Another year of feeding wolves.

[gcreek]

I also posted this on wolftracker.ca



Getting cattle gathered in again this fall. Still out about 75 cows. Went through the cattle that are in and we are short 17 calves that went out with their mothers. At $8-900 each I guess we won’t be paying taxes again this year.
The wife brought in a pair last evening, The calf had been attacked and bitten severely by wolves sometime in the previous 24 hours. She said another cow was bawling steady farther down in the timber. Will go check this morning. This will be the fourth to escape death that we have found. It will be put on antibiotics for the long, expensive road to recovery this morning.
Wonder when the govt. will quit funding studies and actually act on reducing the wolf population to an acceptable level. Moose are almost non-existent in the immediate area around the ranch.

[Rackem]

Wow gcreek that sucks. My cousin's neighbor lost a 4H steer to wolves last year, and it was a very large animal...where abouts are you located? Do you want hunters to come and snipe some? Or do you know any trappers?

[BiG Boar]

Yes, where are you located and would you mind hunters coming to help take care of the wolves/predators?

[caddisguy]

I was over in the South Cariboo this weekend. Saw wolf tracks along most of the deer tracks and the buggers were howling from dusk till down. Similar observation in Merritt last week. Not sure if hunting them would help much. I suspect this would just help them sustain their levels. I'll bet a box of ammo these things will starve off in massive numbers within the next 2-3 seasons. Maybe letting them die off from competition and lack of food is the way to go, then after that, we would be able to manage them hunting to delay the next predator uprise. Wish we could do more.

[hawk-i]

gcreek, send a bill to Pacific Wild, P.O Box 26, Denny Island, VOT1BO for the amount of loss from wolf kills .... they advocate protecting wolves so they should be obligated to pay for their damages!

[hawk-i]

I was over in the South Cariboo this weekend. Saw wolf tracks along most of the deer tracks and the buggers were howling from dusk till down. Similar observation in Merritt last week. Not sure if hunting them would help much. I suspect this would just help them sustain their levels. I'll bet a box of ammo these things will starve off in massive numbers within the next 2-3 seasons. Maybe letting them die off from competition and lack of food is the way to go, then after that, we would be able to manage them hunting to delay the next predator uprise. Wish we could do more.

A person should get bumper stickers made up that say " Save a deer, harvest a wolf" and have a picture of cute little bambi on it being killed by a wolf.

[Kudu]

A person should get bumper stickers made up that say " Save a deer, harvest a wolf" and have a picture of cute little bambi on it being killed by a wolf.

That sounds like a brilliant Idea - how do we get this off the board and into reality?

[panhead]

Wish I could get my sights on one ... or two ... or three ... or four ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The oxygen must be thinner where you’re standing

[Rob Chipman]

I really wonder about this. Wolves and ungulates/prey should live in balance, right? A big moose decline, if created by, say, lots of beetle kill leading to lots of logging leading to less cover for cows and calves (moose, that is) makes it easy for wolves to eat and reproduce, but...when the moose are gone that should lead to a drop in wolf pops, right?

However, we're getting reports of wolves all over the place. In fact, hunting around Clinton last week we had the experience of hearing lots of wolves howling during the day all over the valley we were in, and seeing lots of wolf tracks. At the end of the hunt we dropped down a few thousand feet elevation to a ranch that's 20 minutes off the highway. Guess what pops up on a morning walk, sitting in the meadow just across a fence from three steers? Big wolf.

So...everybody is reporting more wolves. Moose pops are way down in Chilcotin and elsewhere, and have been for a while. If Caddisguy is right (and the idea makes sense to me) shouldn't we be seeing fewer reports of wolves where there are big drops in moose? It's been a few seasons already. Are the wolves moving from prey depleted areas to new areas? I saw lots of wolf sign three years ago around Chilcotin Lake/Chezacut, and despite very moosy looking country, very little moose sign. Found a 3 pt muley wolf kill.

So, what's causing this wolf population increase, and will it die a natural death? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

[caddisguy]

I really wonder about this. Wolves and ungulates/prey should live in balance, right? A big moose decline, if created by, say, lots of beetle kill leading to lots of logging leading to less cover for cows and calves (moose, that is) makes it easy for wolves to eat and reproduce, but...when the moose are gone that should lead to a drop in wolf pops, right?

However, we're getting reports of wolves all over the place. In fact, hunting around Clinton last week we had the experience of hearing lots of wolves howling during the day all over the valley we were in, and seeing lots of wolf tracks. At the end of the hunt we dropped down a few thousand feet elevation to a ranch that's 20 minutes off the highway. Guess what pops up on a morning walk, sitting in the meadow just across a fence from three steers? Big wolf.

