Question on "Is it legal or not"?

[frase]

Fairly straight forward question regarding spike/fork bull open season. My partner and I were hunting and a couple of days before spike fork open season we came across a small bull, probably a calf as its mother was near it, and it had bumps about 1". The next day, also before opening season we came across a 5 x 2 trying to breed a cow. Then, on opening morning we came across a cow and about 50 yards away was another smaller moose with one tine about 2.5 to 3 inches long with bone protruding. All animals were within 25 -150 yds and were confirmed by spotting scope. Of course the first and second sightings were a no brainer as the season was not open. However, it did stimulate discussion between us as to whether or not the small bull could be harvested. We easily came to the conculsion that the answer was "no". We also passed on the one we saw on opening morning as we came to the conclusion it was a calf. I discussed this with a friend after we got home and he mentioned it to a number of other people who all felt it was legal as a "spike bull". Please tell me we were correct. Thanks.
Frase

[alpinetreker]

yup it was legal

[haber]

Spike is legal

[xtrail]

legal bull for sure.

[Sofa King]

coulda been eating moose.

[sarg]

it pays to read the reg and understand them, to bad that could have being good eating :)

[E.V.B.H.]

Definitely legal, if the season was open the 5x2 would have been legal as well.

[northernhunter]

Sounds like tag soup, shoulda shot him.:-D

[Rock Doctor]

Legal to shoot

[6 K]

I'd a killed it

[tundra]

If there were three tags and the season was open all three would have been shot. All were legal

[frase]

Further to my original post the regs state that "Spike-Fork bull does NOT include a calf". I think it was a calf. Talk to me more please?

[Jager]

Don't the regs say spike/fork??? 5x2 -->2 = fork....legal.

[coach]

If there were three tags and the season was open all three would have been shot. All were legal

The calf was not legal -not without visible bony antlers. But the other two were.

[Lillypuff]

Only sounds like one was legal as 2 to 3 inches of antler could have been nubs

[frase]

Sorry to keep going back to this but this but the regs exclude "calves"! A calf is less than 5 ft, and weighs between 200-300 lbs. Also, both the small ones we saw were with or near their moms. The 2 small ones and in particular the one on opening day were "calves" and we interpreted as it being illegal as you cannot shoot a calf bull, even if it is a spike. Right or am I missing something.

[Rhyno]

Sorry to keep going back to this but this but the regs exclude "calves"! A calf is less than 5 ft, and weighs between 200-300 lbs. Also, both the small ones we saw were with or near their moms. The 2 small ones and in particular the one on opening day were "calves" and we interpreted as it being illegal as you cannot shoot a calf bull, even if it is a spike. Right or am I missing something.

I believe the defining characteristic is "bony" antler not fuzz covered nubbin. The first one would not be legal but the last two would be. Just because its with a cow and its young doesn't mean its a calf....lots of spike/forks (1 1/2 year olds) are shot in the company of a cow. I would have dropped the one on opening day.

Better safe than sorry if you were unsure though.

[f350ps]

Coach nailed it!! K

[beeker]

The regs clearly state the definition:

Moose - Spike-fork Bull- means a bull moose having no more than two tines on one antler. (Includes tines on main antler and brow palms.) Does not include a calf.

*page 4 of the regs. Even includes a diagram and definition of a calf if you are still unsure.

[browning308mag]

if there is bone seen...then legal

[300rum700]

Calves dont have antlers. Just legal immies do.

[boxhitch]

Sorry to keep going back to this but this but the regs exclude "calves"! A calf is less than 5 ft, and weighs between 200-300 lbs. Also, both the small ones we saw were with or near their moms. The 2 small ones and in particular the one on opening day were "calves" and we interpreted as it being illegal as you cannot shoot a calf bull, even if it is a spike. Right or am I missing something.Sounds like you judged this young one to be less than a year old , born in the spring of this year , yet it still had 3" bony antlers.
The intent of the reg is to protect the new born calves so they have the protection of the mother through the first winter. If it was a calf , you did the right thing.
But , it would be a rare find for a calf to have antlers. I can't say it would never happen . I never say never when it comes to wildlife.
Don't go by size comparison alone. Cows vary in size with age , we've had cows on the gallows that were bigger than a young palmated bull.
Small short face on a calf is also a clue.

[Taylor69]

The name spike/fork says it all! You saw a spike...........boom!

i read the regs every year and have done almost every year since I started hunting big game. Keeps it all fresh. If I go to a new area I read that area again for all species I may be after!

[Steeleco]

"Better to live with regret than guilt" You did the right thing under the circumstances. The "tennis balls" don't count but the others do.

I once put a sneak on what I thought was a really big cow moose hoping to see if she had a boyfriend. Turned out this BULL had one 8" spike on the right side. By the time it registered in my feeble frozen mind, it was gone. The next day we saw a bigger moose that was obvious it was closed as Reg 3 was spikes only. Till it turned it's head and was sporting a fork on the other side. Both were good to shoot.

I regret not being faster, but it makes for a good laugh these days!!

[Taylor69]

The second and third were legal, the first one was a calf. Bull calves have bumps where they will grow antlers. They are 2-3 inches in diameter and are 2-3 high or there abouts. If they are bumps which hair on them it is a bull calf. If there is any bony antler, 2 pts or less, then it is a spike fork legal bull. I have only ever seen bull calves with "hair covered protuberances". A bull calf with some boney mass may exist, anything is possible I guess.
always good to error on the side if caution, your kicking yourself now, but can you imagine what you would be doing if you shot an animal you weren't allowed to harvest?

lots if times you see an immy with a cow, it's probably it's mom. Hasn't been pushed off by a big bull yet.

[MB_Boy]

Nubs, bumps or tiny little velvet "spikes" (whatever you want to call them).....if it has a short nose/snout, save yourself from getting dinged and don't shoot it; plain and simple.

I don't think you're going to win that argument with a CO too terribly often. :wink:

[Taylor69]

If you want to get really crazy about definitions here is a different story for you.
now, as per the norm an immature bull is about 1.5 years old. We have all seen as some point a big bull with bad genetics or whatever. I've seen pics of big bodied moose that were 8x2's and such that weight over 500 pounds on the hook. Definitely not yearlings, but legal "immys". Probably 3-5 years old. The system is set up to leave more mature bulls for breeding.

my dad and I were hunting in region 7, just getting light out rushing to a spot. We jump a bull on the road, he is standing broadside to us. He has a big paddle! We're saying nice big bull! We were there for immys and calves.
he turns and shows us he has nothing on the other side. He may have grown that way, but we assumed it came off when he was fighting. This was around oct. 10-17 so rutting hard.
i turned to dad and said, is he legal? Two points or less on one side is the definition. This bull has zero on one side.
he said no, I'm thinking huge gray area here, but agreed and moved off. Didn't get excited at the time just spit balling. A CO comes by the next day and says YES it would have been legal.
we get home after the trip and dad calls one of the offices and they say YES it would have been legal.

even now I'm not sure I would pull the trigger, I'd think someone would say I pulled off to make it legal.

[coach]

A calf with "nubs".. Click to play

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg633/coach1000/th_WGI_0310_zps599dd6d2.jpg (http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg633/coach1000/WGI_0310_zps599dd6d2.mp4)