Etiquette Question: who keeps the meat

[sapper]

Okay, so this weekend I went out with 3 other buddies. For one of them this would be his first opportunity to come close to connecting with an actual deer.

We split up into parties. On Saturday the other two guys were heading to a spot they were going to stake out for sunset. They had seen a lot of sign in the area and thought that it would be a good spot. On the way in they came upon a truck parked looking at a clearcut where they had apparently spotted a buck. They drove by and about half a kilometer further up the road spot a 2 by 2 about 20 metres on the other side of the road. The driver (new hunter) got out and took the shot. The buck apparently stood there for a moment, huffed and then took off into the bush. The passenger (experienced hunter) yelled for him to take a second shot but by then the buck was gone. They both went looking for the buck and then figured one should go back, get a flashlight and remove the vehicle from the road. As the passenger (without his rifle) got back to the truck the truck mentioned earlier had now caught up to them. My passenger buddy sees a 2x3 buck and asks the driver if he has a rifle and points out the 2x3. I'm not entirely sure why my buddy did not get his own rifle but I suspect he was focused on finding the wounded deer. In any case, the other driver gets out takes a shot and similarly wounds his deer and it takes off. He heads off after it and stumbles across a wounded deer that is huffing and panting. He takes a kill shot. My passenger buddy and my friend who took the initial shot see the dead deer and recognize it as theirs. The other hunter apparently makes a comment that he's not sure that the downed deer is his either.
Apparently his wife had already cut his tag though assuming it was his deer. The other hunter apparently offered to give my buddies some beer. I guess this was as thanks, a peace offering, consolation prize, to ease his guilt. Who knows.
The next morning all four of us (my 3 buddies and I) are back in the area and the other hunter shows up and my two buddies and the other hunter spent time looking for the other wounded deer.
My buddy has a great photo of him with his first kill, a 2x2 buck, but nothing at the butcher's. He hunts for the camaraderie, experience and meat so the size of the rack, etc. is not important to him.
So, here's the question. Who should keep the meat?

[hare_assassin]

No offense to you but, it sounds like a complete gong show. Both of those deer should have been down within 30 yards of being shot and both guys should have had their deer.

Who gets the meat? Well, I'd say the other guy gets the meat (he cut his tag took it home, right?). The coyotes get the other one. Nice.

[sako_300]

wtf is this all about and where are the CO's for shit like this. What a joke.

It's like Oprah Winfrey - "You get a citation, You get a citation..." (Yes, I just quoted that)

[sapper]

No offense to you but, it sounds like a complete gong show. Both of those deer should have been down within 30 yards of being shot and both guys should have had their deer.

Who gets the meat? Well, I'd say the other guy gets the meat (he cut his tag took it home, right?). The coyotes get the other one. Nice.
It did sound like a gong show. My buddies and the other hunter all took the time to look for the 2x3 though so the ethics police can stay out of this one.
Yes, I think all of us, including myself and my other incredulous buddy hearing the story for the first time learned a lot from this one.

[BiG Boar]

I am always willing to split meat equally in camp with everyone who helps out. Most of the time on smaller game like deer or black bears I just let the shooter take it all and maybe ask for a steak or two. The only time I wouldn't be willing to share my animal is if the other hunter is a trophy hunter and passes on many legal animals or opportunities. If he wanted the meat, IMO, he should have shot one that he could have. This is of course unless discussed previously to the hunt.

An issue I discovered this year that should also be discussed pre hunt, is who gets to shoot first. And when it should change to the other hunters turn.

[sapper]

Big Boar, sorry, maybe I was not clear. The issue here is that my buddy shot the harvested animal first and then the other guy (a stranger to us) came along and put the finishing shot in the deer and cut his tag and took the deer home.

[shamrock09]

I think the first guy who shot the 2x2 should get the meat and also cut his tag regardless if he gets the meat or not. It also sounds like everybody could use a little more time at the range! Sad to hear a deer went to waste.

