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Thread: Draw with Back Tension

  1. #1
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    Draw with Back Tension

    I made this video to show how I use the back tension to draw my bow.


    Alex Li Custom Recurve 48" 62# @ 28", Osage-Bloodwood/Maple/Bamboo with Bocote Riser
    Alex Li Custom Recurve 48" 53# @ 28", Bocote/Bamboo with Water Buffalo Horn Covered Belly
    Blackwidow Recurve 56" 61# @ 28"

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  3. #2
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    Re: Draw with Back Tension

    I don't see any actual expansion, so I'm not sure how this demonstrates BT. Plus it seems like you aren't able to reach your correct DL either due to overbowing or excessive stack.
    Judging by the other video you posted I'd say it's a question of overbowing combined with incorrect technique.

    -Grant

  4. #3
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    Re: Draw with Back Tension

    Hey Grant , you are right to a very small point . As Bill posts this is his back tension drawing his hunting bow , it`s his style and you seem to read an awful lot into short videos that shows very little .
    I know Bill and appreaciate his enthusiasm (first 3-D) and for you to adapt such a judgemental post that lacks constructive advise is short sighted.
    Last edited by greybark; 06-05-2013 at 08:14 AM.
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  5. #4
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    Re: Draw with Back Tension

    Enthusiasm is great. Someone should take that enthusiasm and use it to teach him some decent form before he ingrains too many bad habits.
    What I see is a person who hasn't had any quality instruction, shooting a bow which isn't suitable for his draw length and strength.

    Back tension is a very subtle and misunderstood feeling during the shot. I think I've seen perhaps a handful of people who shoot traditional actually understand and use it correctly.

    Drawing with the back, and BT/expansion are two very different things. He is definitely attempting to use the back muscles to draw, but he isn't drawing far enough to actually use BT and expand.

    Someone should do him a favor and hand him a bow he can handle. Hint: it's not a 48" horsebow.

    -Grant

  6. #5
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    Re: Draw with Back Tension

    you dont use back tension to draw ... you use back muscles but not tension ...

    Backtension is a better decribed as Scapular motion to activate a release or relax hand aid to let an arrow fly

    Just saying tho
    A true Archery Nut

    Willing to help and answer archery related questions to the best of my ability ...all you gotta do is ask

  7. #6
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    Re: Draw with Back Tension

    I know Bill, too and have seen him shoot. He's a beginner but he is alot more traditional than you, Grant.
    Pluck yew, boys


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  8. #7
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    Re: Draw with Back Tension

    Thanks! I've worked very hard over the last 3 years to rebuild my shot from when I was "Trad", it's still not where I want to be but I can see light at the end of the tunnel.

    I am very proud to see how well one of the people I have coached did at the Hell Hole. He took second in longbow at his first event which is a great accomplishment and I think we will be seeing a lot more from him in the future. I just wish there was more quality instruction available for people wishing to shoot single strings.

    -Grant

  9. #8
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    Re: Draw with Back Tension

    Oh sh!t...am I in trouble?

    I used the term "back tension" because that's all they use on tradgang. "Draw with BT" is all they talk about. So I assume that this term is the same as "draw with back or back muscle".

    I think if I hold my bow with less tilting or straight, you probably will see more expansion. But I feel that type of form might not be practical for hunting. As a matter of fact, I don't lose any DL or feel overbowed. I snap shoot to gain more speed and feel more comfortable with better accuracy.

    Greybark and other trad guys have taught me a lot. I just feel that I couldn't spend enough time with them!
    Alex Li Custom Recurve 48" 62# @ 28", Osage-Bloodwood/Maple/Bamboo with Bocote Riser
    Alex Li Custom Recurve 48" 53# @ 28", Bocote/Bamboo with Water Buffalo Horn Covered Belly
    Blackwidow Recurve 56" 61# @ 28"

  10. #9
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    Re: Draw with Back Tension

    Quote Originally Posted by rollingrock View Post
    Oh sh!t...am I in trouble?

    I used the term "back tension" because that's all they use on tradgang. "Draw with BT" is all they talk about. So I assume that this term is the same as "draw with back or back muscle".

