Deer problems in Region 5

[Maxx]

Here is my rant, and seeing as this topic came up on another recent post, the timing is probably good to stir up discusion.

Having hunted Region 5 numerous times in the past few years, and having the opportunity to speak with many locals about the decline of the Trophy quality of deer in the area along the Fraser, I am inclinded to say that the "shoot any buck until Nov. 20" is officially the most ignorant regulation going,

-Why would these young bucks not be protected, so that they can grow to be big bucks? They have the genes for it, but with the current rules, that are being slaughtered for no good reason,

- If the "meat" hunters want to say that this increases their chance for a deer, why not open a doe season for 10 days in all of region 5 from Oct. 27-Nov 5. If they are indeed "meat" hunters, will they not be happy with shooting a doe?

- The any buck Season should close Nov 5 as well. Also, the bag limit should be 2 mule deer, one of each sex- with the current 2 buck rule- how do they stand a chance?



What is the reason for this foolish regulation? Just this year alone, our group could have tagged 6 3 point or smaller bucks!



Bottom line, the quality of big bucks in region 5 is going down fast, with no end to the down turn in sight!


THOUGHTS!

[Fisher-Dude]

I want a link to a scientific study about whether or not recruitment of young bucks is an effective management tool for trophy class deer. So far, no one can provide it.

The questions are: does shooting more small bucks take the pressure off the big bucks, as hunters tag out sooner and therefore don't pursue bigger bucks? Or does the supply of trophy bucks need a lot of recruitment of smaller bucks?

Picking an arbitrary date of Nov 5 for closing any buck without the science to back that date up doesn't seem right. The biologists have the harvest and age stratification statistics to back up their chosen seasons, so I believe they have made their choices based on science, not opinion.

Speaking to locals about the apparent decline of trophy bucks is even less scientific...you can bet the opinion about the supply of bucks from the locals is tainted by whether they want to encourage a non-local to hunt "their" deer or not. Bullshit runs deep amongst the locals in any area! I know it's alive and well where I hunt!

[Gun Dog]

I think the "any buck" season draws more hunters which pushs the big bucks elsewhere. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean they're not there.

[dougan]

Four point or better is the only place to hunt for me. At least you have the chance to look at bucks every day and the fact is these bucks grow up not being shot at and wene you see one their not as skiddish as a four point that has been dodging lead year after year and the meat hunters out their get a deer with an extra 50+pounds on it.thats just my take on it and im sure some will not agree but so be it.

[Deerwhacker]

3 point or smaller to protect the mature bucks. Being as the mature bucks do most of the breeding this makes the most sense to me. The needs of someone hunting for antlers should be pushed aside from the need for sustaining a healthy population of deer. my 2 cents anyway.

[jessbennett]

i dont know where you are hunting, but this is one of the best years ive seen in along time for bucks big or small.

[tmarschall]

Not sure if this will help any, but let me tell you about a program that is a few years old that they have tried down here in a few counties of Texas. These counties had very heavy hunting pressure. Like you were saying, quality bucks were hard to come by, not to mention the buck/doe ratio was way out of proportion. They implemented a restriction that a buck had to have at least a 13 inch spread to be legal, or one antler had to have no more than one point(including brow tine which you don't normally count). They had diagrams in the regulations which showed that the antlers should reach to the outside of the ears to be legal, basically a rule of thumb for judging antler spread. These restrictions allowed for the culling of single point spikes and prevented the killing of younger bucks. There were some other details to the restrictions but these were the main ones. As I remember, there was no shortening of the hunting season with these restrictions. There was lots of skepticism at first, but now harvests have increased and more counties are signing up for the same restrictions. I would imagine the Texas Parks and Wildlife department would be glad to share information on the project if anyone is interested.

I posted about this project earlier this year or maybe last year giving numbers on the harvest data... it was a significcant increase. Maybe I can find it and post again... Tom

[jessbennett]

so instead of a rangefinding scope we need one with a rack spread indiator....hehehe just kidden around.......

[Timbow]

Well for all the guys that would want to manage for trophy class bucks. Start with yourself and restrain from shooting smaller class bucks. I hear a lot of guys who say that the deer are just not there and then on the same breath say, "oh I shot a two point". Come on, practice what you preach! Conservation starts from within ourselves. This thread would have been a great conservation thread only to have started and ended in the same thread.

I hunted the Empire Valley this last October only to find 7 camps of "non-locals" including myself, and all the guys we talked to all said the same thing about a lack of trophy class bucks. Yet we counted 9 bucks hanging in their camps ranging from spike to one small three point.

I saw many bucks and pasted on all of them holding out for the big guy. I saw one buck in the 170 plus class and about a dozen other four points with the largest in the 150 class. The bucks are there.

Sorry for the rant....
Tim

[Maxx]

I want a link to a scientific study about whether or not recruitment of young bucks is an effective management tool for trophy class deer. So far, no one can provide it.

The questions are: does shooting more small bucks take the pressure off the big bucks, as hunters tag out sooner and therefore don't pursue bigger bucks? Or does the supply of trophy bucks need a lot of recruitment of smaller bucks?

Picking an arbitrary date of Nov 5 for closing any buck without the science to back that date up doesn't seem right. The biologists have the harvest and age stratification statistics to back up their chosen seasons, so I believe they have made their choices based on science, not opinion.

Speaking to locals about the apparent decline of trophy bucks is even less scientific...you can bet the opinion about the supply of bucks from the locals is tainted by whether they want to encourage a non-local to hunt "their" deer or not. Bullshit runs deep amongst the locals in any area! I know it's alive and well where I hunt!

OK, so EVERYONE who wants can hunt a 2 point until Nov 20th in region 5, AND THEN shoot a 4 point from the 20th to the 30th, HOW does this relieve the pressure on the bigger bucks if "hunters are tagged out"?