[huntcoop]

Sounds like a complete gonger.

[hare_assassin]

Big Boar, sorry, maybe I was not clear. The issue here is that my buddy shot the harvested animal first and then the other guy (a stranger to us) came along and put the finishing shot in the deer and cut his tag and took the deer home.

So the other guy "killed" the deer. Crappy situation for your buddy, but I'd just leave it as a big learning experience and move on.

[hare_assassin]

... and also cut his tag regardless if he gets the meat or not...

You'd never see me cutting a tag for an unrecovered or co-opted deer.

[Gateholio]

He who kills it cuts his tag. The mistake was getting somebody else involved.

How is much beer did they get?

[frenchbar]

I would of asked for a 40 of royal reserve...

[russm]

I would've been taking MY deer home, there wouldn't be a question about it

[Gun Dog]

I cut my tag when I'm standing over a dead critter. It's never been clear to me who legally cuts their tag -- the initial shooter or the kill shot shooter. It could be an honest mistake and you win some or you lose some. Or the wife could have gamed the situation by quickly cutting the tag to "claim the deer".

[hare_assassin]

...Or the wife could have gamed the situation by quickly cutting the tag to "claim the deer".

Yep. I suspect the same thing.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Big Boar, sorry, maybe I was not clear. The issue here is that my buddy shot the harvested animal first and then the other guy (a stranger to us) came along and put the finishing shot in the deer and cut his tag and took the deer home.

WHY ? would your Buddy let himn take his Deer ? And WTF is a stranger Doing ? to come along and shoot the deer and take off with it ? This storey is a BIT off the wall - - I Believe you that it happened i just cannot believe what a GONG show it was ! :cry: RJ

[bone]

I learned in my core class that the person who first shot the deer would have first rights to the meat.

[Colinofthewoods]

I appreciate you sharing the story. It sounds to me like the other hunter should have notified you he found your buddys deer and then continued to search for the one he wounded himself, and not cut his tag till he found it.

[hare_assassin]

I appreciate you sharing the story. It sounds to me like the other hunter should have notified you he found your buddys deer and then continued to search for the one he wounded himself, and not cut his tag till he found it.

Right. But it was so dark nobody knew whose deer was whose until it had all played out.

AKA "Gong Show".

[sapper]

Right. But it was so dark nobody knew whose deer was whose until it had all played out.

AKA "Gong Show".
No, it was not "so dark nobody knew whose deer was whose..." You may have got this impression as I said that my buddy went back to get a flashlight. He did so though in anticipation that they might be there for a while and because he knew darkness was on its way. It was not yet dark though.
IMO - a great deal of this situation could have been averted had the hunter had his tag and license on him and cut his tag himself. If he was doing it himself he would have hopefully not cut the tag after he realized this was not the deer he initially shot.

[Kudu]

I keep my hunting group small for a very good reason..........

[Darksith]

you get no prize for wounding an animal. Whoever "kills" it takes it home. He who kills it cuts his tag, he who cuts his tag takes it home. No tag cut, you can't legally take the animal home. Would hate to see 2 tags cut for 1 2x2 mulie. When it goes flop, its dead. Personally I see a wounded animal that wasn't wounded by me...Im not shooting it. Who knows how long its been like that, could be all spoiled and ugly...if I did shoot it, it would simply do it to be humane, I wouldn't be packing it out. Remember, we are talking about 2 seperate parties, not known to each other, if its an in camp situation it might change things

[Ambush]

Read the OP's story again, slowly and carefully. Easy scenario to picture with new hunters and multiple deer, and trying to be helpful to fellow hunters.

Sure it turned into a confusing mess, but that's what sometimes happens during times of high excitement.

But in the end, the kill shot cuts the tag and after that it's all up to etiquette and courtesy. The second party could have shown more etiquette by offering to split the meat. I wouldn't want it myself, after the deer was wounded and wound up on adrenalin. Your not missing much for quality eating.

To bad, but don't let it ruin your season, just go get another one and treat this one as a learning experience.