So...everybody is reporting more wolves. Moose pops are way down in Chilcotin and elsewhere, and have been for a while. If Caddisguy is right (and the idea makes sense to me) shouldn't we be seeing fewer reports of wolves where there are big drops in moose? It's been a few seasons already. Are the wolves moving from prey depleted areas to new areas? I saw lots of wolf sign three years ago around Chilcotin Lake/Chezacut, and despite very moosy looking country, very little moose sign. Found a 3 pt muley wolf kill.

So, what's causing this wolf population increase, and will it die a natural death? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Worth noting that caddis is making guesses about general predator/prey cycle theories and could be totally wrong. If the moose are not able to keep their calves and the wolves are resorting to cattle and are heavily pursuing deer as the tracks seem to show, I imagine we're getting close to the end of the cycle. I am just throwing out guesses and am interested in what others think as well.

[hawk-i]

Also worth noting that when wolves reduce the prey populations in one area they simply move on to another, then to another and then to another and so forth. One hundred miles is nothing to a wolf.

[rides bike to work]

There are a lot of cattle roaming around this province easy pickings for a pack of wolves don't think they are going to go hungry any time soon

[Rob Chipman]

"One hundred miles is nothing to a wolf."

They were in our hunting area Wednesday, and howling like crazy.

After that? Nary a peep. I suspect they had moved on to another part of their range. One 10 mile valley here, another over there, rinse and repeat. They're probably where we were one day out of 7 (8,9,10?) as they cycle through territory.

[250 sav]

That's a bad situation, my Brother in law is on year #4 of losing cattle on his range in the louis creek/ Adams lake country.

[hawk-i]

Just a question here.... Do BC cattle ranchers get compensated for cattle loss due to preditation? I use to grain farm in Alberta and we were able to claim grain loss due to migratory bird damage not sure if it is still the same... the compensation wasn't a lot but at least it roughly covered your input costs for the damaged field.

[aggiehunter]

maybe it's the same wolves we saw up Babine....driving new ford trucks.....

[Bear Chaser]

So, what's causing this wolf population increase, and will it die a natural death? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Go back and read the first post on this thread.

Wolf predation on livestock didn't cause the current high wolf numbers but it will sustain them at least until the ranchers all quit or the government grows a set and does something effective about the problem.

[gcreek]

preditation? I use to grain farm in Alberta and we were able to claim grain loss due to migratory bird damage not sure if i
Just a question here.... Do BC cattle ranchers get compensated for cattle loss due to t is still the same... the compensation wasn't a lot but at least it roughly covered your input costs for the damaged field.

If we find a kill and can 100% prove that it was killed by predators and not just fed on after death of natural cause we can claim compensation. Compensation for a $900 calf is $300 up to 6 months of age.
I would rather the money be spent on full time, competent predator mitigators to remove the problem.

Sine the pilot project for predator control was discontinued by BC Cattlemen's Asso. there has been a lot of dollars spent training ranchers, natives and trappers to trap. The extended, no limit seasons were added. There has been little impact on livestock killing preds. since 2009.

The contractor that worked for BCCA killed 500 wolves, and several problem grizzlies and cougars over a 5 year period is now sitting in a rock truck in a mine. Kind of a waste of talent if I may say so.

The COS that so wanted predator control as they thought it would lead to more funding is sadly lacking in talent to be of much use. I do realize that a few CO's try and fewer yet are somewhat successful but their job description doesn't allow for full time focus in this direction.

I live in the Anahim Lake area. A lot of country with few roads. Those of you who are willing to try are welcome to PM me but hunting doesn't really address the fact that whole packs need to be removed.

[Fella]

Is it legal for Proguide to set up a trapline on someone elses property? He does a great job trapping wolves, maybe he'd set up a line on your range?

[REMINGTON JIM]

Is it legal for Proguide to set up a trapline on someone elses property? He does a great job trapping wolves, maybe he'd set up a line on your range?

YUP its legal for any LICENCED trapper to trap private PROPERTY with written PERMISSION . :-D RJ

[Rackem]

You can make up bumper stickers online....

If you can find a royalty free picture or have one donated...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/537288_10151662987515754_558945803_n.jpg

[gcreek]

Is it legal for Proguide to set up a trapline on someone elses property? He does a great job trapping wolves, maybe he'd set up a line on your range?

The guy that sits in the mine truck will come out once we establish a pattern. I KNOW he can catch them.

[gcreek]

Two wolves left here in the back of Lay's truck today. The calf they chewed up died two days later and an old cow got on her back and died. The wolves cleaned a 1200 lb cow up in less than 36 hours from when I saw her alive. lay couldn't make it here immediately so I put the dead 550 lb calf out that evening. 2/3 was gone in 24 hrs. Neighbor gave me an old horse for bait the day before Lay showed up to set traps.

One wolf was a 55 lb. female from this year's hatch. The other was an old boss male with really worn down teeth. The male was wearing a collar! Wonder how long the bios were watching this pack snacking on the neighborhood cattle herds?
The traps await. Check again Thursday morning.

