Funded Management for Our Future

[Ourea]

"Guess what, wolves, wolves...."

When I was kid I never saw wolves. Know you see them on the road, and find their tracks, sign and hear them all over.

Anecdotal, I know....

Sightings/confirmation is from a ministry chopper flight earlier this week.
Reg 8

[LBM]

Hashing the past has no impact on the future.
Yesterday is just that, yesterday.

It will take a lot of effort behind the scenes but there is a "will" building.

Funny, we all look to hang blame on someone or group as responsible for a collective problem.
The mirror is the best place to start.

I kind of disagree with this hashing the past may not help but figuring out what happened in the past has an impact.
Declining populations is not new, so trying to find out what happened or caused it is important.
Each region and MU has its own problems/issues. Don't no what goes on in your region but in region 4 declines have
been going on for 30 plus years, wasn't a predator problem that started them, now in some MUs that may be one of
the issues.
The one constant in declining/disappearing numbers in pretty much ever case that I have seen was logging first then an increase
in human activity/numbers.

[LBM]

I'm not an expert nor do I claim to have all the high touted eddicashun that all these experts got but I do know what I have witnessed. If you care to discuss this you can pm me your phone number and I'll gladly set you straight. Haha

I do know that in my immediate area, the slaughter of the late 80s and early 90s, the unregulated native hunt on the same road and a governmenr's reluctance to deal with predators are the main factors to the loss of moose here. To a lesser degree, preventing ranchers from burning old swamp grass and brush in the spring might have some effect on the habitat.

There are are no more cows, very few more roads, the cut locks logged between 1986 and 1991 are all thick and 15 to 20 ft tall now and the latest logging has been minimal. There has never been any chemical sprayed here either.

The main factors are wolves and grizzlies.

The longer the experts keep pulling wool over the believers eyes, the longer the studies will last with no conclusion and the less game you will have in the bush.

Just for discussion sake, how much "natural habitat" is on the prairies of Alberta and Sask. where moose are flourishing?

Interesting so if im reading this right the main factors you claim to the loss of the moose in your area are human caused. You even state unregulated native hunts to be an
issue but yet if it benefits you your all right with them to continue this practice on grizzlys.

[LBM]

Sightings/confirmation is from a ministry chopper flight earlier this week.
Reg 8

So what did they see for numbers of ungulates and wolves.

[Rob Chipman]

Gcreek:

"If we all concede to those thoughts we just as well all die off and leave it to the animals."

Conceding is irrelevant. Neither one of us is doing that. I'm just saying that you should recognize what we're up against and what will win. You can't argue with that fighting smart isn't fighting.

You could argue that I'm identifying the wrong things that we're up against (I don't think I am - business people and rural people are on record as being opposed to grizzly and predator hunting, and we're fooling ourselves if we deny that) or you could argue that I'm wrong about what will win (again, I don't think I am and I think public opinion, if we get it on our side in a neutral to positive degree will be invaluable).

You can't argue that I'm conceding to those thoughts. I'm just recognizing that they're there and we need to respond to them in order to get where we want to go. You can't sell predator control in this province by saying "Look, I know more than all of you guys. Just do what I say!" You need to convince fence-sitters and marginalize the people who hold diametrically opposed views (the guys who use phrases like "welfare ranchers", for example; you think they'll take your word for anything? And yet they vote and are effective activists. That's who we're up against).

Like I said before - don't shoot the messenger.

[Rob Chipman]

gcreek:

To add to "welfare ranchers" I just ran across another new phrase: "eco-colonialist". This may actually work for us and you and bearvalley will get it: its a conflict between white eco-warriors and FNs who don't wnat to be told by said white eco-warriors how to live their lives.

[gcreek]

Interesting so if im reading this right the main factors you claim to the loss of the moose in your area are human caused. You even state unregulated native hunts to be an
issue but yet if it benefits you your all right with them to continue this practice on grizzlys.

Your comprehension doesn't improve with age does it?

[gcreek]

Gcreek:

"If we all concede to those thoughts we just as well all die off and leave it to the animals."

Conceding is irrelevant. Neither one of us is doing that. I'm just saying that you should recognize what we're up against and what will win. You can't argue with that fighting smart isn't fighting.

You could argue that I'm identifying the wrong things that we're up against (I don't think I am - business people and rural people are on record as being opposed to grizzly and predator hunting, and we're fooling ourselves if we deny that) or you could argue that I'm wrong about what will win (again, I don't think I am and I think public opinion, if we get it on our side in a neutral to positive degree will be invaluable).

You can't argue that I'm conceding to those thoughts. I'm just recognizing that they're there and we need to respond to them in order to get where we want to go. You can't sell predator control in this province by saying "Look, I know more than all of you guys. Just do what I say!" You need to convince fence-sitters and marginalize the people who hold diametrically opposed views (the guys who use phrases like "welfare ranchers", for example; you think they'll take your word for anything? And yet they vote and are effective activists. That's who we're up against).

Like I said before - don't shoot the messenger.

I hope not to. You are one on here I have great respect for. Thanks for your efforts.

[gcreek]

gcreek:

To add to "welfare ranchers" I just ran across another new phrase: "eco-colonialist". This may actually work for us and you and bearvalley will get it: its a conflict between white eco-warriors and FNs who don't wnat to be told by said white eco-warriors how to live their lives.

Some are, I've pretty much paid my way along from the first cow I bought with my own money. The only thing I inherited was the will to succeed from my Grand dad.

[bownut]

Sightings/confirmation is from a ministry chopper flight earlier this week.
Reg 8

This is old news, do you think that the general public will believe it now when they won't even recognize the science on the g-bears.
Let the bios keep taking photos until the wolves start eating poodles, nothing will change.