Notice to hunters hunting the DeaseLake/StikineRiver Areas

[The Hermit]

WOW, that's awful...do you think: the grizzly bears, the wolves, the black bears and the cougars...do you think they report/CI thier kills??

Guess what?? They don't...and they kill more animals than all the indians combined....

I don't understand this post. Are you saying that FN operate on the same basis as the other predators? You imply, that in your opinion, FN shouldn't be compelled to report their harvest, regardless of their own conservation concerns but that other residents of BC should? Where do you really stand on this question?

Respectfully,

[CanuckShooter]

I don't understand this post. Are you saying that FN operate on the same basis as the other predators? You imply, that in your opinion, FN shouldn't be compelled to report their harvest, regardless of their own conservation concerns but that other residents of BC should? Where do you really stand on this question?

Respectfully,

It is my opinion that 'harvest stats' are not really all that important in the scheme of determining the wildlife populations [FD says otherwise?]. While they are awful handy in determining 'success rates' I believe that harvest stats are only another tool to use for the purpose of restricting hunting opps. With all the other ways for these animals to die...I just don't think that these harvest stats are really as important as proper field work would be to determine the number of game animals in an area. Those stats being collected at these special check points will be used to provide evidence of the 'excessive' number of animals being harvested by non-abo hunters.....and you can be guaranteed they will use the numbers to push for more restrictions.

I know that not all non-aboriginals fill in thier harvest cards either[&not all get them], so to say that the fn's don't while the rest of us do...is not exactly correct. Personally I don't have a problem telling them what I shoot.

[CanuckShooter]

The tongue in cheek answers displayed earlier in the thread do absolutely nothing to help relations. It just shows the ignorance of poster.

Population dynamics have taken into account such factors as, natural mortality, calf survial, car accidents, and even regulated harvest.

What is missing from the equation is the unregulated harvest. The individuals who dont buy licenses, apply for LEH, contribute to the habitat fund, and who dont recieve questionaires to give a sample of their hunting and harvesting stats.

Why is this difficult to do? I think the lack of an answer speaks louder than the answer itself.

This is not meant to be racist or predjudice. Only one mans thinking and what I have personally seen first hand.

What a bunch of crap "population dynamics have taken into account such factors as ,natural mortality...etc" IMMEDIATELY followed by "What is missing from the equation is the unregulated harvest"

How do they determine how many calves are killed by bears each spring? How do they determine where the main body of a herd is...when they don't know the migration patterns? How do they determine cow/bull ratios when they do very little actual in the field counts?? How many wolves are killing the animals...the last time I checked nobody was regulating their hunting so your equation will always be buggered.....

[Devilbear]

I think what bothers most people is the double standard of rules and the lack of effort on the governments part to enforce the laws.

Disrupting or interferring with a legal hunt is a criminal activity.
(illegal road blocks)

Any native that hunts outside their traditional territory is subject to the hunting regulations, regarding method of harvest, species, sex and seasons. This includes the purchase of license and tags. The sustenance hunting on non traditional terrirory requires that bands approval.

The idea that "it is a free for all" just because of race is absurd. However the reality is that is exactly what is happening. If a native is outside their territory and hunting without the bands approval and without proper licenses, they are plain and simple POACHERS.

The lack of backbone in not posecuting these cases to the fullest extent of the law is appalling.

If one would expect the courtesy to respect culture and traditions, to not burn native fish camps, nets, or destroy artifacts than I could only hope the natives would respect the trucks, trailers and motorhomes that are left at the countless boat launches in the northern half of the province.

I have seen first hand the burnt trucks on the jade boulder road and other places.

Yes, I do think that it is a small population of natives that are causing alot of the problems just as a few non native hunters are causing problems.

In todays age, with the access to motor vehicles, boats, ATVs, high powered rifles, are special seasons really required by natives? Can it be blamed on economics? How about the mill workers on Van Island who have watched mill after mill shut down, no jobs, no money, should they not be allowed to harvest as many elk as they want? The govenrment would crucify them! Its not economics. Its greed.

