Crossbows

[islandhunter]

well put rrfred, the crossbow takes much of the same talent as any other bow except that you hold it differently. it might be a bit easier to shoot right away but still, you're not gonna go out and bag a deer on your first day! any type of bowhunting is much tougher than rifle hunting. Thats why crossbows are allowed in the bow season.

[Ddog]

100% disagree that a crossbows range is the same as compound,ethically maybe, but i have talked to dozens of people who hunt with crossbows and they say that they have and will shoot at distances of 70 and 80yards without hesitation.. i have seen groupings in targets at a distance of 65 yards 6 bolts all touching and two robin hoods...65 yards! it is far easier to shoot than a bow..Requires way less movement and has a stock like a rifle and a trigger and a scope..
i dont disagree with those who hunt with a crossbow or rifle for that matter..i just disagree that it is allowed in archery only seasons.If one wants to hunt with a crossbow then hunt with it all season not just the early or late seasons...
i have never met one crossbow hunter that hunts with it for more than the early or late season..not 1

[brotherjack]

I suggest that bow hunters should be careful how many people they work to 'keep out' of bowhunting, or someday they may find there's not enough bowhunters to keep bow seasons from being closed alltogether...

[brotherjack]

i have never met one crossbow hunter that hunts with it for more than the early or late season..not 1

If we're going to base this on what we have personally seen - I have personally run into two different hunters deep in the bush during rifle season carying crossbows (one of them on several occasions - he hunts two of the same areas I frequent). I have never run into anyone carying a compound or traditional bow in the bush during rifle season. All the crossbow hunters I know personally don't take shots past 40 yards because of the ethics involved (some of us won't even shoot past about 25), but I know several guys who shoot compound bows that can hammer beautiful groups at 70 yards. They shoot (at) critters at those kinds of yardage too, and brag about what awesome archers they are because they have put in the practice to be such great shots at long ranges. The only traditional bow shooter I know misses animals all the time, because he says a traditional bow is harder to shoot straight with, but he likes the challenge of it all.

So, if you wanted to make laws based on my personal experience, crossbow hunters are far more ethical than compound or traditional bow shooters. Therefore I feel that nobody but crossbow hunters should be allowed to hunt during bow season. It's just not fair to the animals to do otherwise! We should start a crossbow hunters lobby, and convince the politicians to outlaw the use of anything but crossbows during bow season.


P.S. - in case you didn't notice, I'm being sarcastic - I don't really think that anyone should be bared from bowhunting, regardless of the tackle.

[J_T]

BJ,

I suggest that bow hunters should be careful how many people they work to 'keep out' of bowhunting, or someday they may find there's not enough bowhunters to keep bow seasons from being closed alltogether...

While I agree with the intention of your statement, you make an assumption that a "potential" new crossbow hunter is contributing to the establishment of a season.

There are 10,000 hunters that checked off the bowhunter box on their license last year. Through careful research we estimate there are almost 20,000 bowhunters in the province. (Renn, 2004, Bowhunting: An Effective but Overlooked Tool for Wildlife Mangement in British Columbia)

Hunting opportunities are established using existing data, it is through a hunter's recognition of an increased opportunity that a transition from one weapon type (rifle) to another (bow) occurs. This increase in numbers presents a risk that must be managed.

I would submit that rather than a season be lost, the bowhunters relationship with MOE would result in weapons restrictions, should unacceptable activity or harvest numbers occur.

JT

[J_T]

So, if you wanted to make laws based on my personal experience, crossbow hunters are far more ethical than compound or traditional bow shooters. Therefore I feel that nobody but crossbow hunters should be allowed to hunt during bow season.

Ouch, take the gloves off. Or what? Even in jest.

Personal experience isn't really relative to any of these discussions.

I met a man..... that shot a mule deer (from his quad) with a crossbow at 108 yards. His fourth bolt fired from a crossbow - ever. A "Hail Mary" he called it. His first shot was at 40 yards.

My effective range on an elk, is 20 yards. My effective range on a whitetail, is 15 yards.

The difference is not in one weapon being effective really, but the impact the range has on opportunity and ultimately on harvest numbers. Risk.

JT

[Onesock]

If a person could pick only one weapon to hunt with what would it be? I don't think too many guys are married to the Xbow for more than a couple of days a year.

[brotherjack]

Ouch, take the gloves off. Or what? Even in jest.

Personal experience isn't really relative to any of these discussions.

