Learn the regs before you hunt!!

[skinarama]

I was comming out of the bush (after last light) the other night and came up on a truck parked in the middle of the road. Then I see this guy scrambling out the bush with a very clean and new butcher knife set in his arms. I pulled over to see if he needed help, and he was extatic as he just shot his first moose. He said this was his first kill and that he really needed some help, so I strapped a headlamp on and got ready to give him a hand. I was excited as well, because I had yet to try out my new 10,000 pound winch on my jeep! Before we got going, a few more hunters in trucks showed up, and I knew some of them, so we all went looking for the moose. The guy said he saw 3 cows and then this bull with "spikes" so he dropped him. One in the neck, and then a head shot on the ground to finish the job. Well, we walk 70 yards across the clear cut to the moose, and what a beauty. I saw the 6x6 rack of paddles on it, and immediatly said congrats on filling his LEH any bull draw. He says "Whats an LEH draw?" Uh-oh, I told him in this region its 2point or less immature bulls only, and he said "No, the regs say 2 points or more for a spike bull." What a meatball. After he calmed down from learning he poached this magnificent beast, I had to teach him how to gut the moose. He didn't even know how to use a knife - even though he had a shiny new butchering set! Oh, we would have called the CO's right away, but were 15 kms from cell service. So, once gutted, I got to play with my winch to drag the moose to the road. We were debating on quartering it where it layed, but I thought the CO's would want it whole. My truck and winch worked amazing, and we had the moose in the back of his truck in 10 minutes - whole! I then told the guy to get to cell service and turn himself in for what he did, and so this animal could be butchered and used while the meat was still good. I phoned it in as soon as I hit service, as I know there were a few trucks who saw my truck with his, and I do not want to go down for his screw up along side this meatball. I haven't heard from the CO's yet, and I am dying to find out if meatball did the right thing. This whole event makes me wonder if this joker even had a hunting license, and if he did, how on earth did he pass the CORE? I probably should have followed him to make sure this was handled properly, but I can guarantee he wouldn't have a clue how to butcher it himself, and heaven help him if he tried to take it to a licensed butcher. Anyways, I know sh*t happens, but for God's sake people, READ and UNDERSTAND the regs BEFORE you pull the trigger!!

[GoatGuy]

The CO service will certainly check who the CORE examiner was. Glad it was reported.

[Sofa King]

that's so sad to lose another moose because of dumb hunters.
I wonder sometimes about the co's, you'd think they'd be getting back to you immediately.
hopefully they've talked to the guy.

[BigfishCanada]

Are you joking me, this is beyond stupidity...makes me think maybe he was just a real good bullshitter. I would follow up with that CO, 10 bucks says no way did this guy call in. Ill betcha he could find a butcher pretty easy to cut it up in the garage. This story makes me sick

[Sasquatch]

I put the line of whether he turned himself in, at 3 to 1 against. If you get a follow up from the CO, let us know what happened.

[ruger#1]

I hope you took his lic plate number.

[Farquharson]

If he had done the whole thing knowingly, he would have understood that it was a race to the CO's as soon as the moose was loaded.

After all, if the OP reported him as a poacher before he self-reported, he stood a good chance of losing everything. (Unless it was a stolen truck too.)

If he did not self-report, I would guess that he actually was just a world-class dummy. First he poaches a moose, then he confesses to other hunters, then he disregards their advice and goes home to wait to be arrested. There is a lot of fail there.

A smart poacher would have realized that he was caught, played dumb, and self-reported at lightning speed.

But then again this guy supposedly didn't even know how to use a knife.

Do keep us posted.

[skinarama]

Yeah makes me sick too! I would have loaded the moose in my truck to take to the CO's, but putting a 1000 - 1200 pound whole moose in the back of a Cherokee would be a little tricky! I did get his plate and truck info, and hopefully they can find him, if he doesn't do the right thing. Will let you know if I hear from the CO's.

[Island Idiots]

The CO service will certainly check who the CORE examiner was. Glad it was reported.

Just because someone made a mistake or breaks the law does not mean the CORE examiner / instructor didn't do his job correctly.
You can take a course, pass an exam, but that does not replace common sense. Lots of folks get their drivers license, but they can't or won't follow the rules of the road.
There are lots of hunters out there who can't read or don't understand the regs. It is not necessarily the examiners fault.