BTW, this is all on private land.

[Rattler]

Good luck, hope you nail a bunch...

[ianwuzhere]

On a good note u have a lot of bait now :)

[bridger]

It is time for cattleman, hunters, guide outfitters, and first nations reps to form a coalition and push the government into a province wide predator management program. The economic loss to the province is staggering. A compensation program paying $300 for $900 calf doesn't cut it nor does allowing wolves to make serious inroads in moose populations that result in lower harvest levels causing tension among user groups. Not to mention $40,000 stone rams.

[c.r.hunter]

I talked to some Ranchers I know in the Big Bar area last week and they figured this years loss (assumed mostly to wolves) is around $30,000 and counting.....An increase from last year. Small Mom and Pop ranchers have a hard enough time making a living these days, without wolves chewing up their herd.

[gcreek]

It is time for cattleman, hunters, guide outfitters, and first nations reps to form a coalition and push the government into a province wide predator management program. The economic loss to the province is staggering. A compensation program paying $300 for $900 calf doesn't cut it nor does allowing wolves to make serious inroads in moose populations that result in lower harvest levels causing tension among user groups. Not to mention $40,000 stone rams.

The local band has a biologist on retainer to deal mostly with the mine going in north of the Ulgatcho Mountans. He has in writing the recommendation that wolves need to die in order to help the moose and cariboo.

Now enter the bios from Williams Lake who are waving a few trinkets and have the band convinced they need to collar a few more wolves just to make sure they are actually eating meat. Stewart and Ramsey need to go now. 30 years of continued studies, no decisions, no resolutions, and no action.

[bridger]

The local band has a biologist on retainer to deal mostly with the mine going in north of the Ulgatcho Mountans. He has in writing the recommendation that wolves need to die in order to help the moose and cariboo.

Now enter the bios from Williams Lake who are waving a few trinkets and have the band convinced they need to collar a few more wolves just to make sure they are actually eating meat. Stewart and Ramsey need to go now. 30 years of continued studies, no decisions, no resolutions, and no action.

I hear ya! The push needs to go directly to government and by pass local managers. An economic based position directly to government caucus would be effective in my view. The eonomics of hunting, ranching, outfitting, and first nations sustanence hunting would make a powerful platform.

[GoatGuy]

Two wolves left here in the back of Lay's truck today. The calf they chewed up died two days later and an old cow got on her back and died. The wolves cleaned a 1200 lb cow up in less than 36 hours from when I saw her alive. lay couldn't make it here immediately so I put the dead 550 lb calf out that evening. 2/3 was gone in 24 hrs. Neighbor gave me an old horse for bait the day before Lay showed up to set traps.

One wolf was a 55 lb. female from this year's hatch. The other was an old boss male with really worn down teeth. The male was wearing a collar! Wonder how long the bios were watching this pack snacking on the neighborhood cattle herds?
The traps await. Check again Thursday morning.

BTW, this is all on private land.

Was it one of the neutered males?

[gcreek]

Was it one of the neutered males?

Apparently not, the other was one of this year's pups. We'll see what the rest of the pack looks like eventually. If he was collared in this area, (which they have done several different times) I don't believe any made a trip to the WL Vet Hospital.

Although badly worn, he still had his teeth too!

If he was neutered, I guess we killed $30,000.00 of taxpayers money today.

[masoncade1992]

How can you tell a good wolf from bad wolf???? kill em all and let god sort em out!!!!:-D

[chilcotin hillbilly]

That bad knews, Dave. The rancher with range north and east of Tatla Lake is missing a pile of cows so far. I believe around 90 or so head, so many it would seem they may have been stolen. Kyle needs back on the job full time. Know one does it better!!!!
Ramsey is a real believer in wolf control, "the old school way" but is scared to loose his job by suggesting the cure to our wolf problem. True fact!!!

[Stone Sheep Steve]

That bad knews, Dave. The rancher with range north and east of Tatla Lake is missing a pile of cows so far. I believe around 90 or so head, so many it would seem they may have been stolen. Kyle needs back on the job full time. Know one does it better!!!!
Ramsey is a real believer in wolf control, "the old school way" but is scared to loose his job by suggesting the cure to our wolf problem. True fact!!!

Sounds like not only he needs his full time job back, he needs to be paid very well to train others. His knowledge must be shared as the problem has become too widespread for one man to handle.

There was a lady from one of the Chilcotin Bands at the BCWF convention and she mentioned that they have brought in a knowledgable trapper to train some band members to trap wolves. Maybe the trainer was this fella???

SSS

[panhead]

Was it one of the neutered males?

He's neutered now ...

[bridger]

He's neutered now ...

a perfect end to that story

[psyclops]

That sounds like a brilliant Idea - how do we get this off the board and into reality?


im a graphic designer and work at a sign shop, I could make these if people wanted them (and pay to make it happen).

