Crossbows?

[Walksalot]

The bottom line is that if a person doesn't have time to practice to get the form down, which is a very important factor in becoming a consistently accurate shooter, for a traditional or compound then a crossbow would be the choice.
Without a dought it is distance guesstimating which is the key to any archery weapon.

[huntwriter]

IT PI$$ES me off that people have the nerve to buy any type of weapon for 2 extra week's of hunting there should be a manditory cource you take to get the change to hunt with archery gear . Just my thoughts AND I KNOW THAT THERE A SOME THAT WILL ******DISSAGREE STRONGLY ***** but would it not be better for all of us and the game if we all became proficent with any of the weapons we choose . PLEASE DON'T BEAT ME UP TO BAD LOL
calvin L

I do not disagree strongly...I just disagree with anything that has the word "mandatory" attached to it.

What you suggest has been tried elsewhere and it had no positive effect whatsoever on the proficiency of hunters.
Hunting is way over regulated and tied up with "mandatory obligations"...in fact this is the #1 cause why many new and young people stay away from hunting.

How are you going to do such a proficiency test?
In New York State every hunter has to make a proficiency test. In order to pass you have to shoot five arrows at 35 yards into the kill zone.

Here is the crux with that test.

What if you are not comfortable shooting at this distance and only shoot at 25 yards? You fail the test, evenso you are proficient out to 25 yards.

What if you have test nerves and miss by one arrow? You failed the test.

The New York statistics show that most hunters who fail the test never re-take the test again and go back to rifle hunting. The various bowhunting organizations who at first lobbied a proficiency test are now trying their best to get rid of it because the bowhunter numbers shink fast.

Should we make tests at different ranges, and then make out certificates stating that hunter A is permitted to shoot deer out to 25 yards and hunter B out to 30 yards? Who is going to enfoce that once the hunter is in his treestand?

You see, it's very much like driving a car. We all have to learn how to drive a car and we all have to make a proficiency test. Does it work? Of course not! If it would work there would be no speeders, no drunk drivers and no road-hogs sitting behind steering weels causing accidents. Neither can it be enforced because there are more car drivers that police.

So what makes us think it would work with hunters.

In America some states have no hunter education and proficiency tests whatsoever, some others have voluntary hunter education and proficiency tests, still others have mandatory hunter education and proficiency tests. There is clear evidence that overall in America hunter education and proficiency tests have not made one iota of difference how hunters behave. Hunters that have to take a hunter education course and proficiency test are not better than the ones that don't. The only diffence it made is in the hunter numbers. Where education and tests are mandatory the numbers are in steady decline. Where hunters do not need education and tests or where it is volunatary the numbers hold even or climb slightly.

Before someone comes up to say, but huntwriter look at what the different hunter education organizations say how ethics and hunter safety have improved because of education. Let me say this; Hunter education organizations are first of all a business making money of the hunters, with that they have to speak positively of themselves. It's called advertising and with that comes making up stories and tilt aspects in onse favour to look good and state a purpose of existence.

Hunter ethics cannot be thaught in a 40 something hour course. Hunter safety has not improved. Hunting always has been one of the safest sports, a lot safer than basketball. The reson why accident numbers have dropped is because hunter numbers have dropped too. As far back as 30 years and more the hunter accident rate is allways around +/-1%. This number is taken from the government accident statistics and are a lot more accurate and unbiased than the once released by hunter education groups.

Proficiency is what we make it. For some it might be 25 yards for others 50 yards, but it can not be regulated. Once we are in the woods we are alone and it is up to us to decide what's right and what not. There always will be the odd one that does not care but it would not be right to make laws because of them alone. Laws never prevented slobs, poaching, being a road-hog and such.

The real problem with hunting, but not only, is peer preassure. I lost count how many times I heard; "Only sissies wear a safety belt in a treestand", "If you can't shoot an arrow out to 50 yards you should not go hunting with a bow." or "If you are a serious rifle hunter you have to own a .300 magnum." It is this negatieve macho peer pressure that leads others to "measure" up and unethical behaviour.

[calvin L]

HUNTWRITER you are right about to many course's and cash grabs my be if in the core program if they toughed on archery a bit more it would help . I do realize we will never be able to stop all of the $hit for brains out there but it would be nice. I have some buddies in nova scotia that had to take a course before they could hunt with a bow it was part of there core program . there hunting family thought it was a great idea . I see in your reply some good well thought out and informed infromation .I gess I am just upset we all have to deal with crap like I listed in my post in this day and age . There still seem to be a lack of respect by some for the sport,the animals we hunt and other hunters .

