Deer problems in Region 5

[Maxx]

3 point or smaller to protect the mature bucks. Being as the mature bucks do most of the breeding this makes the most sense to me. The needs of someone hunting for antlers should be pushed aside from the need for sustaining a healthy population of deer. my 2 cents anyway.

OK, I agree- But is the region 5 deer population healthy? I would say by the number of car/deer accidents is is at capacity?

As I said, if the meat hunters want meat, let them shoot a doe during an open Doe season! The governement would make more money on this than the LEH Doe, as the cost of a Mule deer tag is triple the LEH,

As for the mature bucks doing most of the breeding, just this weekend I saw 2 different 2 and 3 points "on the tail". Where were the bigger bucks?

[ellellbee]

Ministry wildlife biologists are concerned with maintaining population levels not how big the rack is. Maybe fewer smaller bucks as competition means that the big ones get through the rut in better shape with less running around and chasing them off. The better shape they come out of the rut, the better they survive the winter.

What you are forgetting is that not everyone hunts on the same level. There are beginner hunters, older hunters, only-get-out-for-one-weekend-a-year hunters.... etc. Just because an experienced hunter or a local hunter who can get out frequently may want to pass on the small to mid-sized bucks doesn't mean you need to close access to them for those that may need an easier prey.

[Maxx]

Who is saying anything about closing access? How is opening a doe season not increasing access, and opportunity for all hunters?

They can still shoot any buck in October, but 4 point only for November!

[Tank]

As I said, if the meat hunters want meat, let them shoot a doe during an open Doe season! The governement would make more money on this than the LEH Doe, as the cost of a Mule deer tag is triple the LEH,

I was under the impression that you still have to by the mule deer tag after you draw the leh?

[Fisher-Dude]

OK, so EVERYONE who wants can hunt a 2 point until Nov 20th in region 5, AND THEN shoot a 4 point from the 20th to the 30th, HOW does this relieve the pressure on the bigger bucks if "hunters are tagged out"?

Re-read my post, I didn't say it does, I said it's a question that needs answering. If the bios determine that there is an age class that needs help, then maybe they would consider reducing quota on that age class. Perhaps if a hunter takes a small buck, it precludes him from taking a 4 point in the late season. This would likely reduce much of the local harvest of smaller bucks, as many would opt to save their tag for the rut and a chance at a mature buck. Those who come in for a meat hunt once a year to 5 may opt for a smaller buck as they are less likely to return for the late season. Either way, the harvest would be reduced. It comes down to how much opportunity a hunter has to fill his tag as to the choices he makes. Again, I'm not promoting this as I don't have the scientific data to prove that recruitment of small bucks is what is needed to increase trophy bucks, I'm just suggesting it could be done if science says that's what is needed.

Some have said that hunters tend to shoot the buck standing beside the doe if they have an LEH. One solution to this is to preclude LEH holders from shooting a buck that year, or at least precluding a buck being taken during the period of the doe LEH. It was done with cow elk in the Kootenays in order to achieve a gender harvest target.

Overall, deer populations right across the province are as high as they've ever been. The cycle will likely only be broken by a killer winter. A GOS on antlerless deer is hard to control, so the better method appears to be flooding more LEHs out there. Ellellbee makes some good points about how not everyone has the same opportunity to hunt nor the same objectives. Maxx, I believe when she was speaking about "access", she was speaking more about "opportunity". Opportunity breeds participation, and that for sure is what this province needs now in all regions.

[Steeleco]

I agree the bucks need looking after, but I think like tmarscall, where in, more does need to be taken where the population seems too unbalanced. I am a "meat hunter" first but that doesn't mean I'll shoot the first thing showing more than ears.
Aside from the local hills, I get one week to travel north and enjoy your folks part of the world. There may be others that wait till the last chance but I have a feeling most of the late season pressure in home grown? I would gladly take a doe and be happy whatever the season.

That said there are good arguments against the taking the females in a species, Moose is one hotly debated example.

I trust (loosely) the biologists know what they're doing???

[Marc]

If you're looking for a trophy class animal try 7B, region 5 holds lots of deer and that's why the liberal season and any bucks. It's over populated.

They've got LEH doe tags for that region because there are to many deer for that area to sustain. Look at the number of deer that are being killed every year by traffic collisions alone. Not all hunters are Trophy hunters, actually the majority aren't. So the first decent size legal buck they are happy to harvest. That should leave the bigger bucks for those who want a trophy. I for one don't want to see hunting being restricted to produce trophy animals, I don't want to be portrayed as someone who is just out there looking for antlers. If the biologist thought that it was harming the population I'm sure they'd do something about it. If my memory serves me correctly this subject was already discussed and it became a heated debate.
The guides wanted region 5 to become a 4 points or better region and the majority was against it and it was voted down.


Marc.

[Will]

... the majority was against it and it was voted down.

As it should have been.

[BCrams]

I am going to try take out a Region 5 buck this week. I am not going to be picky either!

[Ride]

If there are deer problems in region 5 the seasons would change accordingly following what the biologists find data-wise after then hunting season and winter. When deer populations are affected adversely the regulations are always changed to reflect what is happening in said region.

Example. A number of years ago in region 4 the mule deer populations were adversely affected by a number of factors not limited to liberal harvests, predation, and harsh winters. The regulations were changed to 4 point or better for the majority of the season, and also shortened in order to assist the populations back to healthy numbers, and when their goals were reached the regulations again changed to what they are now.

Biologists manage for healthy, stable populations as their top priority, as they should. As i see it managing for antlers is next to impossible anyways, a) everyone would be out there popping only the biggest bucks because that is all they could and then it would get to the point of every 4 point in the world would be dead and no hunting opportunities would be left b) the only way you could possibly do it is to LIMIT the number of hunters for each region, each year. How would anyone here like to be told that only X number of hunters could go out in each region each year, while a huge healthy deer population was running around out there, getting closer and closer to carrying capacity. The worst part of that would be that the population would actually nose dive because the land could not support the number of animals on it. Starvartion and other such things would occur and that is never good. Oh and biologists in BC are not managing for trophies anyways.

Not trying to heat things up here, just hoping for some good constructive conversation. And everytime i am in region five the population, to me at least, seems quite healthy.