[Sofa King]

I really doubt he was intentionally poaching.
sounds like he was just a dumb-dumb hunter.
why's he even going out in the bush, for moose especially, with no knife experience?

[Ferenc]

One of those cases where he should have picked up two copies of the hunting regs and kept one in the sh!tter room!

[Kudu]

If he had done the whole thing knowingly, he would have understood that it was a race to the CO's as soon as the moose was loaded.

After all, if the OP reported him as a poacher before he self-reported, he stood a good chance of losing everything. (Unless it was a stolen truck too.)

If he did not self-report, I would guess that he actually was just a world-class dummy. First he poaches a moose, then he confesses to other hunters, then he disregards their advice and goes home to wait to be arrested. There is a lot of fail there.

A smart poacher would have realized that he was caught, played dumb, and self-reported at lightning speed.

But then again this guy supposedly didn't even know how to use a knife.

Do keep us posted.

How exactly does a dumb - obvious newby - become a "poacher" just because he did not understand the regs and made a mistake?

Who says he he didn't fess up and tell the CO's he f'd up?

Sometimes this place makes me sick!

[Sitkaspruce]

CO's are not responsible for getting back to the original caller, only if they need follow up. They will usually call to say thanks, but rarely do they give you an up-to-date, play-by-play of the case. That becomes a private matter. You did phone the RAPP line and not the local office.

This in not uncommon, lots of guys out there who think they know what they are doing. Thats why I think a mentoring system is a great way to intoduce hunters to what they are doing.

Good on you for helping and calling it in.

Cheers

SS

[Rackem]

Any time I have called a CO, they have given me a nice detailed accounting of what transpired, usually within a few days of the original report.

[BigfishCanada]

How exactly does a dumb - obvious newby - become a "poacher" just because he did not understand the regs and made a mistake?

Who says he he didn't fess up and tell the CO's he f'd up?

Sometimes this place makes me sick!


If someone is stupid enough to get this wrong, shouldnt have a license to hunt, I am the last guy to bash a mistake, but this is plane stupidity and should have a consequence associated to it.

[Rackem]

It may be plain stupidity, in fact it really looks like it so far. If so, his intent was to legally hunt, and he muffed it really badly.

There WILL be consequences.

The difference between a deliberate poaching and a stupid accident is vast. Intent and motive.

It is amazing however, how some people survive into adulthood.

[Cookie1965]

How exactly does a dumb - obvious newby - become a "poacher" just because he did not understand the regs and made a mistake?
Unfortunately he became a poacher as soon as he pulled the trigger on a mature bull in fork season, ignorance of the law is no excuse.


Who says he he didn't fess up and tell the CO's he f'd up?

Maybe, hopefully he did. Then he's a confessed poacher who will probably then be dealt with more leniently


Sometimes this place makes me sick!

Ok, but if it's just over the use of the word poacher that seems a little much. If all it took was an "aw shucks I didn't know" to get away with stuff poaching would be (more) rampant.

[Rackem]

From MOE website:http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cos/rapp/costs.html

What is Poaching?

















Poaching is the illegal collection or killing of fish, wildlife or native plants. Some common examples include:


taking more fish and game than the law allows;
hunting or fishing in a closed area or during a closed season;
using prohibited gear or equipment; or
the unlawful collection of fish and wildlife, or their parts, for the purpose of trafficking.

[Darksith]

those who turn themselves in will be treated differently than someone who is caught...it says that right in the regs. Mistakes happen, but he should still get a fine if he did the right thing. I would imagine that the OP took down his plate, otherwise how could one report it?

[Rackem]

From the Wildlife Act:http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/ID/freeside/00_96488_01Accidental killing of wildlife75 (1) A person who kills or wounds wildlife, other than prescribed wildlife, either by accident or for the protection of life or property, must promptly report to an officer
(a) the killing or wounding, and
(b) the location of the wildlife.
(2) A person who fails to report as required under subsection (1) commits an offence.

