Lets Talk about Road Acces

[RobU]

I'm gonna say it again.....that endless habitat loss and infinite road building equates to JOBS. As I said earlier, its a shitty choice to have to make....but it is the reality. There are tens of thousands of British Columbians who make their living off resource extraction. For the folks who don't work in industry, or maybe are retired, its much easier to want to put habitat first. I have been through a permanent mill closure...i was one of the lucky ones...as a tradesman, i had options....many, many others were not so lucky and were economically devastated.

Would I love to see a "best case scenario" where habitat is priority, and everyone still has their job....sure, of course I would.....but thats not realistic.

I'll say it again...its a shitty choice to have to make.... but for all on this thread, ask yourself....would YOU give up YOUR job in the name of habitat conservation?? Thats really what it comes down to

JMO
Chris

very valid points. There’s many ,many jobs performing 100% deactivation as well. For a long time. Not to argue economics with you because it’s an important factor. I for one can say there’s life after logging. As we debate this topic and present great ideas it should be known that as hunters we are way behind on this subject. There are many special interest groups out there doing much the same but they are ready to move past just casual discussions. David Suzuki was just doing a presentation in UBCO a few days ago and guess what he was talking about? Same thing we are. Now love or hate the guy one thing to know is that when he takes the time with all his leaf licker buddies to research and do a presentation, a whole lotta people listen. And rest assured they’re not worried about us being able to get to our favourite hunting spots. In particular we need to pay very close attention to Y2Y plus the negotiation and dialogues for the caribou from Columbia and Peace basins. All back country activities are at stake including our hunting.

[Bugle M In]

I'm gonna say it again.....that endless habitat loss and infinite road building equates to JOBS. As I said earlier, its a shitty choice to have to make....but it is the reality. There are tens of thousands of British Columbians who make their living off resource extraction. For the folks who don't work in industry, or maybe are retired, its much easier to want to put habitat first. I have been through a permanent mill closure...i was one of the lucky ones...as a tradesman, i had options....many, many others were not so lucky and were economically devastated.

Would I love to see a "best case scenario" where habitat is priority, and everyone still has their job....sure, of course I would.....but thats not realistic.

I'll say it again...its a shitty choice to have to make.... but for all on this thread, ask yourself....would YOU give up YOUR job in the name of habitat conservation?? Thats really what it comes down to

JMO
Chris

My point wasn't to take away from people making a living.
We all use the products that come from forestry.
And yes, jobs matter, especially politically, way above the environment when need be.

My point was to say "why are we just blaming ourselves" (some of us anyways).
There are so many things at play, that are creating the issues.
If you guys want, I could take pics of Kamloops in 1984 and now, to show the growth of a city.
Take Kelowna, do the same and all those vineyards.
It's just what it is.

The bigger point is:
"We are not a world leader when it comes to environment like we think we are".
Especially for a 1st world nation.
Yes, 3rd world countries don't care about dick, when people don't have 2 pennies to rub together.

But, how can we set the example of how the environment and jobs can work hand in hand when we are still doing things
the way we are??
We as hunter are just seeing what the end result is by the lack of game we are seeing in the forests.

A lot has to change.
Much of it is far and above beyond the "hunting realm".
Besides that, what's left to cut???
And, if fires continue, there wont be anything to cut in 10 years anyways.
Will have to wait for it to all grow back up.
We need to find other ways to harvest resources and create jobs to re-create what we took.
Otherwise there wont be any jobs, and no animals to hunt.

[willyqbc]

A very good first step would be to ban raw log exports.....last numbers I saw were 8-9 million cubic meters a year of raw logs heading off shore. Thats a lot of habitat and a lot of roads with no jobs coming from it beyond the logging jobs. And we've been exporting at these levels for a long time now.

[Pemby_mess]

A very good first step would be to ban raw log exports.....last numbers I saw were 8-9 million cubic meters a year of raw logs heading off shore. Thats a lot of habitat and a lot of roads with no jobs coming from it beyond the logging jobs. And we've been exporting at these levels for a long time now.

The type of logging mostly being talked about here, has shed many of its jobs already, in the form of feller-bunchers and other means of mechanization. Great for capital investors, not so good for local economies that used to depend on having at least a few dozen well paid fallers in each BC town. This process is only going to continue, and it's high time people in the west adjust their policies accordingly.

[Wild one]

The type of logging mostly being talked about here, has shed many of its jobs already, in the form of feller-bunchers and other means of mechanization. Great for capital investors, not so good for local economies that used to depend on having at least a few dozen well paid fallers in each BC town. This process is only going to continue, and it's high time people in the west adjust their policies accordingly.

