Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?

[Wild one]

I would Not make such a bold assessment.

Lots of those impenetrable MD strongholds on the prairie no longer exist, nothing but WT now.

Habitat change appears to be the driver that tips the advantage to WT.

In my short time here I've seen MD dominated landscapes with pockets of WT completely flip where MD are now few to non-existent.
What does this say for the long term?

Maybe Geist is right....

In my time living/visiting in Alberta I seen examples of both species switching which was dominant in Alberta. When seen to switch to MD it has always been the edge of the foothills or prairie

Habitat changes is a huge factor

[Bugle M In]

In my time living/visiting in Alberta I seen examples of both species switching which was dominant in Alberta. When seen to switch to MD it has always been the edge of the foothills or prairie

Habitat changes is a huge factor

I definetly agree with this.
You will never see a WT in Subalpine in the Rockies like MD.
But, if you put some cutblocks close to this height, then, you can get WT close.
It depends on the terrain for sure, and some areas they can share or partially share or not at all.
BUT, one area they all like to share come Winter Time is the same (that is the one to really think about)

[horshur]

I get the region 3 regulations and the rational. Support them on theory but if other issues are not addressed regarding mule deer then what is the point?

[bownut]

Like I said, their methods at least give a good idea of general trends......so do you guys want them to shut down the seasons until we get funding to do complete accounts??? May be waiting a while....a short doe season for whitetails has time and time again proven to be beneficial for the overall population...educate yourselves, there is multiple studies out there....oh right, whitetails in BC are different ok....

A Short Doe Season! Have you done the math? Region 8 Antlerless Oct.10-31+ Youth Nov.1-30 Archery Dec1.-20 That's what you call a sustainable number?

Talk to any Bios and they will all tell you that the quickest way to drop a deer population is through a Antlerless Season. Do you want to pull up that information for you?

[Wild one]

I definetly agree with this.
You will never see a WT in Subalpine in the Rockies like MD.
But, if you put some cutblocks close to this height, then, you can get WT close.
It depends on the terrain for sure, and some areas they can share or partially share or not at all.
BUT, one area they all like to share come Winter Time is the same (that is the one to really think about)

An over abundance of any form of ungulates on wintering grounds is an issue. This is the only valid concern brought up that I can see a positive lowering WT numbers. If this is an issue it makes sense to lower the numbers on the ungulate species that rebounds fastest and that is WT

But this is not the purpose for BCs management plan. The goal is to lower WT (secondary prey)numbers to limit cougar predation on MD( primary prey)

Managment must not see a competition in wintering grounds because they see no issue there

[Bugle M In]

An over abundance of any form of ungulates on wintering grounds is an issue. This is the only valid concern brought up that I can see a positive lowering WT numbers. If this is an issue it makes sense to lower the numbers on the ungulate species that rebounds fastest and that is WT

But this is not the purpose for BCs management plan. The goal is to lower WT (secondary prey)numbers to limit cougar predation on MD( primary prey)

Managment must not see a competition in wintering grounds because they see no issue there

And that is probably why there are some big issues on the way.
Trust me, even the local FN band did everything to block Forestry from coming in to log the winter grounds, cause there is nothing left above to cut.
I met an old time Kamloops MD Bio, and all I can tell you is, he was pissed off with the ministry.
I think he started helping out in the States, because they wanted help and had money.
Again, I think what we are seeing is the ministry just managing thru hunting regs.
Which would have been fine, had they also been managing thru spending money on habitat and not closing a blind eye to Preds (talk about a blind eye, and Gbear hunting gone)

[Bugle M In]

I get the region 3 regulations and the rational. Support them on theory but if other issues are not addressed regarding mule deer then what is the point?

I agree with you when you say "whats the point if they don't correct the other stuff"
Regulate away I suppose, but nothing is going to change,
Unless those fire keep happening, which I can't see those from being stopped, so, that will happen.
And if Pro66 can get something off the ground with the Dogs, then maybe we can stop wasting time on the keyboard.

[dana]

One interesting note for Region 3 is there had never ever been an LEH antlerless whitetail season. Why??? If you wanted to control numbers in a more manageable way, LEH should have been the first step don't you think? But, instead we went straight into a GOS with a baglimit of 2. And the timing was right when the wolf epidemic was at it's peak in Northern Region 3. At the time, i welcomed the hunt. I was mislead to believe it would help mule deer. It is obvious now, it has not helped one bit. All it has done is put local whitetail herds in peril due to heavy mortality from both 4 legged predators or 2 legged predators. One could actually argue that with a lower whitetail food source, wolves will just target more mule deer.

[dana]

I wonder how many hunters take a moment to make sure the doe they have their sights on doesn't have a fawn close by. More than once I have let a doe pass, as after watching it for a couple of minutes, it's fawn walks out.

Walksalot, This is a very valid point given a very high wolf population. In a low predator population, FD is right, there is a very reasonable chance the fawn will hook up with other does and be just fine. Totally not the case in a wolf infested zone. The fawn will be confused and an easy target for the dogs. I personally saw this one winter in the Tum Tum. Wolves killed a whitetail doe one night. We found her just off the road on the ice of a frozen swamp. The next morning we found the freshly killed fawn lying in the middle of the road just above the swamp the doe was in.

[Bugle M In]

Everyone has to be careful when they have a Doe tag that's for sure.
As for Wolves and other Preds, I think no matter what we put into place for restrictions, it isn't going to help as much as taking care of those dogs.
Only real positive was some of those fires...IMO. (and I say that understanding some folks paid a hefty price for that).
But if the ministry would take care of those issue properly, I doubt we would see half the squabbling that we do on here.