[Gateholio]

Really?... An animal is wounded by a hunter but is still alive... Another hunter comes along and fires a shot to kill it,... who is legally deemed to have killed it? Who could provide a definitive answer within the BC context?

It's probably the opinion of that CORE instructor.

[Cookie1965]

There are some situations in Alaska (specific animals in specific MUs) where you are required to cut your tag after wounding/losing an animal. I wonder what kind of compliance they get?

[two-feet]

Yup, shit can go south pretty fast out there. If it was me i would let the whole thing go and absorb the lessons learned. And the people on this sight that are quick to judge have most likely made mistakes in the past as well

[sapper]

I keep my hunting group small for a very good reason..........
I'm not quite sure your point here. A group of 4 is not a large group. I was happy to be able to have a new hunter out enjoying what we all love. Among his words of thanks to me last night, "I would do it [the trip] in a heartbeat. I've got the memories and the pics as proof."

[sapper]

To bad, but don't let it ruin your season, just go get another one and treat this one as a learning experience.
Other words from my buddy last night: "It was life-enriching." He loved his time out there. I thought I'd post the question though as I thought, apparently rightly so, that there'd be a plethora of opinions on HBC. :)

[Gateholio]

I would of asked for a 40 of royal reserve...

good point.....

[Sofa King]

shit happens.
it's all learning experiences.
as far as who's deer, whoever killed it.
at least you get to keep hunting, and wet your whistle for free to boot.

[bone]

Really?... An animal is wounded by a hunter but is still alive... Another hunter comes along and fires a shot to kill it,... who is legally deemed to have killed it? Who could provide a definitive answer within the BC context?


Legally no but Etiquette yes. Because there were two deer shot in this story I can see the miss understanding.

[skibum]

Both of those deer should have been down within 30 yards of being shot and both guys should have had their deer.


Ya, okay buddy.

Really does not sound like a gong show to me. I could see how this happened. I have shot a buck where the a second buck just continued grazing over the dead deer.

Offering up the the second deer to someone else was a pretty cool thing your friend did.

Shat happens...... but one who kills it, cancels the tag. Offering up the beer was a good idea

[Island Idiots]

Free Beer in the Bush is worth more than a wounded deer in the bush. Just my 2 cents. He who kills it, tags it. Drink the beer, relax and try again. It's all about the experiance.

[Tenacious Billy]

Big Boar, sorry, maybe I was not clear. The issue here is that my buddy shot the harvested animal first and then the other guy (a stranger to us) came along and put the finishing shot in the deer and cut his tag and took the deer home.

I'm sure glad I don't have to hunt under conditions like this....as mentioned, it sounds like an absolute gong show.

[E.V.B.H.]

In a situation involving strangers I also say whoever killed it cuts the tag and keeps it. He probably should have backed out and found the original shooter, but it's easy to judge a situation, maybe he couldn't. And don't cut your tag on an animal you didn't take with you.

[J-Man]

My dad had a situation in Reg 5, stopped to help an older fellow out. Old guy said he saw 3 bucks, shot one but couldn't find it. Dad stops to help the old timer, they are looking a couple of minutes. Dad asks what it was, guy says 2x2, dad points out a 2x2 looking at them from the top of a crest. Old timer shoots it, it drops. As they walk up to this 2x2 my dad spots another 2x2 dead down and to the right behind one of those scrub bushes. At that point he gets the full story the 3 bucks were 2 2x2 and a spike. The old guy ended up shooting both the 2x2's, my dad wasn't to impressed but cut his tag and took one of them home.

[goatdancer]

Why did the wife cut the tag? The hunter is supposed to carry the tag with him and cut it when the animal is killed.

[shamrock09]

hare_assassin...If you shoot an animal... it dies!... whether or not you find it! Therefore the ethical thing to do is cut your tag!

