southern interior mule deer strategy?

[338win mag]

Something that always got me was the cattle ranging in wintering area's, theres no need for it. Also after a fire alter the access and if it cant be done with common sense bulldozing of roads then legislation is the next step, I'm not saying no hunting in these area's, just no vehicular access.

[bownut]

Bownut, there are some very bright minded and passionate hunters out there.
Some spend close to half the yr in the field scouting, quantifying inventory.
They see the swings, the ebbs and the flows.
They are consistently successful because they "know" their prey.
They know the land, the habitat, the animals.

With all due respect a lot of what you purport to be a new way of thinking is, in ur own words, "rhetoric".
The drivers in wildlife health and numbers are well defined.
The problems will continue yet here we are kicking a dead horse, just looking for a new spot to kick it.

The "driver" for solution to wildlife challenges comes back to a sustainable funding model.

Habitat enhancement.
Increasing public awareness.
More research and updated science based conclusions.
FN education.
Road deactivation.
The list goes on.....

None of this happens until money goes on the table.
$$$ need to be invested in the resource.

Being the tallest midget in the room doesn't change the fact a person is still a midget.
Arguing the same old shit that has been pushed forward endlessly is not on the radar as a solution.

30,000 ft view chief......
As the true solution continues to gain traction and hopefully comes to fruition.....get on board.
Analyze until ur paralyzed approach will fix f**k all.

I

Look back on the thread, I wasn't the one who called it rhetoric,
As for he rest of your comments, you pretty much concluded what I already stated.
But if you want to take credit, by all means go right ahead.
Do you think that I was stupid enough to think that these changes wouldn't cost?

Maybe you should have a closer look at my past posting, we may have more in common than you think.

[Ourea]

I

Look back on the thread, I wasn't the one who called it rhetoric,
As for he rest of your comments, you pretty much concluded what I already stated.
But if you want to take credit, by all means go right ahead.
Do you think that I was stupid enough to think that these changes wouldn't cost?

Maybe you should have a closer look at my past posting, we may have more in common than you think.

I respect anyone that is passionate about a cause ........

If any way u think I would take credit for ur thoughts and comments...yikes
Borderline nuts for u to think that.

There r people that r bringing resources to the table.....a plan....a funding model.
Then there r those that have ideas with absolutely no ability to significantly have an impact other than to comment.
Pic ur spot on the bus.

[Elk-Aholic]

Absolutely, and it should be happening with regularity.

Would love to see our winter ranges shut down to human activity at the most critical times like many of the states do. Tough to do when we've built homes on the majority of it.

The problem is you guys are getting to be too good at your job! You need to hire some delinquents that can't figure out how to dig guard or put water on the fire. That and maybe we can somehow creat "windy" days.

Throw in burns, anywhere for that matter, lots of them, especially winter range; remove cattle from these areas (cattle are suppose to be off range by end of October/start of November for the most part so by no means should they have access to critical wintering grounds); vehicle restrictions; complete road deactivation (read between the lines as this needs to happen for several reasons); getting Forestry on board with this approach as these are the guys punching in access, building bridges, etc and they also have the ability to remove such bridges and access and the logistics behind such requests; protecting certain areas from development, therefore having partnerships with groups such as TLC who have some money as backing to purchase such grounds for protection, yet still allow hunting/fishing in those areas(obviously has to be calculated as they aren't always pro-hunting in some
areas but partnering up with such groups only raises the ceiling for the long term of wildlife); sound and effective predator management which can be a touchy subject to the general public but that's where education comes into play. None of this is rocket science but requires $$$. Without dollars and cents, it's nothing more than the Canuak's in the post season. Though hunters do have the ability to affect change in the mean time by getting off the computer chair and shooting predators, also fill your bear tags every year, and take a kid hunting with you. Predator hunting is one of the most exciting hunts out there. Lots of action and excitment value and you can change the scenery up regularly to keep the kids entertained. There's some great people carrying the flag trying to climb Mount Everest for wildlife in BC. Not an easy task by any stretch of the imagination as it's not like you can fly a plane to the top but one foot in front of the other.....

[Rupert Retired]

Why the focus on exact population numbers?

First off, it can`t happen as there will never be enough money or proper timing to get it all. Concider the scope of trying to find all of any species.
Second off, until someone tries to create a magical perfect total number to strive for, knowing whats there or what is taken is pointless.

Establishing what a proper herd structure looks like for best potential of newborn recruitment is do-able. Monitoring example herds and extrapolating over models tell us what the pop. potential is like
Said models have to be accurate and paint a clear picture of habitat suitability and level of holding capacity.

Study the lands, find the gaps, patch the flaws, and the critter numbers will take care of themselves.

Not countering you , RR ), just the idea

Don't misunderstand, I did not say "exact population numbers". There are a number of ways of estimating population numbers, some better, some worse, depending on the situation. A good biologist will know the best way in his or her area (that is what they are trained for), and for that particular species. The most accurate methods are usually based on random stratified sampling, with the estimate accuracy increasing with amount spent! Anyway my initial response was to those posters that demand exact harvest numbers, which I pointed out do nothing unless you know the population number. If the total harvest goes up, what does that tell you? Nothing useful, (ie it could be due to numerous factors - are they more vulnerable? Has the population increased by the same amount?) unless the total population is known. Then it can tell you if the harvest rate has actually increased, which as a biologist, you should be paying attention to.

[wideopenthrottle]

harvest is part of the equation but indeed numbers alive in the spring mean so much more

[horshur]

Of course we do goatguy, thats what I meant when I referred to hurting the feelings and holding those accountable for idiotic land use.

go watch on Netflix "unbranded" see what your up against.....

[338win mag]

go watch on Netflix "unbranded" see what your up against.....

I dont watch much TV let alone netflix, why dont you just tell us/me.

[horshur]

I dont watch much TV let alone netflix, why dont you just tell us/me.

Worth watching I don't think they wrote a book. Coles notes. There are 50,000 feral horses on blm lands in the us. The range carrying capacity is 25,000. Blm have 50,000 horses in pens awaiting adoption fed on taxpayers coin.They adopt 5,000 or so a year. Horse slaughter is banned in the states. The range herds increase by 20% a year.
Think about how such an unequatable situation persist when the solutions are obvious? The feelings of general public primarily women.

[338win mag]

Thanks Horshur, there is always a way to get an understanding and an agreement if there is a will. I think certain groups who presently occupy Mule deer wintering grounds (crown land) might be enticed to locate elsewhere if they knew a better deal could be had, and there can be.
If we want Mule deer to have an opportunity to carry on carrying on then we need to think about whats really important for their survival and do what we can to implement these idea's while we still can.

Seems to be an emphasis on the okanagan when in fact were talking about southern bc, extending to the entire province where Mule deer reside. The hunting community should support any efforts made to establish a healthy wintering area's, especially those that have already been affected adversly by human activity whereby we can still turn back the clock.

Public opinion...the government does stuff all the time that isn't popular (taxes, laws etc) even offensive to the general public but yet they do it anyways, this is no different in my view. I dont want the biologists/science to be handcuffed by public opinion when it comes to the future of the health of the resident hunting community in this province either.