    I think if I hold my bow with less tilting or straight, you probably will see more expansion. But I feel that type of form might not be practical for hunting. As a matter of fact, I don't lose any DL or feel overbowed. I snap shoot to gain more speed and feel more comfortable with better accuracy.

    Greybark and other trad guys have taught me a lot. I just feel that I couldn't spend enough time with them!

    Personally I think you shoot fine ... even as a Guy that shoots with training wheels ... stick shooters never have "good textbook form" ... they find something that is repeatable and consistantly works for them.


    I dont know why the peeps on Trad gang talk about back tension ... because anyone that shoots a bow canted (like any trad shooter) cant really acheive true back tension and a relaxed draw arm due to stance and various other factors

    here are some great articles on Back tension and exactly what it is .... Happy Reading
    http://www.thearcher.com/coachCorner...neral&email=No
    http://mnarchery.org/try-it-with-back-tension.html
    http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/...erfectrelease/
    http://www.alansarchery.pwp.blueyond...que01Frame.htm

    an Article written By George Ryals (people may wanna read this as GRIV is the most successfull coach in North America at the moment)
    What really is back tension?
    By George Ryals

    Many shooters are mystified with the notion of “back tension.” For many shooters it is this mysterious feeling you get in your back when your shoulder blades are rotated, tucked, pulled, and squeezed into just the right contorted position that enables the elusive “perfect shot”. For others it requires a medical degree and a body chart to locate ambiguous muscle groups that must be flexed and pinched at just the right interval while poking at your release trigger. Ultimately, it is a confusing distraction that takes our mind off aiming, and aiming is the grand wizard of tasks that must be completed without distraction to complete the perfect shot.

    All kidding aside, “back tension” can be simplified as a dynamic tension that is set up at the beginning of the draw and it is continues through the release of the arrow.

    I feel that it is second only to aiming as the key fundamental part of shooting form that generates accuracy and consistency. Proper setup and use of this "tension" can help you shoot longer by relieving fatigue. It will make you a more stable shooter by relieving muscle tension in the arms and hands. Dynamic tension also reduces the amount of muscle groups involved in the shot. This will diminish muscle tremors that can cause sudden misses, quick shots, and general unsteadiness.

    What does it feel like?

    Try this exercise. Make a bow drawing motion (without a bow in your hands). For most people it is easier to isolate the back without the weight of the bow or the tension of the string. While making a drawing motion, make sure your hands, forearms, and shoulders are relaxed as they can be. Actually let your hands dangle loosely as you do this. Keep your back straight, head up and turned towards the target, and straighten your bow arm, but keep the elbow unlocked. As you reach full draw, you will be able to feel your back working to hold full draw. Keep your elbow high. The lower your elbow gets, the greater your chances become for your back transferring the pressure to your arms and hands. Loss of tension is usually unrecoverable without letting down and restarting the shot. Leaning back at full draw is also another common cause of tension loss. I had this problem and it is hard to fix because you can’t feel it. Stick a bow square or an arrow in your waistband and let it go down into your pant leg next to your leg. Usually an arrow works best because of its length. It will remind you to stay straight as it stops you from leaning as you draw. This feels weird, but it does help.

    This is the critical juncture in the whole technique. If your hands and arms take over, you will increase your shot time and will lose stability. The longer you stay with the shot the more unstable you will become, almost guaranteeing a miss. You can test this feel just as you did above by going through the same motions except make your fists super tight. You will be able to feel a diminished amount of tension in your back and if you keep your hands balled tight enough, you can feel the shaking and muscle tremors caused by this loss of tension.

    How do you shoot a bow with well placed tension?

    Dynamic tension is a simple push pull technique. You need to feel a balance between the push and the pull. Imagine drawing a bungee cord and you are stretching it between your bow arm and your drawing hand. Dynamic tension or the push pull effect stretches the cord. Most pro shooters set up this dynamic tension when they raise the bow to the target. This stages the proper muscle groups. The muscles that you use to draw the bow are the very same muscles that you use to aim the bow, and the back muscles will give you the most stability. I feel that it is virtually impossible to reach your full potential as a shooter unless you draw the in this manner because it is extremely difficult to draw the bow with one muscle group and then, at full draw, switch to the proper muscle group. If you draw it with arm and hand power, you are doomed to aim it with arm power, which is incredibly unstable. As you reach full draw you should pull the bow into the stops and continue to apply mild pressure as you align your peep with the scope and the dot with the X. Once everything is centered and anchored in the center of the target, You will then commit to the shot and the release opens in time.

