Draw with Back Tension

[rollingrock]

Mikey, that's a good reading! I think the same theory could be applied to trad bow shooting, especially the part on releasing.

[greybark]

Oh sh!t...am I in trouble?

I used the term "back tension" because that's all they use on tradgang. "Draw with BT" is all they talk about. So I assume that this term is the same as "draw with back or back muscle".

I think if I hold my bow with less tilting or straight, you probably will see more expansion. But I feel that type of form might not be practical for hunting. As a matter of fact, I don't lose any DL or feel overbowed. I snap shoot to gain more speed and feel more comfortable with better accuracy.

Greybark and other trad guys have taught me a lot. I just feel that I couldn't spend enough time with them!

Hey Bill , it will take time but this snap shooting will lengthen out when you see results . There are quite a few variables when accessing how to help a new archer . Bill is right as to Trad style when hunting or 3-Ding . Grant is right on stance when open ground targets are involved .
Patience is the key and a rush to judgement on several points only screw things up as most archers can only learn one thing at a time .
Grant , pointing out your students 2nd place finish to substantuate your point proves nothing as the same can be claimed by others but I know how you feel . LOL
One more thing Grant , Bill`s enthusiasm for archery is of a greater deminsion then any of us have experienced . In several months he is involved in bow design , building , testing and his friend Alex and him are now trying to set up a Bow Factory . All this were we after several years of archery are still tied up with Back Tension . LOL
Cheers

[Grantmac]

Mikey, that's a good reading! I think the same theory could be applied to trad bow shooting, especially the part on releasing.

I'd go so far as to say it should be applied to shooting any bow well. The release should always be a passive event, the result of relaxing the correct muscles while building tension in others.

Honestly you are leaving at least 1-2" of draw-length on the table with your current draw. You aren't getting into alignment and because of that you are holding the weight of the bow using muscles instead of bone support. Snap shooting doesn't add any speed into the bow, certainly not like getting another 2" of DL does. What snap shooting does do is introduce a variable into your shot that you really cannot control, it's like trying to sight in your rifle with a pocket full of different shells; never gonna happen.

There comes a point where you will realize that you are shooting too much draw weight. It might not happen right now, but the sooner it does the better off you will be in the long run. You really need to be able to do more than just pull the string back; you need to dominate the bow. The shot should always be the same just fewer shots with greater weight.
I realize you build bows, I've also spent time building selfbows. It takes a really hard look into yourself to realize that the bow you just created is too much for your abilities to shoot. For me that happened with a 80@32 yew longbow. I can shoot it and arguably with what most people would call good form. But I just couldn't ever dominate it for any number of arrows.

This is how it's supposed to look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz4GPxPPqe8

Trad Gang is the last hold-out of that style of shooting, but I honestly believe it's the duty of anyone who considers themselves an archer to pursue a better method. Especially if you ever intend to loose an arrow at game. The shooting I see at 3D events makes me shudder and seriously think that accuracy testing should be required to get a license.

-Grant

[rollingrock]

Grant, good read! Even though I don't agree to some of your points....I've got to run out. Talk to you guys tomorrow!

[jessbennett]

I'd go so far as to say it should be applied to shooting any bow well. The release should always be a passive event, the result of relaxing the correct muscles while building tension in others.

Honestly you are leaving at least 1-2" of draw-length on the table with your current draw. You aren't getting into alignment and because of that you are holding the weight of the bow using muscles instead of bone support. Snap shooting doesn't add any speed into the bow, certainly not like getting another 2" of DL does. What snap shooting does do is introduce a variable into your shot that you really cannot control, it's like trying to sight in your rifle with a pocket full of different shells; never gonna happen.

There comes a point where you will realize that you are shooting too much draw weight. It might not happen right now, but the sooner it does the better off you will be in the long run. You really need to be able to do more than just pull the string back; you need to dominate the bow. The shot should always be the same just fewer shots with greater weight.
I realize you build bows, I've also spent time building selfbows. It takes a really hard look into yourself to realize that the bow you just created is too much for your abilities to shoot. For me that happened with a 80@32 yew longbow. I can shoot it and arguably with what most people would call good form. But I just couldn't ever dominate it for any number of arrows.

This is how it's supposed to look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz4GPxPPqe8

Trad Gang is the last hold-out of that style of shooting, but I honestly believe it's the duty of anyone who considers themselves an archer to pursue a better method. Especially if you ever intend to loose an arrow at game. The shooting I see at 3D events makes me shudder and seriously think that accuracy testing should be required to get a license.

-Grant

wow a true expert in your own mind............... its guys like you that cause alot of beginners to just walk away......

[greybark]

Hey Grant , your statement Quote " The shooting I see at 3-D events makes me shudder and seriously think that accuracy testing should be required to get a license " .
Most of the 3-D Archers that make you Shudder are purely recreational and do not hunt , some have just taken up archery , some archers are past and current Champions who don`t take things so serious and just enjoy the comradship and lastly the targets have to be placed as such to challenge all .
Your statement makes me shudder as to its Condescending and arrogance .
Cheers

[Islander]

Grant.....you are definitely in a class all of your own. At the shoot in Duncan did you not notice there was only one recurve category.....Recurve unaided. Should have been a traditional recurve class. So we had 20-30 traddies and one stringwalker.....what the hell did you expect? You brag about your friend/student longbow shooter that won second place in his first ever 3D.....was he stringwalking too?

[jessbennett]

i guess we should all understand that some people start out as perfect and experts i suppose..... of course there is somewhat of a "right" and "wrong" way to do things, but who are we to judge what works for someone? we all do different things that "work" for us. its all about repetition and forming a routine that works consistently for you. all i can say, is do what works for ya, enjoy it, and most of all, have fun. challenge yourself first instead of trying to challenge others. guaranteed the rest will come.

[Midland]

X2, This thread is amazing, all off a 4 second video

Hey Grant , your statement Quote " The shooting I see at 3-D events makes me shudder and seriously think that accuracy
testing should be required to get a license " .
Most of the 3-D Archers that make you Shudder are purely recreational and do not hunt , some have just taken up archery , some archers are past and current Champions who don`t take things so serious and just enjoy the comradship and lastly the targets have to be placed as such to challenge all .
Your statement makes me shudder as to its Condescending and arrogance .
Cheers

[Grantmac]

i guess we should all understand that some people start out as perfect and experts i suppose..... of course there is somewhat of a "right" and "wrong" way to do things, but who are we to judge what works for someone? we all do different things that "work" for us. its all about repetition and forming a routine that works consistently for you. all i can say, is do what works for ya, enjoy it, and most of all, have fun. challenge yourself first instead of trying to challenge others. guaranteed the rest will come.

Actually I spent years listening to the local "experts" and shooting very poorly, never even placed in a local 3D. It wasn't until I moved out of the area and to a place where I was able to shoot with nationally (USA) competitive shooters that I saw what you can really do with a stick and string. It took a year after that point just to rid myself of all the bad habits that I should never have developed in the first place. Habits I see very clearly in this video and I wouldn't want anyone to get stuck with as some never get over them.
I'm all for encouraging beginners, but along with that should be an emphasis on developing good shooting technique. I find it very disappointing that we seem to have a traditional bowhunting organization in BC who place no emphasis on shooting a bow accurately, at least judging by the membership's comments on here.

My friend shooting longbow was using 3-under and a high anchor, a really good technique. I've worked with him a little on form and he's spent a lot of time studying the best barebow shooters technique. Given that he's only been shooting for a few months it really goes to show you what a beginner is capable of if they take the right approach and have a little guidance.