[roping_tom]

This yr mid summer day out swathing had one run down grab a fawn out of the field carry it back out just passed the fence and started eating it right away could not of cared less of me in the tractor. We had a trapper out one winter 2 yrs ago he got 3 wolves the largest being right around the 200lb mark. Are starting to make there presence known very few coyotes around the farm. After seeing that articale in the kmaloops paper is the bounty on or off? What proof does a hunter need to collect?

[chilcotin hillbilly]

This yr mid summer day out swathing had one run down grab a fawn out of the field carry it back out just passed the fence and started eating it right away could not of cared less of me in the tractor. We had a trapper out one winter 2 yrs ago he got 3 wolves the largest being right around the 200lb mark. Are starting to make there presence known very few coyotes around the farm. After seeing that articale in the kmaloops paper is the bounty on or off? What proof does a hunter need to collect?

You need to carry a rifle on your equipment. Don't believe everything you hear 200LBs is BS.

[1899]

You need to carry a rifle on your equipment. Don't believe everything you hear 200LBs is BS.

Yeah, I am constantly hearing talk 200lb wolves. I shot a brute of a male wolf years ago - I took it into Gander Taxidermy and they immediately said it was a monster and wanted to score it. At the time it was the 12th largest in the record book (skull). Although it never went on the scale, that wolf was certainly under 150 lbs.

[gcreek]

Sounds like not only he needs his full time job back, he needs to be paid very well to train others. His knowledge must be shared as the problem has become too widespread for one man to handle.

There was a lady from one of the Chilcotin Bands at the BCWF convention and she mentioned that they have brought in a knowledgable trapper to train some band members to trap wolves. Maybe the trainer was this fella???

SSS

Ramsey is Regional Manager MOE Williams Lake. After the games he played last fall attempting to relocate a herd of elk in Quesnel without consulting stakeholders he has lost all trust or respect from many.

I know of one band member at Anaham (Alexis Creek) who is catching a few wolves. Next time I see Cheif Joe I'll ask him how the results of training turned out.

I know over 200 people who took the wolf trapping course offered by MOE. I know a few that have caught under 10 wolves and one guy that Lays actually trained who is pretty effective. All in all, the trapping courses, compensations, open seasons and no bag limits are just trinkets and beads that keep folks feeling the powers that be are doing something wonderful when in fact they are basically inconsequential and misleading to their effectiveness.

Taking one or two high ranking wolves out of a pack generally results in the remainder scattering to start their own families. Where there may have only been one or two litters of pups there is the chance that every female connected will have pups the next year. They are still increasing.........at a rate of 100% + per year.

Having said this, every dead one is not eating meat anymore!

[LBM]

gcreek if all the time you spend on her whining, crying and bitching about others was actually spent out looking after your cattle maybe you wouldn't have such a problem.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

LBM when was the last time you killed a wolf???? and how many??? Gcreek is trying to make hunters on here aware of what is happening in the west Chilcotin. Gcreek does his share of culling wolves that is more then 99% of people on here.

[Rackem]

How can you tell a good wolf from bad wolf???? kill em all and let god sort em out!!!!:-D

The only good wolf is a dead wolf LOL!

The biggest wolf on record in Alaska was 175lbs http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=503

Which means some domestic dogs such as English Mastiffs and giant Malamutes are larger than wolves.

[Rackem]

gcreek if all the time you spend on her whining, crying and bitching about others was actually spent out looking after your cattle maybe you wouldn't have such a problem.

Been here since 2009, has only posted 78 times--nuff said.

Gcreek is not a whiner or a bitcher. He does look after his cattle, that is why he is raising awareness of a serious problem. Go back to lurking.

[bridger]

gcreek if all the time you spend on her whining, crying and bitching about others was actually spent out looking after your cattle maybe you wouldn't have such a problem.

What gcreek says makes sense. Trapping and hunting efforts to reduce wolf numbers are commendable, but not really effective in the big picture. In the 80's the moe used aerial hunting methods with great results in 7b. Alaska and the yukon have as well

[boxhitch]

Go back to lurkingOUch !
thought you enjoyed some controversy ?

[boxhitch]

In the 80's the moe used aerial hunting methods with great results in 7b. Alaska and the yukon have as well very common in other parts of the world also , for other species , some of those countrys are British colonies as well

[Rackem]

LOL I do, but that was not controversy, it was just mean.

Here is the largest recorded wolf in Canada shot in Drayton Valley Alberta at 230lbs.

http://huntdrop.com/uploads/hunts/world-record-wolf.jpeg

[gcreek]

gcreek if all the time you spend on her whining, crying and bitching about others was actually spent out looking after your cattle maybe you wouldn't have such a problem.

So, must have hit a nerve? Come clean, are you a CO or a biologist?

I bet your parents weren't married were they?

[GoatGuy]

So, must have hit a nerve? Come clean, are you a CO or a biologist?