[bcfarmer]

The bottom line is that if a person doesn't have time to practice to get the form down, which is a very important factor in becoming a consistently accurate shooter, for a traditional or compound then a crossbow would be the choice.
Without a dought it is distance guesstimating which is the key to any archery weapon.

I have to say this is what i thought when i bought my first crossbow 4 years ago. I couldn't have been more wrong. It takes a great deal of practice to be able to hit where you want, from all angles, in order to be confident that there will be a clean kill.

I hunt / 3D shoot with a crossbow because of a shoulder injury which does not allow me to practice enough with a longbow or compound. So some people should think about disabilities before they denounce the use of crossbows.(just a general statement,,not directed at anyone)

As has been stated before...if its a legal weapon then encourage people to get into the bush.

bcfarmer

[Onesock]

In a way I have to agree with bcfarmer and calvin. The only way to stop hunters from buying a weapon and hunting before they know what its short comings are is to have mandatory bow hunter education. I would not want to see proficiency testing brought in. Teach them how an arrow kills and give them some bowhunter education. Why should we have mandatory proficency for a bow when it is not required for a firearm? Mandatory bowhunter education tes, mandatory proficiency testing no.

[sealevel]

How many people hunting with a rifle can`t hit the broad side of a barn door. There are lots of hunters come to the range 2 weeks before hunting season bench rest the rifle take a couple shots and go hunting. Most of them couldn`t hit a 2foot square box off hand with a rifle. And if there 45 years and under they took the core so what good do`es that do. No mandatory course is going to make anyone practace shooting bow crossbow or rifle.

[Onesock]

I agree with you sealevel 100%. But if they have to take the IBEP course they have to think about what they are getting into prior than 2 weeks before they do it. They would have to take the course sometime before hunting, so it would not be spur of the moment. It would make these new guys think about what they are doing. But I do agree a course will not make someone become proficient with their weapon of choice.

[huntwriter]

In a way I have to agree with bcfarmer and calvin. The only way to stop hunters from buying a weapon and hunting before they know what its short comings are is to have mandatory bow hunter education. I would not want to see proficiency testing brought in. Teach them how an arrow kills and give them some bowhunter education. Why should we have mandatory proficency for a bow when it is not required for a firearm? Mandatory bowhunter education tes, mandatory proficiency testing no.

That would drive even more hunters away from our sport. I mean how much more schems do we come up with to make hunting difficult for beginners.

The worst case scenario would then look something like this.
Mandatory Hunter Education.
Mandatory Achery Proficiency Test.
Mandatory Firearm Proficiency Test.
Mandatory Crossbow Proficiency test.

I already feel sorry for the hunter who would hunt with different weapons. The hunters would have a pocket full of licenses and emty bank account and there still would be slobs out there. Laws and mandatory obligations never will stop wrongdoers. Strict law enforcement of existing laws and punishment however will.

I know we live in an age where we are hell bent on eradicating all accidents, sloppiness and other unplesant things with ever more laws and regulation plus still more "education". I was in Soviet Russia and Mao China, they tried the same thing there too. The perfect society where people carried stacks of licenses around from such simple things as child rearing licence to street sweeping licence and bicycle riding. Each of these licences had to be gained trough mandatory education courses. It was an almost perfect world with the only notable differece people where not free anymore not even in their own bedrooms. Heck before you could get married you had make a martiage education course and then got a license that you are fit to marry.

We are heading fast that way too.

[huntwriter]

I hunt / 3D shoot with a crossbow because of a shoulder injury which does not allow me to practice enough with a longbow or compound. So some people should think about disabilities before they denounce the use of crossbows.(just a general statement,,not directed at anyone)

As has been stated before...if its a legal weapon then encourage people to get into the bush.

bcfarmer

For the utterly undeserved bad reputation the cossbow has you can thank organizations like the IBEP, Pope & Young Club plus other high profile archery organizations who in the preservation of their small minded interest spent an unbelievable amount of time, effort and money on bad mouthing the crossbow when it first became popular. It is thanks to them that the very effectieve and traditional crossbow (crossbows are in use for over 800 years) has been reduced to a "disabled hunter" weapon.

Only recently, when the crossbow became more popular and some American states, quit rightly, ignorerd the whining of the archery lobby and declared the crossbow a legal hunting weapon for ALL hunters in the archery season, has the IBEP changed his mind. I guess they smelled the money that could be made of crossbows, and offer now crossbow education courses. We even see now that some archery organizations changed their mind by "welcoming crossbows and an exiting new addition to archery". Can you spell HYPOCRISY

I made the right decision when I turned my back on the IBEP and the P&Y Club years ago for their stance on crossbows.

[Onesock]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion I guess.