[Rackem]

There is a huge difference between this silly guy, and this douche http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/b-c-native-carver-fined-11-000-trafficking-203944186.html

[Ron.C]

regardless of why or where the error was made, I have a huge amount of respect for anyone who self reports after they relaize a mistake has been made.

[Rackem]

This is a poacher too: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/ebay-ad-leads-wildlife-fines-40-000-011313929.html

and this is a poacher: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/behind-killing-beheading-west-coast-sea-lions-195015945.html?.tsrc=att

Accidental stupid killing and self reporting are not poaching under BC law, but it is STILL an offence and there are still consequences.

[Jelvis]

Lot's of liars out there, they plead ignorant, I told two hunters the road they were on was closed to vehicles and they said OH, we dint know dat man, are you sure?
I dint know dat.

[Rackem]

This guy was excited to get the moose, he readily accepted offers of help. If he knew that he had taken an illegal animal, do you think he would have done that?

I have seen animals left to rot because the shooter realized the animal was illegal. This way, self reporting (if it happened). and preserving the meat, at least the meat will go to the needy, and the loss is not as bad as if it were left to rot. The newbie dummy will have learned a horrible hard lesson, and hopefully will never make such an error again.

[Rackem]

From the Regs:

What should you do if you harvest an
animal in error?
Mistakes happen. Either through poor
judgement, inexperience or at times through
a series of unavoidable circumstances, each
year animals are mistakenly killed. Many are
self reported but many more are left in the
bush to rot. The Conservation Officer Service
wants to encourage those who make such a
mistake to come forward. In circumstances
where such animals are recovered by the
COS the meat will be distributed and utilized
by those in need.
Hunters who self report such kills will be
viewed in a different light than those who
intentionally kill an illegal animal or fail to
report the matter. The Conservation Officer
Service believes that the true test of a hunter
is not whether or not a mistake is made, but
how he/she deals with that mistake.
All self reported unlawful kills will be
investigated and the appropriate action will
be assessed by the officer.
What should you do?
Immediately cancel your species licence and
mark in ink on the species licence page that
your intention is to self report.
● If you have telephone service, call the
RAPP number and seek direction from a
Conservation Officer.
● If you are within close proximity of a
phone but it will require some traveling,
field dress that animal to prevent spoilage,
leave the carcass at the scene and go
to a location where a call to the RAPP
number can be made.
● If you are in a remote location and
telephone contact is not possible, field
dress that animal to prevent spoilage,
care for the carcass until
you enter a location where
a phone call to the RAPP
number can be made.
RAPP 1- 877-952-7277

[Jelvis]

People lie all the time, my X lied a lot.

[Rackem]

So Jelly, are you saying this guy is lying? Are you saying everyone is lying? Does no one ever muff something up accidentally? From the way this story is told it sounds like a genuine cluster eff. I think the guy just had reading comprehension difficulties.

It sounds like once he realized his error he followed most of the steps below.

What should you do if you harvest an
animal in error?
Mistakes happen. Either through poor
judgement, inexperience or at times through
a series of unavoidable circumstances, each
year animals are mistakenly killed. Many are
self reported but many more are left in the
bush to rot. The Conservation Officer Service
wants to encourage those who make such a
mistake to come forward. In circumstances
where such animals are recovered by the
COS the meat will be distributed and utilized
by those in need.
Hunters who self report such kills will be
viewed in a different light than those who
intentionally kill an illegal animal or fail to
report the matter. The Conservation Officer
Service believes that the true test of a hunter
is not whether or not a mistake is made, but
how he/she deals with that mistake.
All self reported unlawful kills will be
investigated and the appropriate action will
be assessed by the officer.
What should you do?
Immediately cancel your species licence and
mark in ink on the species licence page that
your intention is to self report.
● If you have telephone service, call the
RAPP number and seek direction from a
Conservation Officer.
● If you are within close proximity of a
phone but it will require some traveling,
field dress that animal to prevent spoilage,
leave the carcass at the scene and go
to a location where a call to the RAPP
number can be made.
● If you are in a remote location and
telephone contact is not possible, field
dress that animal to prevent spoilage,
care for the carcass until
you enter a location where
a phone call to the RAPP
number can be made.
RAPP 1- 877-952-7277

[Kudu]

From MOE website:http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cos/rapp/costs.html

What is Poaching?

















