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Thread: Five Point Bull Elk

  1. #121
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    Re: Five Point Bull Elk

    Quote Originally Posted by LBM View Post
    Don't think you can consider all road closures as the same, a couple buddys and I have been in a few this year and seen more hunters then anything, even the ones that still drive in.
    But I will take you up on your offer about sharing we will bike/hike into the area where you only saw 2 hunters send me the info. Thanks.
    But did you get off the road in the road closure? Could be everyone hunting the same 66 foot wide right-of-way, expecting to have it all to themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by chevy
    Sorry!!!! but in all honesty, i could care less,, what todbartell! actually thinks
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    but man how much pepporoni can your arshole take anyways !

  2. #122
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    Re: Five Point Bull Elk

    Quote Originally Posted by Ourea View Post
    Season used to be 3 point, 3 months long with more elk hunters..........



    Granted.
    There were also only a fraction of the FSR's that we currently now see.
    Most of the once extensive old growth has been removed or dissected leaving very little undisturbed habitat for elk to survive and hide in compared to the era you are referring to. The Okanagan population has more than tripled leading to unprecedented encroachment. There are more and more tools at a hunters disposal none of the least being social media that pretty much pulls the pants down on any area.
    FN's is becoming an unquantified factor in the majority of harvest do to said FSR density and unprecedented access to elk areas.
    The dynamics have changed dramatically and regulation needs to reflect that understanding.
    Do to the mentioned factors we are already seeing a significant drop in harvest and is trending down aggressively.


    What would limiting opportunity and harvest do for elk?
    It would allow for a robust herd that is balanced in both age and sex which puts more legal bulls out overall.
    The later seasons and 3 point restriction back in the day was a major factor in hammering down the overall health of our Reg 8 herd.
    If memory serves harvest plummeted to a handful of elk being legally harvested in the OK area for a number of years.
    Of that harvest almost all were 3 points with an occasional 5 point.
    (Ironically half of that harvest was from the same 3 or 4 guys every year)

    Anyway, that's the first few things that jump out at me at first blush.[/QUOTE]



    I'm no expert but I would think that with a little funding, somehow, toward de-activating a percentage of spurs off of main FSR's, the elk hunting AND moose AND mule deer hunting in the Okanagan would be greatly enhanced in the coming years...

  3. #123
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    Re: Five Point Bull Elk

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryToolips View Post
    I'm no expert but I would think that with a little funding, somehow, toward de-activating a percentage of spurs off of main FSR's, the elk hunting AND moose AND mule deer hunting in the Okanagan would be greatly enhanced in the coming years...
    When hunter harvest is NOT a factor in these game populations with the current restrictive and LEH seasons, how will your plan improve elk/moose/mule deer hunting?
    Quote Originally Posted by chevy
    Sorry!!!! but in all honesty, i could care less,, what todbartell! actually thinks
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    but man how much pepporoni can your arshole take anyways !

  4. #124
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    Re: Five Point Bull Elk

    Quote Originally Posted by LBM View Post
    Don't think you can consider all road closures as the same, a couple buddys and I have been in a few this year and seen more hunters then anything, even the ones that still drive in.
    But I will take you up on your offer about sharing we will bike/hike into the area where you only saw 2 hunters send me the info. Thanks.
    Hahaha, for you I would recommend the akamina kishenina. Pile of country, next to no hunters and some whopper elk.

    Road closure starts september 10th.

    Have fun.
    Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world.

    Mandela

  5. #125
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    Re: Five Point Bull Elk

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher-Dude View Post
    When hunter harvest is NOT a factor in these game populations with the current restrictive and LEH seasons, how will your plan improve elk/moose/mule deer hunting?
    Good point Fisher dude.Back in the 50s and 60s there was relatively little access to the elk in the okanagan and not many hunters.The elk numbers did not increase much beyond what it is today.

  6. #126
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    Re: Five Point Bull Elk

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher-Dude View Post
    When hunter harvest is NOT a factor in these game populations with the current restrictive and LEH seasons, how will your plan improve elk/moose/mule deer hunting?
    -First off, I suggest picking up a copy of the BC Outdoors Magazine and educate yourself, read the 2014 hunting forecast
    -Reducing road access would thus far be our only way of reducing FN's harvest
    -Links to road access impact on moose populations, as I posted for you on the thread that I started about FSR De-activation:
    http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/documents/moose.pdf
    Can't seem to copy a link on this one, so google this one:

    ROAD DENSITY AND POTENTIAL IMPACTS ON WILDLIFE
    SPECIES SUCH AS AMERICAN MOOSE
    IN MAINLAND NOVA SCOTIA

    I know these are for moose, but you should get the idea..
    -Finally, road access is known to give preds an upper hand:
    http://www.wildlandsleague.org/attachments/Roads.Report.pdf

  7. #127
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    Re: Five Point Bull Elk

    So you want to control FN harvest? Do you have any documentation of the impact of FN harvest on animal populations in the areas you're proposing (ie, not Nova Scotia moose which have no preds and vastly different habitat from the Okanagan)?

