to give your head a shake if you believe what the anti wolf hunters are promoting

[Rackem]

He said it was his brother, hacking his account...

[frenchbar]

his green brother to boot ..not likely lol little leg pullin me thinks...

[brutus]

trust senior to have elk antlers on his handlebars,left over kill from yellowstone maybe??????

[Big Lew]

Smeegle, your are so uninformed you are killing me. Last year while cougar hunting I found 3 dead muledeer does killed about 1/2 mile apart they only ate the last one. This is a very common occurance with wolves. The last big snow year here in 2005 the wolves killed 21 does and fawns on one hillside and left with only eating a few pounds of meat off a couple deer.
You really need to give your head a shake if you believe what the anti wolf hunters are promoting

Canines, including wolves when in packs, will chase down and kill or maim anything that runs from them. I don't know if it's because of their evolutionarily survival tuning, or if it's actually an adrenalin-fueled 'game' to them. Either way, I also have witnessed the aftermath of this type of wasteful carnage. I've wondered for many years if many of those individuals that make emotional decisions to promote 'save and protect the majestic wolf' would still do so if they actually witnessed a pack of wolves laying carnage to a band of deer as above mentioned, and only eating from a few. It doesn't have to be wolves either....I helped clean up a flock of sheep that were chased down over several hundred yards by a pack of dogs. (during a full moon) Four were killed and three were ripped up badly. None were eaten. The suspected dogs were from different properties, were impounded, and found to have sheep wool in their stools. An 'out of court' settlement was negotiated in favour of the farmer.
Weasels are the only other land predator I'm aware of that actually seems to kill for fun.

[brutus]

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_wolves_in_Yellowstone&action=edit&section=12)]
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Wolves_and_elk.jpg/220px-Wolves_and_elk.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wolves_and_elk.jpg)
http://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.22wmf20/skins/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wolves_and_elk.jpg)
Yellowstone wolves chasing a bull elk


During 2000–2004, the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks reduced antlerless permits by 51% from 2,882 to 1,400. More recently, it proposed only 100 permits for 2006 which is a 96% decrease from the 2,660 permits issued in 1995. Initially, the effects of wolf predation on elk during the first five years of the recovery were not detected, as elk numbers were identical to those of 1980–1994. From the winter of 1995 to the winter of 2004 however, the elk greatly decreased in number, dropping from 16,791 to 8,335 as the number of wolves on the northern range increased from 21 to 106, though predation from bears, increased human harvests, winter and droughts were also factors. Since 2000, 45% of known deaths and 75% of predation-caused deaths of radio collared cow-elk have been confirmed to be attributable to wolves. Human caused deaths in the same period accounted for 8–30% of known deaths. Yellowstone elk comprise up to 92% of the winter diet of wolves, the overall kill rates of Yellowstone wolves on elk in winter being estimated at 22 ungulates per wolf annually. This is higher than the 12 ungulates per wolf rate predicted in the ESA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESA).[3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_wolves_in_Yellowstone#cite_note-34)does that look like a sick elk?????For people that need education on wolf read the full pages.kill them all then reintroduce them,then remember why we killed them all and start killing them again.how ironic is that???????wolf are born to kill period and if nothing is done we will be eating only beef soon.

[finaddict]

Man.......tough audience. ;-)

Wolves? in range? bang, flop (hopefully), skull and cape (if decent).

Reload, repeat as necessary

[finaddict]

Is it just me, or does the lower light coloured wolf in the pic chasing the elk look like its wearing a collar???

[BearStump]

without looking it up myself. Does anyone have a quick answer? Is it legal to shoot a wolf and leave it to rot whole in the bush? Are you required to remove hide?edible portions?

[Cookie1965]

Of grizzly bear, cougar or a furbearing animal other than
a black bear, the hide must be removed
to the person’s normal dwelling place or
to a meat cutter, the owner or operator
of a cold storage plant or to a taxidermist,
tanner or a fur trader. A person who kills
wildlife is exempted from the require-
ment to remove the hide if that person
transfers possession of the wildlife to
another person who complies with the
requirement.

[Cookie1965]

Furbearing Animal
- means a fox, beaver,
black bear, marten, fisher, lynx, bobcat, mink,
muskrat, river otter, raccoon, striped and
spotted skunk, northern flying squirrel, red and
Douglas’ squirrel, ermine, weasel, wolverine,
wolf or coyote.

[phoenix]

without looking it up myself. Does anyone have a quick answer? Is it legal to shoot a wolf and leave it to rot whole in the bush? Are you required to remove hide?edible portions?
Without looking it up myself, I believe it is considered a furbearer and as such you must take the hide back to your "dwelling place". Once you get it there you can do with it what you want.
Kim

[Rackem]

Dogs love to kill for fun. They don't have moral objections or conservation in mind. Wolves are dogs too. Have you ever seen what an untrained dog or wolf will do if they have access to a confined bunch of sheep with no protector?

Dogs killed 120 sheep out of this flock. They had no need or even desire to eat them. It was just fun chasing and killing them. Such a fun dog game!

http://static.fairfaxrural.com.au/multimedia/images/large/1430542.jpg

[Big Lew]

Dogs love to kill for fun. They don't have moral objections or conservation in mind. Wolves are dogs too. Have you ever seen what an untrained dog or wolf will do if they have access to a confined bunch of sheep with no protector?

Dogs killed 120 sheep out of this flock. They had no need or even desire to eat them. It was just fun chasing and killing them. Such a fun dog game!

http://static.fairfaxrural.com.au/multimedia/images/large/1430542.jpg
There you go, thanks for posting the pictures and fortifying my comments.

[Rackem]

There you go, thanks for posting the pictures and fortifying my comments.

Yer Welcome! :)

[smeegle]

believe what you want i guess. opinions and views are like assholes everyone has them and some are shittier then others haha!

[Rock Doctor]

believe what you want i guess. opinions and views are like assholes everyone has them and some are shittier then others haha!


Ah, yes, and don't forget that, except for yours, they all stink. lol

RD

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Hey Smeegle! Ask Rock Doctor how he catches wolves. Just like catching fish. Got to use the right bait while trolling:-?.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?17807-Wolf-Attack

SSS