Poaching is the illegal collection or killing of fish, wildlife or native plants. Some common examples include:


taking more fish and game than the law allows;
hunting or fishing in a closed area or during a closed season;
using prohibited gear or equipment; or
the unlawful collection of fish and wildlife, or their parts, for the purpose of trafficking.



Thanks rackem - let's hope people on here can read - then comprehend the letter of the law as it is written and not how they wish to preach it.

That guy was never a poacher - if he was - he would have cut the moose up and sneaked it into his garage - this guy asked for, and received help from a number of hunters - funny actions for a "poacher"

No, he fkd it all up by shooting a mature, big racked moose - and yes his hands should be smacked appropriately for his misdemeanour - but to brand him a poacher is a little sickening to say the least!!!

[Singleshotneeded]

Well I'm curious as hell to find out if Dum Dum Dickie reported his stupid mistake or the COs had to go find him...there's no excuse for not reading the regs and finding out exactly what you can hunt...and making sure of species and sex before you shoot! I'd be inclined to think if he'd poached on purpose he would've lied and said he was just sharpening his new tools, and hadn't shot anything... I'm thinking he was just not very bright!

[Rackem]

He read the regs...interpreted them incorrectly. Reading comprehension. He should have had a mentor. Probably not a bright bulb.

OP

I saw the 6x6 rack of paddles on it, and immediatly said congrats on filling his LEH any bull draw. He says "Whats an LEH draw?" Uh-oh, I told him in this region its 2point or less immature bulls only, and he said "No, the regs say 2 points or more for a spike bull."

[Gun Dog]

I'm a little more forgiving. There are a lot of rules, regulations, and best practices for a rookie hunter to remember. Even after 10+ years we're still going back to the regs for the finer points of legal hunting. If you're hunting with a shotgun when do you have to put a plug in the magazine to limit the rounds to 2? Migratory birds? Upland game birds? Deer? Moose? When do you have to use non-toxic shot and when can you use good old lead?

[Jelvis]

If the hunter who saw him dint see him, then what? He got caught red handed.
Everybody lies.
Everyone lies, when they lay down to sleep their lieing down Haha

[Rackem]

Since he was seen, and we can not read the mans thoughts, we will not know the answer to that question.
Everybody lies, but not everybody lies all the time.
I know of someone who muffed up hunting, shot a buck, and when he got up to it there was both a buck and a doe. He cut two deer tags, gutted the animals, left a note on them with all his info and hunter number stating his intention to call a CO. He then drove to a house, called the CO, who was out in 15 min, they loaded both animals into the COs truck, the CO kept both animals for the needy, congratulated him on his honesty, thanked him for the help. No fine. Just stern talking to regarding being sure of your target.

So in that instance at least, no lies were told.

[Jelvis]

Even some CO's have made mistakes when hunting.

[horshur]

Even some CO's have made mistakes when hunting.

I am laughing.....dim bulb here. Sometimes things just don't seem so clear. What is obvious to some not so much to others.

[tikkavt]

My brother was in the butchers yesterday and the butcher said a guy came in with 6x6 moose and he had turned himself in for shooting it

[RayHill]