I bet your parents weren't married were they?

He's a houndsman.

[GoatGuy]

There are two ways to manage wolf populations. Those are:

1) Aeriel shooting
2) Poison through the use of 1080
3) Both of the above

Hunting and trapping will not induce a population reduction in wolves or wolf predation.

[gcreek]

Another pup went out today. Apparently they have a collared the bitch and made her trap shy too. She dug up two traps.

[gcreek]

Another pup went out today. Apparently they have collared the bitch and made her trap shy too. She dug up two traps.

[1899]

Rackem - I don't really believe that 230lb wolf stuff. The actual confirmed - as in weighed - record is 175lbs. I think it is one of those internet hoaxes going around.

[1899]

There are two ways to manage wolf populations. Those are:

1) Aeriel shooting
2) Poison through the use of 1080
3) Both of the above

Hunting and trapping will not induce a population reduction in wolves or wolf predation.

I was reading on an Alaskan government site that wolves can sustain a 30-40% harvest without a reduction in population. Kind of like rats or something.

[GoatGuy]

Generally speaking you need to remove 70+% annually to make a dent.

[pronghorn]

the guy sitting on a rock truck waiting his talent in your opinion has to eat also and for the best he had to go through to renew his license is even more reason to sit in the rock truck IMO. I feel for you on your loss and I would try the trappers association to see if there's any trappers in your area to help out.

[Rackem]

Rackem - I don't really believe that 230lb wolf stuff. The actual confirmed - as in weighed - record is 175lbs. I think it is one of those internet hoaxes going around.

Ah there you go then, biggest was 175, with a belly full of meat.

[gcreek]

the guy sitting on a rock truck waiting his talent in your opinion has to eat also and for the best he had to go through to renew his license is even more reason to sit in the rock truck IMO. I feel for you on your loss and I would try the trappers association to see if there's any trappers in your area to help out.

You might have missed the fact that he is a good friend of mine. I am well aware of why he is doing what he has too. I was also part and parcel to him getting his permit reissued and sat in on the complete hearing. In knowing the history, it was the best spanking of a biologist and the head of the COS that I could ever hope to witness.

You might also have missed the fact that we are paying his company to remove these wolves with his father providing the expertise. I am much more satisfied in paying for a service well done than begging the CO's or an inexperienced trapline owner to not produce results.

The trapline owner in this case is a native GO that is more than willing to giving unlimited permission to trap wolves anywhere, anytime on his line.

[~T-BONE~]

Xylitol.... Diabetic sugar that's toxic to all canines.

[LBM]

What does when and how many wolves I have shot have have any thing to do with it, sorry if number of kills is how you rate someone Im not part of that belief.
That is one of the problems with hunting now days its all about the kill and chest pumping.

[LBM]

Been here since 2009, has only posted 78 times--nuff said.

Gcreek is not a whiner or a bitcher. He does look after his cattle, that is why he is raising awareness of a serious problem. Go back to lurking.

If post count is important to you that's fine, but as mentioned to Gcreek its better to be out side doing something then on the computer.

[LBM]

So, must have hit a nerve? Come clean, are you a CO or a biologist?

I bet your parents weren't married were they?
Not a CO or a biologist and not sure why it matters but yes my parents were married.

[LBM]

He's a houndsman.

Nope not a houndsman either.

[LBM]

There are two ways to manage wolf populations. Those are:

1) Aeriel shooting
2) Poison through the use of 1080
3) Both of the above

Hunting and trapping will not induce a population reduction in wolves or wolf predation.
But it may increase it, have seen happen.

[gcreek]

LBM, I have likely killed more wolves than most on this site will see in their entire lifetimes. I have also lost more dollars to them than than you likely earn in 3 years, maybe 4.

As you know I am a rancher, why is it a problem for you and many others to share what they do for a living? It would definately give more credibility to your statements. Until you can do this your posts are meaningless.

[brutus]

gcreek if all the time you spend on her whining, crying and bitching about others was actually spent out looking after your cattle maybe you wouldn't have such a problem.Gcreek dont worry about what this guy has to say,he doesnt have a clue.I would use other words but i dont want to get kick off the site.

[gcreek]

Gcreek dont worry about what this guy has to say,he doesnt have a clue.I would use other words but i dont want to get kick off the site.

Pretty apparent, maybe my sig. line will make sense to him someday.

[stinkyduck]

some people just cant put 2 and 2 together when they go to the grocery store to get a steak!!!!! it was raised at costco! right!!!! keep on losing cows and we wont be able to afford to buy a steak, you will be eating bugs like other countries!!

[LBM]

LBM, I have likely killed more wolves than most on this site will see in their entire lifetimes. I have also lost more dollars to them than than you likely earn in 3 years, maybe 4.

