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Thread: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

  1. #91
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    738

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    Great thread to stimulate the conversation. I am not one to recommend shooting on age alone, unless you have a fair buffer - say you think the ram is 10 or eleven. That's just me though.

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    76

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by RJHunter View Post
    I don't see anywhere in the regs that states a ram has to have 8 visible true annuli to be legally considered 8 years old. I have always considered "evidenced by" to mean that the location and pattern of the visible annuli can be evidence for what was there before the horns were broomed.

    I am no expert by any means but it seems experts do consider missing annuli when aging sheep. Slide 10 with presenter comment.
    https://wildsheepsociety.com/wp-cont...rew-Walker.pdf

    This is a good eye opener though.
    Thank you for linking to the presentation made by the same region 6 biologist who said the ram isn't legal, where he DOES give credit for missing annuli in a broomed ram when aging. This infuriating inconsistency is what I was referring to in my post #60.

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    490

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    All of the support for the boneheads at MFLNRO, or whatever their new title is (perhaps MFLNRO2 to keep up with all the fluff) is just splitting hairs!

    What other species in B.C. is "managed", and I use that term very loosely, on the basis that you can hunt only males and they need to be 8 years old (defined by a bureaucrat that has likely never hunted sheep) or with a horn tip that rises above the bridge of the nose?? This is all about creating "trophies" that bring in $50,000.00 U.S. a pop. The charges laid against this kid are an embarrassment to the gatekeepers at many levels.

    And, therein lies the rub with Mr. Expert Witness who just wishes to be so self important. The sheep guides will lay it on heavy when millions of dollars of broomed rams can no longer be legally taken in any given 6 to 8-week period of each year. The BCWF won't say a peep of course. Too concerned about looking bad to their perceived strength.

    C'mon now!! If it wasn't for the G.O.'s influence we would no longer be hunting sheep at all. Calling any species a "trophy" is a huge mistake however, as we have learned from the cancellation of grizzly bear hunting. Perhaps that will change over time.

    So let's learn one lesson from this event … and realize what the real threat is. It is not the DIY resident hunters, the guided hunters or the F.N.'s. It is a bureaucracy (public service by definition) that is out of control, turning each group against one another … while the hawks in the anti-use movement take it all in and use it to stop all hunting.

    Time to get on the same page!

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,226

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by 40incher View Post
    All of the support for the boneheads at MFLNRO, or whatever their new title is (perhaps MFLNRO2 to keep up with all the fluff) is just splitting hairs!

    What other species in B.C. is "managed", and I use that term very loosely, on the basis that you can hunt only males and they need to be 8 years old (defined by a bureaucrat that has likely never hunted sheep) or with a horn tip that rises above the bridge of the nose?? This is all about creating "trophies" that bring in $50,000.00 U.S. a pop. The charges laid against this kid are an embarrassment to the gatekeepers at many levels.

    And, therein lies the rub with Mr. Expert Witness who just wishes to be so self important. The sheep guides will lay it on heavy when millions of dollars of broomed rams can no longer be legally taken in any given 6 to 8-week period of each year. The BCWF won't say a peep of course. Too concerned about looking bad to their perceived strength.

    C'mon now!! If it wasn't for the G.O.'s influence we would no longer be hunting sheep at all. Calling any species a "trophy" is a huge mistake however, as we have learned from the cancellation of grizzly bear hunting. Perhaps that will change over time.

    So let's learn one lesson from this event … and realize what the real threat is. It is not the DIY resident hunters, the guided hunters or the F.N.'s. It is a bureaucracy (public service by definition) that is out of control, turning each group against one another … while the hawks in the anti-use movement take it all in and use it to stop all hunting.

    Time to get on the same page!
    Perfect. The bureaucracy is most definitely out of control - top to bottom.

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    14,707

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    Well SAID 40incher ! RJ

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    N. Okanagan
    Posts
    14,182

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    40, you touched on several issues in one post, not going to quote it and give it traction

    You probably already know why the regs select for a sustainable hunt, why try to muddy up that one ?
    Never say whoa in the middle of a mud hole

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    North Van - North Rockies
    Posts
    118

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by boxhitch View Post
    40, you touched on several issues in one post, not going to quote it and give it traction

    You probably already know why the regs select for a sustainable hunt, why try to muddy up that one ?
    Yeah, lost me on that one. 8yr is a sustainable management tool to ensure that there's a viable breeding population of mature rams. Full curl ruling I don't care as much for. There are some who are happy to pop a tight 6yr or 7yr over the nose whenever they see them, which is not a sustainable practice.

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    8,515

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by NMO View Post
    Yeah, lost me on that one. 8yr is a sustainable management tool to ensure that there's a viable breeding population of mature rams. Full curl ruling I don't care as much for. There are some who are happy to pop a tight 6yr or 7yr over the nose whenever they see them, which is not a sustainable practice.
    Your point is valid about full curl 6-7 year olds.
    I think the only reason for the "full curl" id s there is a better chance for the average sheep hunter or
    newb to get that right over aging.

    Sheep are an oddity really compared to other species when hunting.
    Far harder to tell if its legal either way at times.
    Even Goats for many are hard to define between gender.

    Different than just counting points.
    I just think this is one of those "borderline" situations that should have been let go, imo.
    There are many other instances where the hunters were totally out to lunch and should be fined etc.

    Sure does make one think twice about hunting sheep.
    Also makes me wonder how many sheep might get left to rot because a hunter has 2nd doubts suddenly
    after they inspect it hard and wondering if the Inspector will see it as they did?
    Just like in this OP.

    I would like to see much stiffer penalties for poachers and people who just don't care, and there is more
    than enough of them.
    (Even know of an outfitter that kept shooting nannies just to make money until they got stopped)
    But then there are these cases that are on the borderline.
    Just glad it wasn't me and I am getting too old to do that hunt anymore.

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    kelowna
    Posts
    153

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    Geist is the premier expert in the world.
    INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY
    Sheep are not that tough. Grizzlies are. Grizzlies eat what sheep eat, plus they eat sheep

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    490

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by boxhitch View Post
    40, you touched on several issues in one post, not going to quote it and give it traction

    You probably already know why the regs select for a sustainable hunt, why try to muddy up that one ?

    Not trying to muddy anything … if anything let's have some clarity.

    Do you think a guided rich dude would have had that ram taken away? That's not a rhetorical question BTW! … but let's pick on a young resident hunter to make a bureaucratic point.

    And just another quick question … what has sustainability got to do with it? You must be familiar with the "Skeena Model", which has allowed for ridiculously high quotas in Region 6 that have nothing to do with sustainability.

    To be clear … the ram is legal and was a good one to take. Problem is, the bureaucrats want to further their personal agenda with least risk.

    I hope the family of the young man pursues an appeal of this B.S.

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