I was comming out of the bush (after last light) the other night and came up on a truck parked in the middle of the road. Then I see this guy scrambling out the bush with a very clean and new butcher knife set in his arms. I pulled over to see if he needed help, and he was extatic as he just shot his first moose. He said this was his first kill and that he really needed some help, so I strapped a headlamp on and got ready to give him a hand. I was excited as well, because I had yet to try out my new 10,000 pound winch on my jeep! Before we got going, a few more hunters in trucks showed up, and I knew some of them, so we all went looking for the moose. The guy said he saw 3 cows and then this bull with "spikes" so he dropped him. One in the neck, and then a head shot on the ground to finish the job. Well, we walk 70 yards across the clear cut to the moose, and what a beauty. I saw the 6x6 rack of paddles on it, and immediatly said congrats on filling his LEH any bull draw. He says "Whats an LEH draw?" Uh-oh, I told him in this region its 2point or less immature bulls only, and he said "No, the regs say 2 points or more for a spike bull." What a meatball. After he calmed down from learning he poached this magnificent beast, I had to teach him how to gut the moose. He didn't even know how to use a knife - even though he had a shiny new butchering set! Oh, we would have called the CO's right away, but were 15 kms from cell service. So, once gutted, I got to play with my winch to drag the moose to the road. We were debating on quartering it where it layed, but I thought the CO's would want it whole. My truck and winch worked amazing, and we had the moose in the back of his truck in 10 minutes - whole! I then told the guy to get to cell service and turn himself in for what he did, and so this animal could be butchered and used while the meat was still good. I phoned it in as soon as I hit service, as I know there were a few trucks who saw my truck with his, and I do not want to go down for his screw up along side this meatball. I haven't heard from the CO's yet, and I am dying to find out if meatball did the right thing. This whole event makes me wonder if this joker even had a hunting license, and if he did, how on earth did he pass the CORE? I probably should have followed him to make sure this was handled properly, but I can guarantee he wouldn't have a clue how to butcher it himself, and heaven help him if he tried to take it to a licensed butcher. Anyways, I know sh*t happens, but for God's sake people, READ and UNDERSTAND the regs BEFORE you pull the trigger!!

You should read the regs too. On an accidental kill that is only 15 km from cell service (close proximity of a phone) you are supposed to leave the carcass at the scene and go to a location where a call to the RAPP number can be made. You are only allowed to take the animal out in a remote area a 10 to 20 min drive would not be a remote area. Just saying, the law is the law...

[BearSupreme]

At no time during my CORE coarse did we even open up the hunting regs, not to mention go through and interpret them. We spent the whole 2 days reading about birds ive never seen and watching videos on how to survive in the wild. What a waste. You would think they would spend the whole time going over the regs and teaching people who to deal with a deer/moose once they get it. The regs also shouldnt have 15+ pages of advertising scattered around it because it makes it even harder to find stuff for new hunters.

[hare_assassin]

At no time during my CORE coarse did we even open up the hunting regs, not to mention go through and interpret them. We spent the whole 2 days reading about birds ive never seen and watching videos on how to survive in the wild. What a waste. You would think they would spend the whole time going over the regs and teaching people who to deal with a deer/moose once they get it. The regs also shouldnt have 15+ pages of advertising scattered around it because it makes it even harder to find stuff for new hunters.

I agree about the advertising. I'd rather pay a small fee (5 bucks?) for my copy than have it paid for by advertising.

[Blainer]

mind boggled!

[Darksith]

My brother was in the butchers yesterday and the butcher said a guy came in with 6x6 moose and he had turned himself in for shooting it

interesting...I wouldn't think it would be in his possession still if he had of turned himself in

[Jelvis]

Maybe he's makin the storey up? Haha.
Sometimes people will play games to see how far others will go.
If he wasn't than something is not quite clear here, very strange
Wood you help someone load an animal to get away or wood you leave the guy there with the moose and drive 15 k to cell phone while he's there with the huge moose?
I say something seems a lil made up lol for a response, I say BS.
Jel . imho Skin O Ramma is pullin some legzzzz Haha lol.

[Rackem]

Conspiracy theorists are everywhere. Heard of Chem trails Jelly?

[j270wsm]

It is amazing however, how some people survive into adulthood.

^^^^^people like this shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.^^^^^

Good friend of mine accidentally shot a 5pt elk a few years ago. He field dressed it, called the CO's, loaded it in his truck and waited for the CO's, when they arrived they were extremely grateful my friend had it in the truck. He ended up getting a $125 fine and had to cut his elk tag. CO's said he would have got fined around $400 if he wouldn't have had it field dressed and loaded in his truck.

[Jelvis]

So your saying that you wood have cleaned the moose and drug it out with a winch and load in one piece a huge moose on another persons truck and say bye bye, turn your self in. Rack? Not me. After dark yet.
Sounds kinda goofy to me. Then say, eh man I helped you get away and got a hernia lifting 1200 pounds in one piece and done it all in one hour.
Absoloute made up imho.
Or wood you have left it there and drove 15 k and RAPP ed it up?
And now your defending this Racko dacko what's going on hunter?
Jel -- please explain your non commital to leave and phone the CO's b4 he cood move said half a ton of non gutted moose. Hah?