As you know I am a rancher, why is it a problem for you and many others to share what they do for a living? It would definately give more credibility to your statements. Until you can do this your posts are meaningless.
What difference does it make what I do for a living. Like I said before I find it funny how so many of you are concerned about number of kills, number of posts etc now credibility is also based on what one does and how much he makes. Wow. So sounds like your a rich farmer then if you can loose that much I would suggest maybe hiring someone to spend the summer and falls out there looking after your cattle if there saving a calf or 2 a month you are way ahead.
Not that it matters but since you want a little info I have helped brand calfs for about 25 years, have done repairs on farmers homes, have fixed fences, found numerous lost cattle( some that were suspossed to be dead from wolfs but were still alive) cleaned up miles of barbed wire not cleaned up by the farmers, found cows falling through the ice found cows and bulls injured with barbed wire wrapped around there legs, found cattle and bulls still on the range after they were suspossed to be brought in, some when told to farmer were still left for they said they were to hard to catch.
Spent 100s of days watching for trespassers, poachers and looking for so called predators. All of this is on my on time and bill no compensation. In saying all that many of the said farmers have emited to shooting into elk heards at there hay stacks, said they will shoot deer out of season to provide predator bait, allowed trespassing on others land, poach predators out of season, hunt on others posted land, asked me to poach, lied to officials I could go on and on but its not really worth it, after reading your other thread you sound similar to these farmers, think you can do what ever you want to save the sacred cow.

[brutus]

What difference does it make what I do for a living. Like I said before I find it funny how so many of you are concerned about number of kills, number of posts etc now credibility is also based on what one does and how much he makes. Wow. So sounds like your a rich farmer then if you can loose that much I would suggest maybe hiring someone to spend the summer and falls out there looking after your cattle if there saving a calf or 2 a month you are way ahead.
Not that it matters but since you want a little info I have helped brand calfs for about 25 years, have done repairs on farmers homes, have fixed fences, found numerous lost cattle( some that were suspossed to be dead from wolfs but were still alive) cleaned up miles of barbed wire not cleaned up by the farmers, found cows falling through the ice found cows and bulls injured with barbed wire wrapped around there legs, found cattle and bulls still on the range after they were suspossed to be brought in, some when told to farmer were still left for they said they were to hard to catch.
Spent 100s of days watching for trespassers, poachers and looking for so called predators. All of this is on my on time and bill no compensation. In saying all that many of the said farmers have emited to shooting into elk heards at there hay stacks, said they will shoot deer out of season to provide predator bait, allowed trespassing on others land, poach predators out of season, hunt on others posted land, asked me to poach, lied to officials I could go on and on but its not really worth it, after reading your other thread you sound similar to these farmers, think you can do what ever you want to save the sacred cow.you still dont get it dude its not about the cows read the tread again from begining to end and slow down maibe your brain take more time to register then others but i will give you a hint WOLFS

[gcreek]

That's right. This thread was meant to bring attention to MOE's ability to spend tax dollars like drunken sailors in order to study.
Nothing is ever determined so the study money keeps rolling in. Carrots such as trapper training, pissant amounts of compensation, and extended seasons that don't mean any more predators being eliminated keep the masses thinking the govt. is doing something to help.

Being complacent about the predator issue is going to net hunters the chance to go camping and that's it. Ranchers as a whole are just as complacent.

Sad.

[LBM]

That's right. This thread was meant to bring attention to MOE's ability to spend tax dollars like drunken sailors in order to study.
Nothing is ever determined so the study money keeps rolling in. Carrots such as trapper training, pissant amounts of compensation, and extended seasons that don't mean any more predators being eliminated keep the masses thinking the govt. is doing something to help.

Being complacent about the predator issue is going to net hunters the chance to go camping and that's it. Ranchers as a whole are just as complacent.

Sad.
Funny in your first post you mention the moose being almost non-existent as well but you have your friends come up there to shoot them, not being much of a conservationist.
Humans will kill the last animal not the wolves. And for you and brutus I know that there is some wolf issues in some areas but you guys can keep up with the insults I have thick skin.
Shouldn't you be out looking for cows.

[gcreek]

Funny in your first post you mention the moose being almost non-existent as well but you have your friends come up there to shoot them, not being much of a conservationist.
Humans will kill the last animal not the wolves. And for you and brutus I know that there is some wolf issues in some areas but you guys can keep up with the insults I have thick skin.
Shouldn't you be out looking for cows.

Been out and back. In a half hour I'm going to go for a fly and see if we can't find a few more if you really need to know what I'm doing. What are your plans today?

What my friends do is their choice, if they want to stay with us while hunting we enjoy their company. I haven't shot a moose in over 20 years.

Truly, I don't feel you are aware of anything but your own ego.

