243 for sheep?

[CanuckShooter]

Goat,

Yeah, I'd say it does sound like he didn't touch lungs.... But "just touching the right rear ham" doesn't mean it was "shot in the ass". Sounds like the shot was likely a bit high and in through the flank (just touching the right rear ham), but that's just my interpretation of his information. And Yep of course, not a great first choice and one that is inevitably going to be a bit messy. (I prefer an intact gut bag). BUT, I wouldn't say an unethical shot if the shooter thought he was going to hit lungs and kill the deer on the spot. Remember, where the shooter intended to hit given the opportunity and animal position he is faced with and where the bullet actually does hit are two different things.
So you're not going to get an argument out of me about this being "ideal shot placement" but you are dead wrong that a .338 Win Mag wouldn't have changed the result in this case. The extra 1600 ft lbs of energy (double that of the .243) larger calibre bullet and resulting wound channel would have dropped that deer on the spot as well as smashed that shoulder.
Yep, not ideal in a game animal that you are wanting to eat, but come on, lets be realistic.....

I have to agree with you on that...338wm drops them in their tracks....

[GoatGuy]

I have to agree with you on that...338wm drops them in their tracks....

In the last 5 years I can recall two grizz, 3 b bears, 2 moose and 3 mule deer that didn't drop in their tracks with a .338. There's a lot more critters that did but it isn't a sure and fast deal. It's all about shot placement.

[houndogger]

Watched it on a bear this spring with a .338 quartering away although it exited before the front shoulder. Two drops of blood and it wasn't recovered until the next morning.

Guess there's two schools of thought. Use a small caliber and shoot it well or use a cannon and shoot it poorly. I know which one will guarantee results.

Bears are a poor example as many perfectly shot bears leave no blood at all...

[Singleshotneeded]

My ethics involve shooting a game animal in the lower chest, frontal shot, or behind the shoulder, broadside shot...not shooting an animal that's running directly away from you in the butt. I passed up such a shot just this past season on a 5 pt. whitetail. You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything...

[Whisky Creek]

You forgot about the 3rd school of thought Goat. Never ever shoot at an animal, because it doesn't present itself exactly like the target at the range did, or the picture in the magazine with the target overlay on it, and because the bullet might not hit exactly where you intend....

And, since you made the limiting insinuation in your "schools of thought" let me add another, which I think David Heitsman was probably getting at.

Use a bullet / cartridge adequate to do the job under ideal conditions and shot opportunities, AND also one which will allow a little room for error in times where "shit just doesn't work out exactly as planned".....
"Walk softly and carry a big stick" AND swing it well.... Not possible you say?

I carry a .340 Wby Mag for moose, bear, bison etc..... I could use my trusty old .30-06, my .308 or even my .257 Wby to do the job, but for a few reasons I almost always grab the .340.
Because some folks refer to it as a "cannon" does that mean that I am a poor shot with it? Does that mean that I am not a very good marksman and that is why I carry "a cannon"??? So that I can shoot poorly????
What do you carry for moose, bear etc???
Maybe, if you have time, bring it down to the WSSOBC with you and we'll see if we can sneak off to PAW325's private range and try a few shots.
I'll bet you, you won't "out shoot" my cannon.......

[CanuckShooter]

In the last 5 years I can recall two grizz, 3 b bears, 2 moose and 3 mule deer that didn't drop in their tracks with a .338. There's a lot more critters that did but it isn't a sure and fast deal. It's all about shot placement.

Deer, everyone that I have shot with the 338 bangflopped like hit with a big stick...the bull elk I shot last fall got knocked on his arse got up and ran 100 feet and expired...

I agree shot placement is important, but from my experience you hit a deer with 225gr out of a 338wm and they don't go far.

[Whisky Creek]

My ethics involve shooting a game animal in the lower chest, frontal shot, or behind the shoulder, broadside shot...not shooting an animal that's running directly away from you in the butt. I passed up such a shot just this past season on a 5 pt. whitetail. You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything...

Agreed, but I don't read David Heitsman saying the deer was running away, or that he shot it in the butt.
I think he said, "starting to move away" and that the bullet "just touched the rear ham".

As a measurer for B&C I've seen a surprising amount of ram horns with bullet holes in them. Do you think that the hunter meant to shoot them in the horns, or do you think that maybe once in a while the bullet doesn't always strike where it was intended, regardless of the animal position and shot presented to the shooter?

[GoatGuy]

I usually pack a 338 as my go to gun although I don't shoot at much. If a person feels undergunned with a .243 on deer they should be shooting a t-Rex if they're going grizz hunting.


Guys shoot animals in the horns and antlers because that is usually where they're looking when they're shooting. Very common for the folks that get wrapped up in the moment.

You forgot about the 3rd school of thought Goat. Never ever shoot at an animal, because it doesn't present itself exactly like the target at the range did, or the picture in the magazine with the target overlay on it, and because the bullet might not hit exactly where you intend....

And, since you made the limiting insinuation in your "schools of thought" let me add another, which I think David Heitsman was probably getting at.

Use a bullet / cartridge adequate to do the job under ideal conditions and shot opportunities, AND also one which will allow a little room for error in times where "shit just doesn't work out exactly as planned".....
"Walk softly and carry a big stick" AND swing it well.... Not possible you say?

I carry a .340 Wby Mag for moose, bear, bison etc..... I could use my trusty old .30-06, my .308 or even my .257 Wby to do the job, but for a few reasons I almost always grab the .340.
Because some folks refer to it as a "cannon" does that mean that I am a poor shot with it? Does that mean that I am not a very good marksman and that is why I carry "a cannon"??? So that I can shoot poorly????
What do you carry for moose, bear etc???
Maybe, if you have time, bring it down to the WSSOBC with you and we'll see if we can sneak off to PAW325's private range and try a few shots.
I'll bet you, you won't "out shoot" my cannon.......

[Goliath]

Use a bullet / cartridge adequate to do the job under ideal conditions and shot opportunities, AND also one which will allow a little room for error in times where "shit just doesn't work out exactly as planned.

I agree. Having an "insurance" factor within your armory is practical.

Never had a shot that didn't work out as planned? Count yourself an excellent marksman with excellent judgement and uncanny ability to anticipate the unpredictable.

[GoatGuy]

I agree. Having an "insurance" factor within your armory is practical.

Never had a shot that didn't work out as planned? Count yourself an excellent marksman with excellent judgement and uncanny ability to anticipate the unpredictable.

Just saying a person's way better off shooting a gun they're comfortable with then something they're scared of. And, make the first shot count.