[Gateholio]

I rather like the advertising in the regs, personally

[frenchbar]

So your saying that you wood have cleaned the moose and drug it out with a winch and load in one piece a huge moose on another persons truck and say bye bye, turn your self in. Rack? Not me. After dark yet.
Sounds kinda goofy to me. Then say, eh man I helped you get away and got a hernia lifting 1200 pounds in one piece and done it all in one hour.
Absoloute made up imho.
Or wood you have left it there and drove 15 k and RAPP ed it up?
And now your defending this Racko dacko what's going on hunter?
Jel -- please explain your non commital to leave and phone the CO's b4 he cood move said half a ton of non gutted moose. Hah?

you might think its goofy,,but the man with the moose is a neufie..............

[Rackem]

So your saying that you wood have cleaned the moose and drug it out with a winch and load in one piece a huge moose on another persons truck and say bye bye, turn your self in. Rack? Not me. After dark yet.
Sounds kinda goofy to me. Then say, eh man I helped you get away and got a hernia lifting 1200 pounds in one piece and done it all in one hour.
Absoloute made up imho.
Or wood you have left it there and drove 15 k and RAPP ed it up?
And now your defending this Racko dacko what's going on hunter?
Jel -- please explain your non commital to leave and phone the CO's b4 he cood move said half a ton of non gutted moose. Hah?

I would have helped the guy out, reading the applicable regs to him regarding the proper procedure, depending on the proximity to the phone...discussed how to read the regs so he won't make such a mistake again, tell him to find a mentor, call it in...

I would then write down his plate and vehicle, his name etc...and report it as soon as I got near a phone.

I would take photos also.

Non commital? I would follow the regs. Just that simple. Observe, record, report.

[hawk-i]

I for one believe there are to many regulations for hunting each area and mistakes can easily happen....not only are there seperate regs for each wmu but there are exclusions, additions, partial wmu closers, LEH, veh. restrictions by the hour, closed areas, no hunting areas, parks, private land issues, Indian reserve issues and advisories, compulsory inspections, etc, etc, etc.....at times you have to view 10 or so of those tiny little maps (f-07 to f-38).....come on now....is it really necessary to Micro-manage to that extent or is it more in the name of job security.
I can see a new hunter making an honest mistake...if it was a mistake and he turned himself in, I'll give him credit and praise not call him a dimwit. After all, to err is human.

[Captainkf]

I agree about the advertising. I'd rather pay a small fee (5 bucks?) for my copy than have it paid for by advertising.

I pay more than enough to hunt and fish with all the licences, permits, courses and such fees associated here in bc. Please don't suggest another way for the government to charge us! If you don't like them, cut out the ads you can, some are double sided.

[RayHill]

I for one believe there are to many regulations for hunting each area and mistakes can easily happen....not only are there seperate regs for each wmu but there are exclusions, additions, partial wmu closers, LEH, veh. restrictions by the hour, closed areas, no hunting areas, parks, private land issues, Indian reserve issues and advisories, compulsory inspections, etc, etc, etc.....at times you have to view 10 or so of those tiny little maps (f-07 to f-38).....come on now....is it really necessary to Micro-manage to that extent or is it more in the name of job security.
I can see a new hunter making an honest mistake...if it was a mistake and he turned himself in, I'll give him credit and praise not call him a dimwit. After all, to err is human.

It can happen and you are right about all the info you have to read just to get out for a weekend hunt..

Guys that can take lots of time to prep for a hunt can read up on all the info for the area they want to hunt and there is sometimes a bunch of rules to know with some areas.

The guys that work all week and on Friday at 6:30 they are racing up the road for the weekend hunt are reading the regs on the road up to the spot they want to hunt. Sometimes things can be missed in a quick read. I have had this happen to me. I was studying the regs on a Friday on lunch break at work for the moose hunt me and my brother were going on that weekend. After driving up to Fraser Lake half the night my brother was reading the regs on the way up while I drove. That morning we saw a calf moose off the forestry road... I remembered that I saw that they were opening that day for calfs, My brother was saying that he didn't see that in the regs the night before and after him saying (I DONT KNOW) a bunch of times I was second guessing myself at that point. Because my brother left my regs book on his bedside table that morning we didn't have it with us to check. So not knowing 100% I just shot it with the camera and watched it and mom wander into the brush.. When we got back to the cabin that night we found out that I was right and we could have had a nice and tender moosey in the box of the truck. The working guys have to keep there regs book with them at all times to read it often.