[Spy]

hare_assassin...If you shoot an animal... it dies!... whether or not you find it! Therefore the ethical thing to do is cut your tag!
No its the wrong thing to do, you only cut your tag when you are standing over the "dead" animal. The ethical thing to do if you wound an animal is to count it as your bag & stop hunting.

[Geo.338]

Why did the wife cut the tag? The hunter is supposed to carry the tag with him and cut it when the animal is killed.

Buddy needs his nads booted for this

[olp87]

first of all i believe its clearly written in the core book that the person whom dispatches the animal has final rights to the animal by law. also i think it is ethical to cut your tag if you have shot and animal and cannot recover it IE; wounded the animal as it will surly not survive afterwards. just my 2 cents.

First timer joke:
If you need some cheap protein try deer balls you get 2 of them under a buck!

[E.V.B.H.]

hare_assassin...If you shoot an animal... it dies!... whether or not you find it! Therefore the ethical thing to do is cut your tag!

Not true at all. Lots of animals survive being shot. I know people who have shot animals and found broad heads or bullets in them covered in scar tissue. Also I'm not sure if it's even legal to cut a tag with no animal. Stop hunting that species for the year if you feel bad, but don't cut your tag with no animal to go with it.

[Davey Crockett]

I might be going against the grain a bit but if someone wounds an animal that needs a follow up shot (i.e. it would have died pretty quick; a lung shot...), then it is the original shooter's deer. If someone wounds a deer and I help to track it and happen to be the one to put it down, I'm not looking for it to be my deer. I look at it as helping someone get their deer.
If it wasn't mortally wounded: maybe shot in the foot, eyelash, hind quarter, nose or ear for example then I think if someone else catches up to it and takes it down, it's their deer. It's not as simple as the whoever put the kill shot in it gets it but it makes more sense to me.

i think the op mentioned that the 2pt was huffing. I'm not sure if he meant it was lung shot...

[sapper]

i think the op mentioned that the 2pt was huffing. I'm not sure if he meant it was lung shot...
That's what my buddy thought had happened. He thinks the bullet went in, hit a shoulder bone and then the lungs. Of course, not being allowed to gut it himself and do a post mortem it is all supposition.

[hare_assassin]

hare_assassin...If you shoot an animal... it dies!... whether or not you find it! Therefore the ethical thing to do is cut your tag!

Nonsense. How do you know you shot it? Maybe your scope is way off from getting knocked on the gear-shift and you missed it completely. The noise made the deer run away.

You would cut your tag in this situation? Just plain wrong.

As others have said; you cut the tag over the dead animal. End of story.

[aggiehunter]

meat sharing should be discussed and clarified before the hunt starts...next time.

[Davey Crockett]

meat sharing should be discussed and clarified before the hunt starts...next time.
This is the thing, the guy that took the deer wasn't in their hunting party. He was a good samariton or an opportunist depending on how you look at it.

[ActionJackson017]

Wow. Theoretically, I'm with Davey Crockett on this one.

I'm glad to hear that OP's buddy had the right attitude; it's about the camaraderie of being out and not necessarily the result. But I think had that scenario played out in front of me, I'd have made the 3rd party guy admit that he knowingly shot AT a 2x3, whereas the wounded animal they located and dispatched was a 2x2 ~ and consequently was most likely the original 2x2 the OPs group was out looking for and see how the cards fall on the guy's response.

Having said that though, I 100% admit though that I avoid conflict in general, and if 3rd party buddy or his wife started getting uppity about it, I'd have surrendered the animal and chalked it up to a lesson learned. I'd congratulate the guy and moved on. After all, it is 3rd party guy who DID make the killing shot, and OP's buddy, sans his own rifle clearly is not in a position to place the kill shot himself.

Very interesting scenario.

[f350ps]

Too bad for yer pal Sapper, he got snookered by a low life! That said, although most people may call it a gong show, if they've never had one they haven't hunted long enough, they happen to everybody eventually! K

[Sleep Robber]

What kinda man lets his wife carry his tags for him ??
My wife has her own tags, mine are mine.........period !!!