[Charts]

Jerry Jerry Jerry.. I think we all just need to agree its about predator control. Control it enough to have a healthy population of game and a rancher has more enough right to rid the area of predators who are killing his live stock. If someone came to your house and ripped out your means of income and the ability to put food in your childrens mouth the first thing you'd say is that it must be stopped. Thats all gcreek is trying to say I think. I dont think it should mean nuke the wolves till they glow and shoot them in the dark just means control. Entertaining thread to say the least! Gcreek if you need someone to work your cows let me know me and my horse love the work

[brutus]

No insult were stated just plain facts,glad to see you're finally starting to get it

[LBM]

Been out and back. In a half hour I'm going to go for a fly and see if we can't find a few more if you really need to know what I'm doing. What are your plans today?

What my friends do is their choice, if they want to stay with us while hunting we enjoy their company. I haven't shot a moose in over 20 years.

Truly, I don't feel you are aware of anything but your own ego.
Wow you say a guy must post info for credibility then you say he has an ego. No way to make you happy.
My plans, today its a family day, tomorrow hopefully an outdoor day.
With moose non-existent in your area and in the death of a valley thread the elk have been annihilated we as outdoors people, conservationist should be writing our MLAs etc to get these areas shut down to hunting until the heards can bounce back. What region and MUs is this in.
Have a safe flight.

[gcreek]

Wow you say a guy must post info for credibility then you say he has an ego. No way to make you happy.
My plans, today its a family day, tomorrow hopefully an outdoor day.
With moose non-existent in your area and in the death of a valley thread the elk have been annihilated we as outdoors people, conservationist should be writing our MLAs etc to get these areas shut down to hunting until the heards can bounce back. What region and MUs is this in.
Have a safe flight.

I have posted where I live many times. I will repeat it for you again. Anahim Lake, Region 5-12 B. It was a good but unproductive flight. Hour and a half in the air. We looked for the 7 pairs and 3 bulls we are missing but weren't looking where they were apparently.Going up again tomorrow.

Didn't see any moose. Very few beds in the meadows either.

As far as writing, I should have an article to print in a few publications sometime this winter. I prefer to talk to ministers in person. I feel many letters are read by staff and discarded as unimportant before they reach the person intended.

[brutus]

Wow you say a guy must post info for credibility then you say he has an ego. No way to make you happy.
My plans, today its a family day, tomorrow hopefully an outdoor day.
With moose non-existent in your area and in the death of a valley thread the elk have been annihilated we as outdoors people, conservationist should be writing our MLAs etc to get these areas shut down to hunting until the heards can bounce back. What region and MUs is this in.
Have a safe flight.shuting it down to hunting would help a little,but wolfs dont read the hunting regs they hunt 24/7 365 days a year and thats what need to be adress reduce and control the population of wolfs and ungulate will bounce back

[ruger#1]

They are still trying to get the cattle in from the Okanagan region. If they get a hard snow. Then the wolves will have a good feed.

[steel_ram]

Sounds like the ranchers are feeding the wolves and contributing to a wolf overpopulation. It would seem if the can't get them in before weather prohibits it, they are putting out too much food . . . I mean cattle.

[ruger#1]

Sounds like the ranchers are feeding the wolves and contributing to a wolf overpopulation. It would seem if the can't get them in before weather prohibits it, they are putting out too much food . . . I mean cattle.
It is still 18c in the daytime. Cows will not come in. Last year there was over a foot of snow and the cattle were all in.

[brutus]

hard to see tracks sitting in your pick up lol

[gcreek]

Our cattle are nearly all in now. We are short 6 pairs and 3 bulls.

Potzy, I have over 100 photos of killed or maimed cattle and sheep due to wolves AND both kinds of bears. How many would you like me to post?

If predators are not eating our cattle, our summer losses are less than 1/2%.

[GoatGuy]

The Vancouver sun is anti-hunting, anti-ranching, anti-consumptive use, and is very much pro anything as long as it includes wolves, grizzly bears or black bears. There are some serious internal politics that occur at that publication when it comes to hunting related issues.

I wouldn't use it as a valid source for much, except fire starter.

[brutus]

The Vancouver sun is anti-hunting, anti-ranching, anti-consumptive use, and is very much pro anything as long as it includes wolves, grizzly bears or black bears. There are some serious internal politics that occur at that publication when it comes to hunting related issues.

I wouldn't use it as a valid source for much, except fire starter. lmao was thinking the same thing(PETA}.

[ruger#1]

hard to see tracks sitting in your pick up lol
A lot of ranchers use these including me when I am up there.
http://oliverdailynews.com/wp-content/uploads//2013/10/roger-horses22.jpg

[LBM]

Your cattle on your property or range? If on range is there a set date they must be off? If so and they are not by such a date is there a penalty or fine?

[chilcotin hillbilly]

You make it sound like gcreek doesn't have a clue what he is looking at when it come to predation on his stock. I will guarentee he has delt with every preditor in the Chilcoitn including eagles.