I know, that was my point - all this talk about how "I saw this crossbow hunter do...." blah blah some unethical thing, with the subsequent conclusion (or implication) that crossbows shouldn't be allowed in bow season is, to me, just as silly.

I mean, if we wanted to get really ugly about it - rifle hunters could start a lobby for the elimination of bow seasons, becuase they could say that a rifle is a far more humane way to harvest an animal than a bow (and I think that's actually true, which would make it a pretty easy argument).

My opinion, is that all such bickering and whining is just crap. We're all hunters, and we need to all be working for the furthering of the ethics and popularity and viability of hunting. If there are rampant ethical problems - then we need to educate and enforce to work on that. If there are managment issues relating to an influx of new bowhunters, then let's manage those issues and again, educate the new guys (and gals) to handle these things. I think the issues involved in having more hunters (of any stripe) is a problem we'd like to have, rather than having fewer and fewer until someday the tree-huggers get hunting outlawed alltogether.

All of this, IMHO, of course.

I met a man..... that shot a mule deer (from his quad) with a crossbow at 108 yards. His fourth bolt fired from a crossbow - ever. A "Hail Mary" he called it. His first shot was at 40 yards.

My effective range on an elk, is 20 yards. My effective range on a whitetail, is 15 yards.

The difference is not in one weapon being effective really, but the impact the range has on opportunity and ultimately on harvest numbers. Risk.

You seemed to get my point, but then you go right back to pointing to the unethical behavior you have seen as part of the problem? ....

Anyway... I'm probably being a bit of a jerk, for which I apologize.


And while I was jesting, that's really the truth about my experience with the various forms of bowhunter. I even had a buddy who shoots a compound bow give me some serious grief because I wouldn't practice at 80 yards with my crossbow. "How are you got to shoot that 7 point bull elk at 80 yards with confidence when that's the only shot you get, if you've never practiced?" he says... "Becuase I won't shoot him at 80 yards if that's the only shot I get" says I...

[rrfred]

Long range, stationary targets for fun, sure; used to practice at long distances too- experienced or properly trained bowhunters know the score. Long shots as previously mentioned are not for wary game animals however; dont forget the time of flight issue and speed of game reactions, a lot can happen in the lag time between arrival of the sound in 1/10 second, and the 3/4 to 1 second it takes for the bolt /arrow to arrive...

[J_T]

BrotherJack,

My opinion, is that all such bickering and whining is just crap. We're all hunters, and we need to all be working for the furthering of the ethics and popularity and viability of hunting. If there are rampant ethical problems - then we need to educate and enforce to work on that. If there are managment issues relating to an influx of new bowhunters, then let's manage those issues and again, educate the new guys (and gals) to handle these things. I think the issues involved in having more hunters (of any stripe) is a problem we'd like to have, rather than having fewer and fewer until someday the tree-huggers get hunting outlawed alltogether.

I have to agree with you.

The difficulty with the written word is that you can not always see the tongue in cheek or the tone that something is spoken. So much of good communication is visual.

I did get your meaning, and my pull on the 108 yard shot (true story) was just me comin back at ya.

However, regarding your statement above. I too believe, we are all "hunters". Period. Hunters. And we should work together in regards to, conservation, youth, wildlife, wildlife management, hunter recruitment. I get that, and so do you.

At no time, when I have read your posts, or responded to your posts have I thought otherwise. Good debate, takes time, and effort to present one's views. And in the end, we all learn something.

I am a member of two provincial organizations that believe the above (that we are all hunters and should work together) The TBBC and the UBBC. The TBBC, focus on conservation, working with government authorities and partnering with other agencies (RMEF, CBF&WCP, CBT) to further enhance wildlife. The UBBC is a lobby interest group that pulls its efforts into providing government with innovative and creative hunting opportunities. Yes, for bowhunting. Both organizations strive to provide a better understanding of hunter ethics.

I have worked many years with the BCWF and - no offence to anyone - if you want to really make a difference, the BCWF is set to firmly into its binding constitution to be effective in "some" matters.

I believe: Limited Entry Hunting, gun registration, a lack of social acceptance and a lack of innovation by the hunting advisory groups (combined with an aging demographic) is a reason hunting is dying. I want to work toward new and exciting hunting opportunities and manage the issues of harvest, hunter recruitment and social license & First Nations issues as we do so.

Good debate is required. Educating each other, is required. Patience, is required.

JT