[Phreddy]

sounds like you were hunting in the Princeton area. It's a gong show out there with some real dandies showing off their lack of any kind of hunting ethics or etiquette.

[Gun Dog]

What kinda man lets his wife carry his tags for him ??
My wife has her own tags, mine are mine.........period !!!You weren't there. Some guys put their wallet in the console because it's too fat to sit on. I'm not gonna get in a fight over a deer but, being a smart ass, I might harass the wife for cutting the tag.

[Gateholio]

hare_assassin...If you shoot an animal... it dies!... whether or not you find it! Therefore the ethical thing to do is cut your tag!

Please don't give out advice that could result in someone being ticketed by a CO.

[Rob]

I think it was Prof. Plum in the in the Billiards room with the candle stick

[Papa Sasquatch]

Nothing to see here folks, move along ...

[sapper]

Yeah, I was impressed by my buddy's attitude. Disappointed for him when I heard the story back at camp but impressed. The other more experienced hunter that was out with him really tried to assist and at least got him a photo of him and his buck.

[Steeleco]

Sad but a good learning lesson for the newb. But the up side!! Who else gets to have 2 first deers. Get back out there and don't be so sharing with strangers!!

[olp87]

A few years ago I was stopped by a CO (routine check) and he asked to see my licence and tags he noticed that my mule deer tag was cut but not fully trimmed out correctly, I apologized and expressed I was excited and shaky when cutting my tag and went on to explain I had mortally wounded the deer as I found lots of toonie sized blood spots but after spending 3 days with a lot of rainfall I never did recover it. He looked at me surprised of my honesty and then thanked me for doing the correct thing and cutting my tag - he then signed off on my tag (since it was poorly trimmed)

[Philcott]

So did nobody think to look for the wounded 2x3? Wounding a deer and not putting in a good effort to retrieve it is an offence.

If I was there I wouldn't have cared if the wife cut a tag, that doesn't mean a damn thing and shouldn't even be factored into the dilemma. The 2x2, in my opinion and in this situation should have been tagged by the original shooter. If the deer had run off over the hill and someone over there shot it then that's a different story but the guy that finished it off simply finished it off. First guy's deer.

[Philcott]

Cut your tag "immediately after the kill" not upon wounding the game. "After the kill"

I, personally, pulled a bullet out of the backstrap of a beautiful 4x4 mule deer that I took a few years ago. The wound had completely healed so the shot had to have been from the previous year. No one should have cancelled their tag except me when I killed the deer.


Licence CancellationIt is unlawful to be in possession of a big game
animal without a properly cancelled species
licence or otherwise by licence, permit, or
as provided by regulation. Any person who
kills any big game species must immediately
after the kill and before handling the big game
killed, cancell the appropriate species licence
in accordance with the instructions on that
licence

[sapper]

So did nobody think to look for the wounded 2x3? Wounding a deer and not putting in a good effort to retrieve it is an offence.
Yes, I already mentioned that my buddies, and myself and my hunting partner (we were split into two groups) came back the next morning and spent considerable time looking for the deer. While there the other guy, with his wife and kids, came up and spent some time looking around too.

[Philcott]

Yes, I already mentioned that my buddies, and myself and my hunting partner (we were split into two groups) came back the next morning and spent considerable time looking for the deer. While there the other guy, with his wife and kids, came up and spent some time looking around too.

Thanks for the clarification, Sapper. I went back to find that information but I obviously missed it.

[Cami]

I would say the guy who placed the first shot clams the game ( all of it ).
I went on a couple of driven hunts in Austria and that's the general there - seems to work
The guy who hit the game first gets it even if someone else puts it out of it's pain.