[Farquharson]

When it comes to a high-risk, high-responsibility activity such as walking around in the forest unsupervised with the goal of harvesting certain very specific creatures with a gun, ignorance is never an excuse.

The laws are summarized, for free, in plain english for your comfort and convenience. Plus you can double-check your assumptions by downloading an app, asking on forums, or (god forbid) asking a CO. There are a lot of resources, and you have to disregard all of them to "not know any better".

The "accidental harvest" paragraph is for people who miscount tines or maybe misidentify deer species at twilight or in the fog. Wrong decisions that are made occasionally due to the imperfect nature of the conditions and timelines in which hunting takes place.

The subject of this thread harvested his moose deliberately, not accidentally. He didn't *think* it was a spike-fork, then walk over and turn white with terror because the light had played tricks on him. His harvest was no accident.

He then further declined to own up to his ignorance and hope for the mercy or leniency of a CO by coming clean about it. Instead tried to get away scott free.

He's exactly what the poaching laws were designed for.

[Brez]

X2!!
Tired of talking to people about hunting or fishing and they don't even know the bag/possesion limits......or much of anything else for that matter. I have to shake my head.
When it comes to a high-risk, high-responsibility activity such as walking around in the forest unsupervised with the goal of harvesting certain very specific creatures with a gun, ignorance is never an excuse.

The laws are summarized, for free, in plain english for your comfort and convenience. Plus you can double-check your assumptions by downloading an app, asking on forums, or (god forbid) asking a CO. There are a lot of resources, and you have to disregard all of them to "not know any better".

The "accidental harvest" paragraph is for people who miscount tines or maybe misidentify deer species at twilight or in the fog. Wrong decisions that are made occasionally due to the imperfect nature of the conditions and timelines in which hunting takes place.

The subject of this thread harvested his moose deliberately, not accidentally. He didn't *think* it was a spike-fork, then walk over and turn white with terror because the light had played tricks on him. His harvest was no accident.

He then further declined to own up to his ignorance and hope for the mercy or leniency of a CO by coming clean about it. Instead tried to get away scott free.

He's exactly what the poaching laws were designed for.

[TheProvider]

I dont agree with those statements. Basically your saying its ok to kill the wrong animal due to poor light or weather. But its wrong to misread information and kill the wrong animal. Either way the shooter intentially kills the animal. I would say those two circumstances should be treated exactly the same if the person turned themselves in.

Your suppose to be aware of your target before shooting just like you should know the regulation for that particular area. If you are uncertain of the animal or the regs let the animal walk.

[finngun]

trivia Q....if i shoot a bear,,,all legal... and i want to sell bear hide...do i have to pay a royalty for goverment.....or not?:mrgreen:

[Farquharson]

I dont agree with those statements. Basically your saying its ok to kill the wrong animal due to poor light or weather. But its wrong to misread information and kill the wrong animal. Either way the shooter intentially kills the animal. I would say those two circumstances should be treated exactly the same if the person turned themselves in.

Your suppose to be aware of your target before shooting just like you should know the regulation for that particular area. If you are uncertain of the animal or the regs let the animal walk.If you know the laws and are confident that you are looking at the required 3-point deer at 75 yards, and you shoot it, and you walk over and find out that one of the points is half an inch too short, or one of the points that was so obvious through your 20x spotting scope was actually a stick right behind his head, you are still in the wrong. But considering that optical illusions can and do happen, it's fair to only pay a hefty fine for your mistake (and have the mistake put on your record) and be on your way.

If you choose to not even know the law, (or your location, or both,) and see a bull moose, and kill it in good conscience even though you do not know whether it is legal, you're a poacher. You lose your vehicle and rifle and license because you went into the field as a hunter while *wilfully* and recklessly unprepared or ignorant.

The difference is that you have the luxury of time and many sources of information while preparing for your hunt, so the law expects your preparedness to be up to a certain standard. (Knowledge of your area, knowledge of the laws.)