    How do you shoot a release while using Dynamic Tension?


    We have reached full draw and aligned the whole shooting match up with the X. Now what do you do? Well the release better go off pretty soon or you will pull the wheels off of the bow. right? With a trigger style release, usually you will need a slightly stiffer trigger than you are used to. This will let you build strong tension with you r finger on the trigger without risk of pre-fires. I allow my wrist muscles and the tendons in the back of my hand to slightly relax as I pull. This causes my hand to yield on the release. There is no real perceivable movement, but it is just enough to change the pressure on the trigger, and the shot is released. A rotational style release works in the same manner. When you commit to the shot and your tension builds allow your hand to soften or yield on the release and that is just enough to change the attitude of the release handle to make it fire.

    How do you know if it is right?

    This is where the mystery is revealed. If your elbow is above the plane of your shoulder, your are pushing and pulling, and there is no undue tension in your hands or arms, you have to be doing it right. Your bow will feel easier to hold, and your sight will hold tighter on the dot. If you feel like you are working too hard you are probably not doing it right. You may be over pulling. If your shot will not go off, you have lost tension. Let down and reset.

    Do not over complicate the feel just push and pull. Practice this on a blank bale until you get it down. Then practice it on a target at close distances until you can forget about it and allow it to naturally happen. Then move to your normal distances and go for it.

    If you need a visual aid go to www.archeryhistory.com and click on “archers” at the top of the page is a video of Terry Ragsdale and Eric Hall in a shoot off in Australia 1985. Terry, in my opinion, is the model by which all form should be judged. In the video, he exhibits flawless form and perfect shot execution. Grab the 20meg file. It will take a while, but it is worth it.

    George Ryals IV
    A true Archery Nut

    Willing to help and answer archery related questions to the best of my ability ...all you gotta do is ask

  11. #10
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    Re: Draw with Back Tension

    Granted .. GRIVs articles are focused to the compound shooters .... I feel this thread is evolving so lets make it about BT in general

    Back-tension explained Except from Stan manual by George Ryals

    The word back tension is used often when describing shot execution. Many shooters are mystified with the notion of “back tension.” For some it is this mysterious feeling you get in your back when your shoulder blades are rotated, tucked, pulled, and squeezed into just the right contorted position that enables the elusive “perfect shot”. It often feels like it requires a medical degree and a body chart to locate ambiguous muscle groups that must be flexed and pinched at just the right interval while poking at your release trigger. Ultimately, it is a confusing distraction that takes our mind off aiming, and aiming is the most important task that must be completed without distraction to complete the perfect shot. Without perfect aim, perfect form alone will not produce perfect shooting.

    “Back tension” can be simplified to a basic feel. We refer to it as dynamic tension. Dynamic Tension is set up at the beginning of the draw and it is continues through the release of the arrow. We feel that it is second only to aiming as the key fundamental part of shooting form that generates accuracy and consistency. The feel that you get with Dynamic tension is the constant rearward pressure against the bow while you aim.

    What is Dynamic Tension?

    Dynamic Tension is a simple technique. You need to feel a balance between the solid bow arm and the pulling pressure of the release hand. The feeling should be like stretching a band between your bow hand and your release hand. This stretch increases as you commit to the shot. Most pro shooters set up their dynamic tension when they raise the bow to the target. This stages the proper muscle groups. The muscles that you use to draw the bow are the very same muscles that you use to aim the bow, and the back muscles will give you the most stability. As you reach full draw you should pull the bow into the stops and continue to apply mild pressure as you align your peep with the scope and the dot with the X. Once everything is centered and anchored in the center of the target, you will then commit to the shot, slightly increase the tension against the bow, and begin relaxing the hand through the shot. (we will explain relaxing through the shot a little later)

    Proper setup and use of this tension can help you shoot longer by relieving fatigue. It will make you a more stable shooter by relieving muscle tension in the arms and hands. Dynamic tension also reduces the amount of muscle groups involved in the shot. This will diminish muscle tremors that can cause sudden misses, quick shots, and general unsteadiness.