[Gateholio]

A few years ago I was stopped by a CO (routine check) and he asked to see my licence and tags he noticed that my mule deer tag was cut but not fully trimmed out correctly, I apologized and expressed I was excited and shaky when cutting my tag and went on to explain I had mortally wounded the deer as I found lots of toonie sized blood spots but after spending 3 days with a lot of rainfall I never did recover it. He looked at me surprised of my honesty and then thanked me for doing the correct thing and cutting my tag - he then signed off on my tag (since it was poorly trimmed)

Good thing he liked your story. Some COs would have given you a ticket

[skibum]

I would say the guy who placed the first shot clams the game ( all of it ).
I went on a couple of driven hunts in Austria and that's the general there - seems to work
The guy who hit the game first gets it even if someone else puts it out of it's pain.

That works fine when you are hunting as a group, not with strangers you bump into in the woods so much as what happened here.

[Brian011]

I wouldn't cut a tag unless the animal is on the ground.
I think the guy that shot an took the deer home is in the right, if he didn't come along and finish the deer off, you may not have even found the deer and nobody would have got it. It sounds like a very unfortunate situation how it all played out

[happyhunter]

It sounds like after wounding one deer your buddies were getting ready to shoot another when someone beat them to it. I think your buddies should've went looking for the buck that was already wounded. They might have found him before the stranger put the finishing shot in the buck and then took him home. Just my opinion, shit happens. Hope your/their future hunts go smoother in the future.

[coach]

So the stranger is the one who shot two deer here? And he's in the right? The fact he showed up in the morning to helpf find the 2x3 says he had a guilty conscience.

[happyhunter]

The stranger didn't shoot two deer. Sappers buddy shot and wounded the first deer. Then they saw a second deer and before they could shoot a stranger shot and wounded the second deer. Then the stranger went off after the wounded deer. The stranger found a wounded deer, shot and killed it and IT turned out to be the first wounded deer. All the hunters then went to look for the second wounded deer the next day. That's how I read it.

[coach]

And what you just typed says the stranger shot two deer.

[happyhunter]

Are u serious? Do you think that guy knew there was more then one wounded deer? If you just shot and wounded a deer and then saw a wounded deer standing there wouldn't u naturally assume it was the one you just shot? Sure one was a 2x2 and one was a 2x3 but do you think in the heat of the moment you would really notice? I think as soon as you spotted a wounded buck you would naturally assume it was the one you just shot. Maybe not you coach, but I bet that the stranger did.

[coach]

Not looking for an argument, happyhunter - but once the 2x2 was down for good - it should have been clear that the 3x2 that the stranger shot was still walking around wounded. I have no issue with him assisting by putting the 2x2 out of it's misery but the fact is, the strangers' 3x2 was never recovered. I can't see any justification for him taking the 2x2.

[happyhunter]

I tend to agree with you there

[sapper]

I guess was ambiguous there but Coach has it right. My buddy shot a 2x2 which ran off wounded. My buddy (the shooter) took off after it while my other buddy went back to turn off the truck, move it off the road and get a flashlight for in case they were in the bush for a while.
When he got back to the truck he saw the other 2x3 buck and pointed it out to the other vehicle that has just arrived who also gave a wounding shot to that buck which took off as well. The other shooter now went looking for his 2x3 deer and ran into my buddy's 2x2 and delivered the fatal shot.

[coach]

A CO would not be impressed to know the stranger shot at two different deer. Most of us probably agree with him finishing off the 2x2 - but it was his responsibility to do everything in his power to find the buck he originally wounded. Tagging the 2x2 was hardly the right way to handle things.

[happyhunter]

That does clarify things Sapper. I would say at the point the stranger realized it was not the same deer he had originally wounded it was time to go looking for that 2x3 that he did.

[behemoth]

What's the matter with you guys?? In any similar situation I would be a gentleman and offer the deer to the other guy.
Like there aren't a million two points to be had.

[Davey Crockett]

How certain was the third party guy that he had found his 2x3 when he had actually killed the first deer? What a clusterf@ck.

[rainman]

I keep my hunting group small for a very good reason..........

couldnt have said it better myself

[sapper]

couldnt have said it better myself

And the other trick is keeping everyone else off the mountain your hunting party is on. :)