Whereas the act of hunting itself involves quick decisions about animals that will never, ever let you walk over and verify your understanding. Hence the moderate penalties, rather than severe ones.

Again, both are definitely wrong. But one's much wronger than the other.

[TheProvider]

Your example I agree with. But its quite different than the other example given.

[Mikey Rafiki]

If you know the laws and are confident that you are looking at the required 3-point deer at 75 yards, and you shoot it, and you walk over and find out that one of the points is half an inch too short, or one of the points that was so obvious through your 20x spotting scope was actually a stick right behind his head, you are still in the wrong. But considering that optical illusions can and do happen, it's fair to only pay a hefty fine for your mistake (and have the mistake put on your record) and be on your way.

If you choose to not even know the law, (or your location, or both,) and see a bull moose, and kill it in good conscience even though you do not know whether it is legal, you're a poacher. You lose your vehicle and rifle and license because you went into the field as a hunter while *wilfully* and recklessly unprepared or ignorant.

The difference is that you have the luxury of time and many sources of information while preparing for your hunt, so the law expects your preparedness to be up to a certain standard. (Knowledge of your area, knowledge of the laws.)

Whereas the act of hunting itself involves quick decisions about animals that will never, ever let you walk over and verify your understanding. Hence the moderate penalties, rather than severe ones.

Again, both are definitely wrong. But one's much wronger than the other.

I understand what you are saying and agree about the difference between intent and ignorance, but if a point is half an inch too short, that means you somehow believed that a point less than half an inch long was legal. Also, if you can't tell a tine from a stick that's pretty bad and you should spend more time looking at the rack from different perspectives rather than a snap shot through a spotting scope. If it runs off too quick that's just the way it goes.

I would suggest there are more illegal kills from shooting before being confident of the count or species compared to not being in the right zone. Optical illusions can also occur when looking at maps and trying to determine your exact location.

To sum it up, be careful, be diligent, take shots based on certainty and don't be afraid to let them walk.

[finngun]

yes but many hunting laws regs should be simplyfy... there are too many 'gray' areas where even law abiding hunter can make mistake..how come most europeans can handle their moose populations just simple---bull or cow-or calf system..no counting points:confused:

[TheProvider]

I got used to studing regs in northern Ontario for fishing. You could be on a lake and the lake directly across the road with the same species would have different size restrictions and limits. Temiskaming lake is half in Ontario and have in Quebec. You'd want to make sure you didn't go onto the Quebec side unless you have a Quebec licence as well. Of course different limits and size restrictions for each side of the lake. Regs book at home, in the truck and in the tackle pack

[Gateholio]

trivia Q....if i shoot a bear,,,all legal... and i want to sell bear hide...do i have to pay a royalty for goverment.....or not?:mrgreen:

There is a list of royalties to be paid in the regs. Look there first.

[Phreddy]

I pound the regs into the heads of my CORE students. That's a priority. Too many folks seem to do a CORE Lite, and are not doing the class any favor in the long run.

At no time during my CORE coarse did we even open up the hunting regs, not to mention go through and interpret them. We spent the whole 2 days reading about birds ive never seen and watching videos on how to survive in the wild. What a waste. You would think they would spend the whole time going over the regs and teaching people who to deal with a deer/moose once they get it. The regs also shouldnt have 15+ pages of advertising scattered around it because it makes it even harder to find stuff for new hunters.

[pmj]

There is a definite need for mentoring in our sport. The Hunting Synopsis is an abbreviated version of the Hunting Regulations. I read government documents for a living and I find it a challenge to keep on top of all the rules and regulations. It helps to have lots of them memorized after many years of hunting. Even with all the experts here there has been many debates on the Regs such as....Is it legal to harvest a Sasquatch? Can you use your tail gate for a rifle rest while target shooting? Can you target shoot at night? Oh yeah and how old is this sheep?

[HarryToolips]

Hope your on top of it and I hope the CO's have been informed and hope this guy gets nailed...

[351BII]

it happens out there. one of the guys I work with was hunting and he came across a guy who claimed he shot a nice bull elk. Lone behold when he found the animal it was a caribou. Gotta wonder with people like this out there.