Training compromise

[Foxton Gundogs]

LabGuy,
I have beem pm'ing a bit with Kasomor. I think i know where i am mixing it up a bit. Hunt test vs Feild trial. I guess I am trying to incorporate Brittish dog vs American dog as well. And the disposition of the Brittish dog is what i like, slower and methodical. Which wouldnt work for Feild trials as well as it would work for hunt test. Im just trying to put too many things in a nut shell.

Vancouver Island Retriever Club,,,,? Is that the one on the back of Bever lake? if not where is it?

Foxton, You know im not slanted! but yup my thread is a bit slanted. I just dont wnat these guys to know im stuck between Springer and lab! they might not help me then!
And as quoted above

"In my oppinion the best dog for the novice trainer/hunter is that middle of the road dog with the high degree of desire minus the extra drive needed for the greatness in field trials"

This is what im trying to figure out, I am not a perfect trainer but im not unexperianced either. Although i am uneducated in terms and uses. But you have definatlly hit it with i want the best hunting dog without all the extras, i want to train the best hunting dog. I dont have a tonne of extra time in my life to train for competition although i am not unopen to the idea of trying when i can.
Why i tend to Firepowers side is his disposition towards a gun dog. Although his ideas may sound old school per say i think he is where i am at for a dog. This is why i like to hear from all sides, Take a bit from everyone!

Hey 835,, I didn't mean "slanted" in a bad way just thats the direction that we were discussing at this time. Sorry if you took it wrong I think its a great thread.

[835]

No no Jim i didnt take it wrong! I was joking at it! It was an insufficent usage of emottocons!

[Foxton Gundogs]

No no Jim i didnt take it wrong! I was joking at it! It was an insufficent usage of emottocons!

NP just sometimes I am not the clearest my brain doesnt mesh with my typing FINGER at times I did take it as intended then got into "over think" mode. Again great thread.

[835]

Overthinking is better then underthinking!
underthinking gets me into trouble, overthinking keeps me out of it!

[Jimsue]

Think of it like this, the show dog is competing in a beauty pagent, the dogs have to meet a breed standard. Think of field trial dogs as the NHL, it is a performance driven sport, I have seen every size and shape, but most of them dont fit in the show dog mould, some yound dogs can be hard to set up and bounce around when guns are going off, the wise ones sit still and watch. British FT dogs look like N American show dogs, there game is different over there, shorter retrieves and you need a very steady dog. there dogs wouldnt work here , and ours wouldnt work there. its a different game.

[835]

Jimsue, I was mixing up Hunt test with Feild trial which i guess also translates to American vs Brittish. Someone somewhere injected the show dog. You just perfectly described what i was wanting to talk about. Brittish feild trial (Hunt test?) disposition versus North American Feild trial.

If you remove the competition in you and you train both a Brittish FT dog and a NA Feild dog as a hunting dog do you think they will both get the job done right? what will the Dogs lack or gain.
In the aspect of a hunting dog.

PS i was not trying to pick on your dogs i was just hoping to use you as a description of what im trying to get at, You breed NA Feild dogs right? the bullets?

[Foxton Gundogs]

Jimsue, I was mixing up Hunt test with Feild trial which i guess also translates to American vs Brittish. Someone somewhere injected the show dog. You just perfectly described what i was wanting to talk about. Brittish feild trial (Hunt test?) disposition versus North American Feild trial.

If you remove the competition in you and you train both a Brittish FT dog and a NA Feild dog as a hunting dog do you think they will both get the job done right? what will the Dogs lack or gain.
In the aspect of a hunting dog.

PS i was not trying to pick on your dogs i was just hoping to use you as a description of what im trying to get at, You breed NA Feild dogs right? the bullets?

I think the one thing that MUST be established here is that no one is or at least should be picking on each others dogs this is a great thread established for a great purpose and we can all learn from it and each other. I have my prefreances and my reasons for them as dose everyone else. Like Waylon said in the song "He ain't wrong he's just diffrent" I respect every type of dog and owner for what they are and that they are (hopefully) right for each other like "mine" are right for me and those I train for.