    Activating the release by relaxing through the shot

    Whether you are using a triggerless Stan or one of our models that are trigger activated, the technique is the same with only minor adjustments. The art of activating the release is pretty basic. Essentially what should happen is as you pull against the bow and build dynamic tension between you and the bow, you will allow your index and middle finger to yield or soften against your pulling pressure. If you are shooting a Triggerless Stan, that yield of pressure causes the release to rotate just enough to cause it to fire giving you a complete surprise release. If you are shooting a Thumb button or an Eagle release, (which triggers with the middle finger) you will start with a heavier than normal trigger tension. Wrap your thumb or finger over the trigger and apply a tiny amount of pressure to it. As you pull and allow your index finger to yield to the pressure, the tension transfers to the button or trigger. This slight transfer of pressure as you relax your hand through the shot will cause a nice smooth surprise release.

    Ultimately you are striving for a surprise release. You do not want to be concerned when it is going to fire. A perfect shot would seem something like this:
    You draw the bow and squeeze into the stops. You align the peep and scope and bring the target into view. You will give it a half a beat to begin its normal motion in the center of the target (depending on experience this will be a little wobbly or very steady. Practice and conditioning will improve your hold over time.) Your sight is as steady as it ever gets and you commit to the shot. Allow your Dynamic tension to build on your release fingers through pulling into the stops. The tip of your elbow is in perfect line with the dot in your scope and it is pulling straight away. To activate the shot your index finger softens on the release and allows the handle to pivot slightly (there is very little perceivable motion here, but you can feel it) and POOF! The shot is released. You hold the form for about 3 beats for follow through and you are ready to reset. You have just shot a perfect arrow.

    If your release fires too fast, you can adjust it to make it a little slower. If you feel that you have to relax too much and there is too much motion in the release body, adjust the release according to each models instructions to tweak the shot speed.

    Transferring the feel to your bow

    As you get used to the feel of dynamic tension and you get used to yielding through the release to activate the shot, your exercise with the shooting loop will be important. It will help you memorize the feel and commit it to muscle memory. The more automatic these motions are before you go to the bow, the more consistent your shot sequence will be.

    Now that you are practiced up and you have established the feel, you will need to transfer that feel to the bow. An easy way to accomplish that is to shoot at a very close range without a target. When shooting the blank bale, it is important that you do not aim at anything, and resist the temptation to aim at your previous arrow. The point of this exercise is to acquaint yourself with the feel of shooting with your new release without the extra distraction of aiming.

    Remember, these exercises can be boring and it is tempting to skip forward and begin shooting as normal, but the more time you spent here developing a broad foundation through these exercises; the more accurate you will be in the long run. Spend enough time at this stage to get your shot execution as normal and comfortable as you can. Compare the feel to the shooting string to be sure that you have it down.

    Incorporating the feel into your full shot routine

    Now you have the feel down pat and it is as consistent as possible. The final step is to learn to aim and commit shot execution to muscle memory and allow it to happen naturally. For many shooters, sight movement and release problems are correlated, so learning to accept sight movement and continue with great shot execution is important. One of the best ways to accomplish this is to start off shooting targets at a very close range. Set up a target and shoot a few well aimed shots at 5 yards. Be mindful of the release and be sure that the feel and speed feels the same as it does with your string and the bow on the blank bale. Once you are comfortable with this, you can step back to ten yards. If you really want to get the full use of this exercise you can shoot full games on your favorite target to build confidence and get used to the feel of the automatic release while your sight moves in the center of the target. When you feel like you have it down and your shot execution feels great, you can step back to 15 yards and repeat. Slowly stepping back and gradually getting used to accepting sight movement will help your shot execution remain consistent. As you get better and become a stronger archer, your sight movement will bet smaller and smaller and your average will rise along with your improvements.
    A true Archery Nut

    Willing to help and answer archery related questions to the best of my ability ...all you gotta do is ask

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