    How did moose and elk numbers double in the Okanagan the past decade with the huge FN harvest impacts you're assuming?

    Have you investigated the legal ramifications of your idea which could be considered an infringement on FN rights?

    These are the questions that game and forestry officials will be asking you when you knock on the door with your head full of ideas.

    I really hope you're not relying on BC Outdoors' hunting forecast to guide your hunting. That would be like relying on Jelvis' 1982 road synopsis to guide your next trek into the forest. Perhaps that's the reason for your shitty success rate rather than a lack of game animals?
    Quote Originally Posted by chevy
    Sorry!!!! but in all honesty, i could care less,, what todbartell! actually thinks
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    but man how much pepporoni can your arshole take anyways !

  8. #128
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    Re: Five Point Bull Elk

    Quote Originally Posted by ellenbill View Post

    Cam you explain what you mean by "we're creating new opportunity based on some criteria" I have seen no change for Elk other than hunting in the trench below 1100 metres and that's a zoo.
    Contrary to what GG is suggesting about participants on the wildlife committee. I believe through working together everyone has a greater understanding of the pursuits of others and greater respect. Of course there are times when discussions get heated. It's what you do with the information that is important.

    To your point:
    It isn't all about wildlife management in the EK, but all of Reg 4.
    In 2010, where elk in the West Kootenay not on LEH?

    In 2011 a WK GOS for elk was created, season length was consistent with other WK Mu's, Oct 1 - 20
    In the EK, a Sr/Yth season for antlerless was introduced
    In the EK we saw our first spike season in a long time.
    Of course this might be targeting the rancher agenda, but it is still about creating opportunity

    In 2012 - 2014 Regulations the WK elk GOS was aligned to a Sept 10th opening
    The WK archery season was also aligned to Sept 1-9 and remaining MU's were added

    In 2014 - 2016 we've adjusted antlerless harvest by removing the GOS antlerless, shifting to a lower harvest model on cows through archery and continued to maintain focus on whining ranchers with some private land hunts. I see this as inconsequential for the most part, but the action does portray acknowledgement of the position of the ranchers.

    May seem like small steps to some, but I know it's a lot of work for others. I did want to add, if you are having difficulty finding quiet locations to hunt below 1100 send me a PM. It can be difficult to think outside the high fences and what we traditionally see as the agriculture zone. Take a good look at the map for the sub 1100 metre. Lots of good pockets to hunt.
    Last edited by J_T; 09-30-2014 at 09:37 AM.

  9. #129
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    Re: Five Point Bull Elk

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher-Dude View Post
    My comments in bold.

    Social regulations are what have killed off hunters and cheapened the value of wildlife in government's eyes for the past 40 years. All we have now after this 40 year experiment is less game and groups like yours calling for more social regulations.

    A better solution is to make more game.
    FD - You are like a spoiled little boy worried that your brother might get a gold star when you only got a silver star... pick up a bow and get to work slacker... nothing is stopping you from enjoying the opportunity, you even own a crossbow!

    You see my brother it isn't just about "social" reasons its actually about creating opportunity within a conservative conservation model. To wit, bowhunters take far fewer animals than rifle hunters due to the difficulty inherent in the pursuit, ergo by expanding "bowhunting" opportunity we create opportunity for anyone that wants to hunt hard. I'm proposing that we take animals across the age/maturity spectrum which you seems to think and agree is a good idea. The question is whether a GOS is sustainable given today's reality, and as much as you still like the 60's and 70's things have changed..... its time to toss out your bell bottoms and put down the pipe my friend!

    To the OPs point since we are up close and personal at the moment of truth bowhunters are less likely to miscount tines when there are antler restrictions (regardless of the efficacy validity of said restrictions).

    Similarly road closures do protect over hunted herds/drainages... (wolves, bear, cougar, poachers, and hunters regardless of race). Clowures are reviewed every year at teh Provincial table and seem to be agreed upon by the BCWF as well as the other participants.

    I'll admit that in MY personal perfect hunting nirvana that quads simply screw things up... environmental damage, and interrupting herd behaviour... see this year after year. I love riding for the joy of it, and quads are awesome tools for game extraction but otherwise suck sausage. If you are just riding logging roads take the truck, quieter, safer, warmer.

    When are you coming to the island... free archery lesson for you anytime! See bowhunters aren't eletist snobs, we would even welcome YOU!
    "When you judge another you don't define them, you define yourself."

  10. #130
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    Re: Five Point Bull Elk

    When there's no scientific reason to restrict harvest, there's no need for access restrictions nor special weapons seasons.

    With the moose and elk populations doubling in the past decade in the area of discussion, why should hunters support further restrictions on hunting them?
    Quote Originally Posted by chevy
    Sorry!!!! but in all honesty, i could care less,, what todbartell! actually thinks
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    but man how much pepporoni can your arshole take anyways !

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