Logging still provides a lot of jobs and with yearly income ranging from 60k-150k+ a year they are jobs that sustain a family on a single persons salary. These jobs are also what whole communities depend on. These are jobs that are often located in areas that can provide affordable living that is not possible in larger communities

There is multiple forms of logging and fallers are still used in some styles.

The number of jobs is not everything when it comes to the economy

[Wild one]

A very good first step would be to ban raw log exports.....last numbers I saw were 8-9 million cubic meters a year of raw logs heading off shore. Thats a lot of habitat and a lot of roads with no jobs coming from it beyond the logging jobs. And we've been exporting at these levels for a long time now.

This would be good do to the fact mill jobs help off set the logging job losses

[Bugle M In]

A very good first step would be to ban raw log exports.....last numbers I saw were 8-9 million cubic meters a year of raw logs heading off shore. Thats a lot of habitat and a lot of roads with no jobs coming from it beyond the logging jobs. And we've been exporting at these levels for a long time now.

Totally agree with that.
I just cant remember if this came about in part due to "Free Trade" agreement back in the day?
If so, then there probably is a stipulation that we have to export "X" amount of raw logs.
Either way, if we want to talk road access and what to do about it, it shows how complex the situation gets because the roads exist due to logging.
In other words, a simple problem suddenly becomes an issue with a multitude of facets with issues in themselves.
And road access, or maybe I should have just said "Access" is only one of many issues with game and not seeing it like before.

[willyqbc]

I just cant remember if this came about in part due to "Free Trade" agreement back in the day?

IIRC ....it was nothing to due with free trade. It came in, part and parcel with some other changes the industry was lobbying for. besides the increase in allowable raw exports, the other HUGE change that has also contributed to this situation was that back in the day, specific mills had their own quotas of logs. And those logs came from within that mills own geographic region. The west frasers and canfors of the world lobbied and got that changed to a company quota not tied to any specific mill. I believe prior to this change timber baskets in a certain region were not large enough to justify building "super mills", but once that restriction was lifted and logs could be sent wherever the companies wanted....the super mills, and thus higher demand for timber, soon followed.
The higher demand from the mills, coupled with the ability to truck wood in from wherever they wanted, and the onset of the pine beetle.....is why you see concentrations of logging like in your google earth images.

[Darksith]

Roads that are "active" push deer off of them. Its science based, studied fact. So if deer avoid a road by say 250m on each side, and don't feel comfortable within that space, how many "safe spaces" are left for deer? This is why roads need to be decativated, even if its a main FSR and its not going to be used by industry, then it needs to be deact'd. This changes migration routes, daily habits and its been proven via radio collaring. So yes roads that are not in use by industry need to be decommissioned if we truly care about habitat and healthy populations. You want access, you get it via active roads, your wants do not trump wildlife health. You don't need to be able to drive into every valley of this province. Its also bogus and the biologists don't agree with just hunters getting ATV restrictions, they wanted a complete restriction for everyone, but the politicians wouldn't allow it so they picked on the "quietest" group out there...us hunters.

Its not the government that is dictating a lot of the so called management, its industry and capitalism. The biologists a lot of the time get hand tied, muzzled and gagged because wildlife is trumped by industry. We need to write letters to the politicians. Thats the only way we will win. The politician wants to get re elected, if they get 100 letters from angry hunters, that represents 1000 or 10,000 angry hunters and that puts fear into them. We need to show up at their offices and request meetings. That really tells them that my voters are angry. We need to do this more than the anti hunters, thats the only way we will win. 47 letters came in about the "predator hunt contests", do you think the politicians are just shrugging that off as 47 unhappy people or do you think they feel that as pressure and if they want to get that public paycheck after the next election they better pay attention to those 47 letters...think about it...
Draft a letter, share it here, copy and paste it and send it to your MLA...we need to unite on this tactic and actually do it rather than run 18 pages on a thread complaining and arguing with each other

[REMINGTON JIM]

A very good first step would be to ban raw log exports.....last numbers I saw were 8-9 million cubic meters a year of raw logs heading off shore. Thats a lot of habitat and a lot of roads with no jobs coming from it beyond the logging jobs. And we've been exporting at these levels for a long time now.

This should NEVER have Being DONE ! Remember all those HUGH Sitka Spruce tress Sold to Japan a bunch of Years Back ! RJ