This is what rubs non natives the wrong way. Plain and simple. Hunters work hard for their animals, it is a sense of pride. To watch another hunter disregard the rules and regulations to a sport that we are so passionate about with out consequence will always spark a heated debate.

I would hate to think that non native hunters would not welcome law abiding native hunters into camp or even share in the workinvolved in dragging a moose out of the bush if it arose simply because of race. We are all hunters. From all nationalities. It is in our best interest to concerve and preserve our future.

The tongue in cheek answers displayed earlier in the thread do absolutely nothing to help relations. It just shows the ignorance of poster.

Population dynamics have taken into account such factors as, natural mortality, calf survial, car accidents, and even regulated harvest.

What is missing from the equation is the unregulated harvest. The individuals who dont buy licenses, apply for LEH, contribute to the habitat fund, and who dont recieve questionaires to give a sample of their hunting and harvesting stats.

Why is this difficult to do? I think the lack of an answer speaks louder than the answer itself.

This is not meant to be racist or predjudice. Only one mans thinking and what I have personally seen first hand.

This, is a very good post and it represents the majority of the opinions on this issue that I have heard/read over the past few decades in both BC and Alberta. However, it also contains the "seeds" of what the REAL problem IS, in respect of WHY this utterly vile and totally unacceptable situation has been allowed to develop.

That is first, the reference to aboriginals as ...natives..., which they are, however, so is EVERY Canadian born within the borders of The Dominion of Canada. One could very well and with historical accuracy, make the point that since the DoC is a creation of people originally from northwestern Europe, whom we know first came here over a thousand years ago and such persons have lived and worked in parts of North America, since and actually before the forbears of many aboriginal Asiatic groups came to this continent., their descendants are the real "native" Canadians...but, we do not discriminate in this manner, as we strive for equality and decency to all peoples.

However, if we, as we should, concentrate on the living and our shared nation, it becomes apparent that the INTERPRETATION of certain 18thC. "treaties" by leftist courts has allowed aboriginal groups to behave as their ancestors simply could not have...as witness the use of electric "jacklights", killing and leaving many large quadrupeds by the use of rifles, lights, atvs, "reefer" trucks and two-way radio/GPS technology. This, was never intended by those who wrote the "treaties" and, I do not think most Canadians, today, agree with such ecologically devastating behaviour, or, support "special" rights for aboriginals.

Among, the various methods of fighting these racist, greedy and destructive peoples, is to NEVER use their recently developed political terms in your speech or writing. The specious label "first nations" is one that some radicals invented in the '80s, simply do NOT grant them that status in your comments and also do not ever agree with ANY status for them that differs from what we Canadians are all allowed by our laws. Words, have power and a refusal to assist the devious nonsense of "first nations", or, "first peoples" WILL help to resist the advancement of the racially-based aboriginal agenda.

The burning of vehicles, camps and physical threats now commonplace MUST also be resisted, keep at least two ARMED adults in your camps, guard your vehicles and keep a video record of ANYONE who approaches you on any hunting/fishing trips you take. GO ARMED and let intruders know that you WILL use force, as outlined in Sections 34-37 of The Criminal Code of Canada to protect and sustain yourself, family, pets, possessions and freedoms and DO IT!

The data collected for environmental management purposes MUST be gathered by trained, well-educated professionals from the MoE, MoF and NOT be some gobbletygook from some "warrior" who sits beside a fire pounding a skin drum and yelling incoherent babble, "hiya, hiya, hiya". WE are the MAJORITY, BC BELONGS to US and, it is time to stop cooperating with the aboriginals and FIGHT BACK...and preserve our hunting/angling heritage, as we can, if we all wolrk together.

[ohotnik]

I think what bothers most people is the double standard of rules and the lack of effort on the governments part to enforce the laws.