[835]

Exactly, The idea is for me and others to find out the reasons and purposes for these dogs. And, Which we havent touched on yet the different training methods.

This is why the title is a bit confusing, my intro kinda sucked.

[Foxton Gundogs]

OK, fair enuff, Step 1... I use the natural instinct method, I start pups with fun retrieving as soon as they can see good enuff to make a 10' "retrieve"(and I use that term loosely in the beginning) but it doesnt take very long before their passion is awakened. I do the same with find/flush. I hang a wing on a string on a pole and bump it along till it gains their attention then I play with them like a cat with a yarn ball getting them to chase it across the ground and pulling it up (to simulate a flush) at the last min. I have pix somewhere in the cyber-netherworld of 4 week old pups coming right off the ground after a "flushed" wing. Instill the passion and they wont let you down I can truthfully say I have never had a dog in a hunting situation fail on a retrieve(unless I've called it off) much less refuse to deliver, or blinked an upland bird.

[Lots'oLabs]

LabGuy,
I have beem pm'ing a bit with Kasomor. I think i know where i am mixing it up a bit. Hunt test vs Feild trial. I guess I am trying to incorporate Brittish dog vs American dog as well. And the disposition of the Brittish dog is what i like, slower and methodical. Which wouldnt work for Feild trials as well as it would work for hunt test. Im just trying to put too many things in a nut shell.

Vancouver Island Retriever Club,,,,? Is that the one on the back of Bever lake? if not where is it?

Foxton, You know im not slanted! but yup my thread is a bit slanted. I just dont wnat these guys to know im stuck between Springer and lab! they might not help me then!
And as quoted above

"In my oppinion the best dog for the novice trainer/hunter is that middle of the road dog with the high degree of desire minus the extra drive needed for the greatness in field trials"

This is what im trying to figure out, I am not a perfect trainer but im not unexperianced either. Although i am uneducated in terms and uses. But you have definatlly hit it with i want the best hunting dog without all the extras, i want to train the best hunting dog. I dont have a tonne of extra time in my life to train for competition although i am not unopen to the idea of trying when i can.
Why i tend to Firepowers side is his disposition towards a gun dog. Although his ideas may sound old school per say i think he is where i am at for a dog. This is why i like to hear from all sides, Take a bit from everyone!

Hi all,
It's been a while since I checked in but thought I'd throw my 2 cents into the pool.
Personally I don't care for the generalization of "British" style labs versus "American".
The bench style lab is bred to meet the CKC/AKC standardization of what criteria should be met in a titled show Labrador.
Sadly, too often, the bench bred Labrador lacks physicality and natural drive.

Given that hunting and competitive field dogs require both athletisicim and drive, there are another group of breeders who dedicate themselves to maintaining these desired traits.

In both of these diciplines some breeders do it better than others. There are several respected breeders who are putting out confirmation (bench) style Labs that have the natural hunting ability that 835 is looking to eventually own.

Having said that, choosing a competitive field trial dog is a little different. For most of us looks are of less importance than the desired traits we like to see. Don't get me wrong.... I don't like to see a snipey nose or whippett tail but there are other behaviors that are more important to me.

We all like to see a "high flyer". It's exciting and often can be viewed as stylish in field trial circles. However sometimes it comes with the job of having to train out some of the dogs natural desire, ie: noise, breaking, creeping, or even hardmouth. These are argueably traits caused by stress or poor training but often we see them passed down from generation to generation.

A solid foundation of obedience is also needed in F/T training.

At the end of the day when choosing either a hunting dog, hunt test dog or field trial dog, the final choice should be dependant upon what you are willing to accept , what your skill level is to overcome training issues and the amount of time you are willing to put into your training programme.

The Vancouver Island Retriever club is always open to anyone who would like to spend a day watching us train and in particular, my own training group. We're a pretty knowledgable group (I'm speaking of my mentors). I can be PM'd any time.

Cheers,
Deb