Why is the WKBGTA proposing a bag limit of 1 elk or 1 moose not both in BC

[Fisher-Dude]

This province still needs to kill some wolves and bears off.

Where moose and elk and 'bou are struggling, yup.

Waste of time and money and effort for deer though.

[antlerking]

Wolves were not part of the deer studies probably because of public sentiment biggest factor for fawn mortality was weather,remember last years recorded snow fall! Did you notice the lack of yearling bucks (spikes and 2 points) I sure did where I normally see 2 or 3 young bucks a day I seen probably 10 all season long! That's out of 60 days in the field. All the forest fires this summer have created more habitat in 2 months then any government or group could have created in 10 years. Do we honestly want the 5 day gun seasons they have in a lot of the states. What do you think the government will do with more revenue from hunters,set up more safe injection sites for bucks (parks) and keep hunters out! Best we can do is hope for mild weather,shoot every predator you can and practice personal conversation . The numbers will return seen it before

[bownut]

Some people tip their hand and admit they want to see 170 class mulies behind every tree, so they want to restrict other hunters to get what they want.

Others want to see healthy, productive deer herds that provide opportunity for all hunters with all motivations.

Quickest way to poor productivity and shrinking deer herds is to drive up a surplus of mature bucks. Herd shrinks, fawn recruitment tanks.

But I guess when that was discussed, the guys who want more regulations were plugging their ears. Thankfully, our biologists want to manage our deer to provide healthy, growing populations with excellent fawn recruitment and representation from all age classes in that population.

And yet another great diversion.
Mature Deer combined with Great numbers would please all hunters. Tell me how many guys would pass on a mature buck if one was standing next to a two point? Not One.

Being that you know so much about the breeding cycle, Tell me this, what age class of deer is the most efficient at breeding? If breeding is done early the recruitment goes up.
Grab yourself a copy of Mule Deer Quest by Walt Prothero and learn a little more about things.

You went to a one Mule Deer Strategy meeting and you act like the topics in the presentation haven't been herd before. If you want to view the topics discussed about Doe and fawn study practices
go and youtube and watch "Kentucky Deer Study" and you can see how the process works.

If you don't think I was listening then carry on with your little Diversionary Ways.

It is the week definition of "Sustainable Harvest" that we are lead to believe, that is the root of many evils.

[slowjo]

Last 10 years of mule deer harvest in region 8 (2007-2016):


3155
3202
2759
3601
2887
2975
3233
3163
3614
3420


Trend? Flat. Indicator: population is stable.

Notes: heavily roaded, heavily hunted, season unchanged, still produces the same number of deer.

If current seasons were causing a decrease in populations, then trend would be down over a decade of hunting as the region would be "shot off."

Further evidence: days per kill is statistically flat. Indicator: same number of deer harvested by the same hunter effort, populations are stable.


21
23
26
22
25
26
29
27
23
29

where do we find these stats for region 4?

[bownut]

where do we find these stats for region 4?

When they turn up, have a close look at the changes in 10 years.

[Looking_4_Jerky]

1) Totally agree. I shared a small to med size moose with a buddy this year and I have loin steaks, had tenderloins, euro wieners, pepperoni, jerky, farmers sausage, and ground coming out my wazoo. Me or someone in my family is eating meat almost every night and I couldn't get through a full animal of either species in a year. With densities of both moose and elk declining in most areas of the province, I have no problem with being limited to one of either species, not both.

2) Disagree. Like a few have eluded to, when they can actually ascertain that the LEH system works like it's supposed to, I'll have a tiny bit more faith, but even then, there are better (more fair) models.

3) Agree but disagree. I agree that some rut mule deer would gag a maggot and aren't fit to feed your ex-wife, but the severity seems to vary from none to heavy and everywhere in between. Over and above that, let the individual decide as they may not mind. I don't hunt Nov MD because I hate stinky deer. Most people I know don't seem to mind, so let them fill their boots. It's a hokey proposition that won't accomplish f/a anyway.

[backcountry99]

Some people tip their hand and admit they want to see 170 class mulies behind every tree, so they want to restrict other hunters to get what they want.

Others want to see healthy, productive deer herds that provide opportunity for all hunters with all motivations.

Quickest way to poor productivity and shrinking deer herds is to drive up a surplus of mature bucks. Herd shrinks, fawn recruitment tanks.