[Ronforca]

Had a wolf follow me in the Rock Creek area last week,I was on the Quad so did not have time to get a shot.Saw the Wolf disappear into the bush,drove up the trail about half mile,when I turned around to go back there was the same Wolf standing there looking at me.Again it disappeared into the bush and I never saw it again.Not worried about it attacking me but it is still creepy.Have had Cougar do the same thing.
The main reason that the Wolf population is booming even with the Moose population is down is that the Wolves are eating beef now instead of Moose.

[gcreek]

Your cattle on your property or range? If on range is there a set date they must be off? If so and they are not by such a date is there a penalty or fine?

We have range for 400 of our cows. The rest are summered on our grazing leases. The range cattle should be 90% off by Oct 15 and then if we have places left with feed (wetter spots after freeze up) we have gotten approval to turn out again after calves are weaned. We have enough fall and winter grazing under fence to last until the New year regardless.

Potzy, the guy that wrote that book is trapping my wolves.....

[boxhitch]

Thanks for that link.


Determining the predator from bite wounds photos! (also applies to other ungulates)
http://www.cattlemen.bc.ca/docs/miti...ler%20file.pdf (http://www.cattlemen.bc.ca/docs/mitigating%20cattle%20losses%20a%20field%20guide%2 0for%20ranchers_smaller%20file.pdf)

[gcreek]

Another wolf went out in the back of Dan's truck today.

Down to one pair and the 3 bulls to get in.

Saw something different today. Was bunching cows at one place to get a count on them. About 50 pairs were bedded and feeding at the corner of one hayfield. I drove through and around them to get an idea of who was there when a mule deer fawn came out of the brush and thought it would mingle with the cows. It looked as though it had been orphaned for a while and didn't follow the other deer when they left for lower elevations a month ago.
The cows weren't really impressed with the deer and would bunt at it when it came too close. Every so often it would make a little run and several cows would start bawling and chasing it as they would a dog or predator. The fawn got in front of the bunch a couple times and actually turned them back. The two times I used my dogs to bunch things back together, the fawn saw them and ran to the center of the herd, starting the confusion all over again.
Finally got the cows where I wanted them and went to another corner for another bunch. The fawn was making it's way across the field and into the timber on my way back.

It will likely be turds before long.

[GoatGuy]

Just received an email from a friend who has property west of Williams Lake. Said the folks leasing it were hoping to a holiday this winter but the wolves are so bad around they're place they're worried that the cattle will disappear even with a caretaker.

The solutions for the ranchers are to quit ranching, subdivide into smaller chunks, high fence it off or get a real predator management program going. Other than a predator management program 'us' hunters and wildlife will lose out with every other option.

As much as some hunters don't like it we're going to have to partner up with ranchers on this issue.

[BlacktailStalker]

I believe it my buddy just about lost a hound to 9 wolves yesterday west of the puddle. The majority of sign is wolf sign.
Bring on the aerial assassins and more.

[markomoose]

Oh you must live in North Thompson area.Place is crawling with those B*******!!!!!!

[Wrj]

GCreek, any updates?

[.330 Dakota]

YUP its legal for any LICENCED trapper to trap private PROPERTY with written PERMISSION . :-D RJ

Hey Jim, You and I should take a roadtrip out there this winter and shoot as many as we can...

[Big Lew]

Just returned a couple of weeks ago from the north-west Thompson area....there was wolf feces just about everywhere I went on the logging spurs. In the 40 years of poking about in that area I've never seen such a phenomenon.

[Bugle M In]

yup, there everywhere in there for sure!
never thought it would happen.

[Xbow]

February 2014 Wild Fur Sale - North American Fur Auctions (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nafa.ca%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2FNAFA_2014-02-WF-USA.pdf&ei=tbgVVKC1NIOiyAS9hIHQDg&usg=AFQjCNGnbIpkPVXrwI6TulCfLQbnul3AeA&bvm=bv.75097201,d.aWw&cad=rja)www.nafa.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/.../NAFA_2014-02-WF-USA.pdf




Can you sell pelts with bullet holes in them?

[bc traper]

Yes you can sell wolf pelts you shoot but don't expect much return for the amount of time it takes to prep it

[steveo]

Word through the grape vine is if you are going to market a wolf in the auction you want it to come from any where north of around Williams lake. Anything south of Billies puddle and the quality of the pelt is not as good and is not haired the same way. You would make more money trying to sell it to someone who wants a rug or taxidermy work done.

[gcreek]

GCreek, any updates?

They are still hitting us. With cattle prices at record highs every calf is $1300+ gone.

Hope you all remember there are many areas in BC where there is no closed season and no bag limit for wolves.

Personally, I have seen 3 moose in the area our ranch takes up since May. Was a time not so long ago the norm was 15 - 20 a day.

[coast 1]

what areas are you guys talking about as we are going deer hunting west of Clinton next month.we hunted there last year and heard wolves and saw cattle remains left from wolfs,just a little concerned about deer numbers