Disrupting or interferring with a legal hunt is a criminal activity.
(illegal road blocks)

Any native that hunts outside their traditional territory is subject to the hunting regulations, regarding method of harvest, species, sex and seasons. This includes the purchase of license and tags. The sustenance hunting on non traditional terrirory requires that bands approval.

The idea that "it is a free for all" just because of race is absurd. However the reality is that is exactly what is happening. If a native is outside their territory and hunting without the bands approval and without proper licenses, they are plain and simple POACHERS.

The lack of backbone in not posecuting these cases to the fullest extent of the law is appalling.

If one would expect the courtesy to respect culture and traditions, to not burn native fish camps, nets, or destroy artifacts than I could only hope the natives would respect the trucks, trailers and motorhomes that are left at the countless boat launches in the northern half of the province.

I have seen first hand the burnt trucks on the jade boulder road and other places.

Yes, I do think that it is a small population of natives that are causing alot of the problems just as a few non native hunters are causing problems.

In todays age, with the access to motor vehicles, boats, ATVs, high powered rifles, are special seasons really required by natives? Can it be blamed on economics? How about the mill workers on Van Island who have watched mill after mill shut down, no jobs, no money, should they not be allowed to harvest as many elk as they want? The govenrment would crucify them! Its not economics. Its greed.

This is what rubs non natives the wrong way. Plain and simple. Hunters work hard for their animals, it is a sense of pride. To watch another hunter disregard the rules and regulations to a sport that we are so passionate about with out consequence will always spark a heated debate.

I would hate to think that non native hunters would not welcome law abiding native hunters into camp or even share in the workinvolved in dragging a moose out of the bush if it arose simply because of race. We are all hunters. From all nationalities. It is in our best interest to concerve and preserve our future.

The tongue in cheek answers displayed earlier in the thread do absolutely nothing to help relations. It just shows the ignorance of poster.

Population dynamics have taken into account such factors as, natural mortality, calf survial, car accidents, and even regulated harvest.

What is missing from the equation is the unregulated harvest. The individuals who dont buy licenses, apply for LEH, contribute to the habitat fund, and who dont recieve questionaires to give a sample of their hunting and harvesting stats.

Why is this difficult to do? I think the lack of an answer speaks louder than the answer itself.

This is not meant to be racist or predjudice. Only one mans thinking and what I have personally seen first hand.

+100. Very well said, Derek. Thank you.

[The Hermit]

Okay so are you are saying that no person regardless of their race should have to report and that your rationale for that position is that unless we count every animal, attempting to manage scientifically is totally useless? You seem to think that extrapolation based on hunter success is totally worthless.

My question is: do you think it is right that aboriginals should not have to report while the rest of BC's residents do?

Respectfully,

Bill

It is my opinion that 'harvest stats' are not really all that important in the scheme of determining the wildlife populations [FD says otherwise?]. While they are awful handy in determining 'success rates' I believe that harvest stats are only another tool to use for the purpose of restricting hunting opps. With all the other ways for these animals to die...I just don't think that these harvest stats are really as important as proper field work would be to determine the number of game animals in an area. Those stats being collected at these special check points will be used to provide evidence of the 'excessive' number of animals being harvested by non-abo hunters.....and you can be guaranteed they will use the numbers to push for more restrictions.

I know that not all non-aboriginals fill in thier harvest cards either[&not all get them], so to say that the fn's don't while the rest of us do...is not exactly correct. Personally I don't have a problem telling them what I shoot.

[Gunner]

Okay so are you are saying that no person regardless of their race should have to report and that your rationale for that position is that unless we count every animal, attempting to manage scientifically is totally useless? You seem to think that extrapolation based on hunter success is totally worthless.

My question is: do you think it is right that aboriginals should not have to report while the rest of BC's residents do?

Respectfully,

Bill

You won't get a straight answer.I disagee with Canuckshooters assertion that harvest questionaires are useless.It's a great rationale to excuse one user group from reporting,no different from the fact that one user group refuses to report the number of salmon that they harvest.Suprise,suprise....we are talking about the same user group! Gunner