But I guess when that was discussed, the guys who want more regulations were plugging their ears. Thankfully, our biologists want to manage our deer to provide healthy, growing populations with excellent fawn recruitment and representation from all age classes in that population.

I dont recall anyone saying there goal was to produce 170 class muledeer behind every tree. You clearly have not hunted the west kootenays, this group has watched muledeer numbers slowly decline over the past 30 years to the point we are at now were they are almost non-existant. Be it there methods right or wrong of how to produce more muledeer its hard to believe that the biologists really know what they r doing when they have managed animal numbers in the wk to this all time low.

[bownut]

I dont recall anyone saying there goal was to produce 170 class muledeer behind every tree. You clearly have not hunted the west kootenays, this group has watched muledeer numbers slowly decline over the past 30 years to the point we are at now were they are almost non-existant. Be it there methods right or wrong of how to produce more muledeer its hard to believe that the biologists really know what they r doing when they have managed animal numbers in the wk to this all time low.

Yes and that's where thee problems is, it like a hand full of water it will either drip through or evaporate off.
Val Geist believes that Mule Deer are a evolutionary failure and feels they are on their way out, all we are doing is speeding up the process.
Funding for science, Habitat loss, Access,Hunting and Rec. Pressure, Predators, and so on. The list is endless.

Healthy game populations should be front and center, mature age class is a sign of a healthy population as well as the overall numbers. It shows us that
the game has reached full cycle. Too bad that some people feel that when I bring up "Mature Bucks" I get called a Trophy Hunter. I would like to think of myself as a "Selective Hunter"
who enjoys to see more game on the mountains rather that shoot the first legal deer.

The lack of rut activity and doe counts along with the shed pick up has left me to believe that the decline is felt all over the Province. We can only hope that their will be a turn in the trend soon.

I do miss my stinky Mule deer hanging in the shop aging into a quality steak on the BQ.

[Fisher-Dude]

I dont recall anyone saying there goal was to produce 170 class muledeer behind every tree. You clearly have not hunted the west kootenays, this group has watched muledeer numbers slowly decline over the past 30 years to the point we are at now were they are almost non-existant. Be it there methods right or wrong of how to produce more muledeer its hard to believe that the biologists really know what they r doing when they have managed animal numbers in the wk to this all time low.

Actually I have hunted the WK.

Exactly 30 years ago, the WK mule deer season was any buck from Sep 10 to Nov 15. Hunting was good, populations were good. Harvest ranged from 2800 to 4700 deer per year, averaged about 3600. Hunters were in the 10,000 to 12,000 range.

Now it is Sep 10 to Nov 10 4 point only. Harvest averages 700 deer. Hunters number about 5700. And the mule deer are in decline in the region, despite cutting harvest to 20% of its former level and having half the hunters stay home and watch football.

Question: will more hunting regulations reverse the decline? Looks like it hasn't worked to do anything except lull people into thinking they are doing something positive. Clearly, that isn't working and people need to shift focus away from hunting regulations to something that will result in more mule deer.

Only one thing will result in more mule deer in the WK. Habitat.

The biologists? They've been under constant pressure to manage hunters with more hunting regulations, while they should have been freed up from dealing with screaming people and allowed to manage mule deer habitat. What a thankless job.

[Bugle M In]

Actually I have hunted the WK.

Exactly 30 years ago, the WK mule deer season was any buck from Sep 10 to Nov 15. Hunting was good, populations were good. Harvest ranged from 2800 to 4700 deer per year, averaged about 3600. Hunters were in the 10,000 to 12,000 range.

Now it is Sep 10 to Nov 10 4 point only. Harvest averages 700 deer. Hunters number about 5700. And the mule deer are in decline in the region, despite cutting harvest to 20% of its former level and having half the hunters stay home and watch football.

Question: will more hunting regulations reverse the decline? Looks like it hasn't worked to do anything except lull people into thinking they are doing something positive. Clearly, that isn't working and people need to shift focus away from hunting regulations to something that will result in more mule deer.

Only one thing will result in more mule deer in the WK. Habitat.

The biologists? They've been under constant pressure to manage hunters with more hunting regulations, while they should have been freed up from dealing with screaming people and allowed to manage mule deer habitat. What a thankless job.

well said...bang on...IMO.