Up For Discussion: (Proposal) Apply 6 pt antler restriction to west Kootenay bow only

[IronNoggin]

... That said, I think the challenge in both types of bows is the necessity to be within 40-50 yards for a fairly certain shot. I know some guys are comfortable with longer shots. My point is, compound or cross, the close distance required is the same. I don’t see a need to differentiate between the two.

Ed Zachery.

What we must do, is develop more awareness about weapons. I see any number of times, when we are discussing LEH vs BOS, there is always (from within the hunting community) the comment we must deal with, "if you take the crossbow out, we're fine with..... that".

It isn't the weapon, it's the personal assurance, that an ethical, experienced hunter brings to the hunt. It's easier to make a poor shot with Trad gear at 20 yards than with a crossbow. So what is the criteria?

I do not think that personal biases should enter into the matter at all.
Some here have the same mentality as the Alberta Bow Hunting Org in their desire to rid all bow seasons of crossbows, regardless of whether there are background constraints that will not allow the hunter to use vertical bows.

You still have to get damn close.
You still have to have the required skill level in all related matters.
I see that in general we agree on that.

I enjoy/love hunting. Have no issue with rifle, crossbow etc. I enjoy the people I hunt with. Their weapon of choice, is their own.

Also Ed Zachery.

Cheers

[Ron.C]

Done, just made comments of several proposals I agree/disagree with.

Regarding WK archery elk to 6 pt, I'm ok with this but make 6pt elk archery only until mid Oct and open a 15 day late rifle season mid-end Oct.

Matter of fact, would like to see this across the entire Kootenay region.

Ive killed elk with bow,rifle,and muzzleloader and don't favour one method over other.

[KBC]

Some here have the same mentality as the Alberta Bow Hunting Org in their desire to rid all bow seasons of crossbows, regardless of whether there are background constraints that will not allow the hunter to use vertical bows.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m picking up a little gaslighting here. I’ve been pretty clear about my thoughts which include allowing crossbows for people with a disability. I’m not the only one in this thread who has commented the same.

[hunterdon]

Point 1 - the only other options would be LEH for any bull or 3 pt and better. This would remove a portion of the hunters from the landscape. Anything that goes to LEH isn't coming back though.
Point 2 - If its the genes, would that mean the 6pt is destined to be a 6pt from the day it was born? If he had a chance to breed a cow when he was a 5pt, wouldn't his offspring have the chance at a 6?

Don't pretend to know the answers, just creating conversation.

On point 1. I think there can be other options in addition to what you mentioned. In regards to going leh and never coming back.....That's not always the case. Example, Oh about 8 years ago or so, and prior, for many years antlerless whitetail was pretty much all leh. Now for the past several years, antlerless whitetail leh has disappeared completely. In many units now, there is a general open rifle season in addition to late bow only season.

So, leh is not necessarily a no return policy to a general open season. When population numbers bounce back strongly, policy changes will need to adapt. I actually do think elk populations can come back strongly in certain areas given the right conditions. They are very adaptable.

In regards to your question on genetic determination. If the breeding bull is genetically inclined to produce 6 point plus, regardless of his age at the time of breeding his offspring inherits that trait. For example, if a human parent has red hair, his child stands a good chance of having red hair. Of course mother's genes are also a factor here. But, no matter what his age at time of parenthood, his genetic code doesn't change. Same with bull elk. Good question Kevin!

[Ambush]

In regards to your question on genetic determination. If the breeding bull is genetically inclined to produce 6 point plus, regardless of his age at the time of breeding his offspring inherits that trait. For example, if a human parent has red hair, his child stands a good chance of having red hair. Of course mother's genes are also a factor here. But, no matter what his age at time of parenthood, his genetic code doesn't change. Same with bull elk. Good question Kevin!

But if you keep shooting six points, at any age, then there will be fewer bulls and cows around with the six point genetics. Also a mature five point will out compete a smaller younger six point for breeding rights, so the five point genes are passed on more often. Any animal can be selectively bred to exhibit certain traits. That’s all that’s being done by point restrictions.

And I don’t think it is even debatable that a modern cross bow has a much farther effective range in the hands of the general ranks of hunters. If you would like to argue that, I’ve got a contest for you.

[HarryToolips]

But if you keep shooting six points, at any age, then there will be fewer bulls and cows around with the six point genetics. Also a mature five point will out compete a smaller younger six point for breeding rights, so the five point genes are passed on more often. Any animal can be selectively bred to exhibit certain traits. That’s all that’s being done by point restrictions.

And I don’t think it is even debatable that a modern cross bow has a much farther effective range in the hands of the general ranks of hunters. If you would like to argue that, I’ve got a contest for you.

Fully agree on the crossbow comment, my last posted opinion still stands on the matter....has it been quantified that not all bull elk eventually make it to 6 pt? As in, have there been studies conducted on this topic?

[hunterdon]

But if you keep shooting six points, at any age, then there will be fewer bulls and cows around with the six point genetics. Also a mature five point will out compete a smaller younger six point for breeding rights, so the five point genes are passed on more often. Any animal can be selectively bred to exhibit certain traits. That’s all that’s being done by point restrictions.

And I don’t think it is even debatable that a modern cross bow has a much farther effective range in the hands of the general ranks of hunters. If you would like to argue that, I’ve got a contest for you.

I think that's generally what I've been saying about 6 pointers. I never mentioned a single word about archery equipment. Not sure why that came up. So, nothing to argue here.

[Walking Buffalo]

Someone needs to gather the data, crunch the numbers and prove that the regulation change will not effect the desired outcome.
There will be lots of evidence available in the period after the last season shortening.

Without this foundational evidence, hunters will once again be asked to give up just a little bit more in a few years in place of a real solution.

Isn't anybody or any hunting organization actually interested in developing a scientific argument against the continuous reduction of hunting opportunity through government Assumptions?

All the talk here, yet there remains a dire lack of data, just a government proposal mired with an admission that it is based on a furtherance of a failed decision.


Straight up BC boys.
It sounds like you're doing nothing of any consequence.
Just whimpering while getting whipped.

[J_T]

Isn't anybody or any hunting organization actually interested in developing a scientific argument against the continuous reduction of hunting opportunity through government Assumptions?

All the talk here, yet there remains a dire lack of data, just a government proposal mired with an admission that it is based on a furtherance of a failed decision.


Straight up BC boys.
It sounds like you're doing nothing of any consequence.
Just whimpering while getting whipped.

Hmmm, WTF? Stab me in my f-in heart. For a comment like that, it is clear, your neither involved, nor in the know. I've seen your statement for data, and much of the data you mention in various threads is available. And I continually share it. I have neither the energy or desire to keep spitting out statistics on a web site when very few care.

There has been active discussions and work to collect and generate data, to develop funding projects around collecting data, developing funding partnerships, working from the wildlife objective perspective and then from the harvest and opportunity perspective, is an ongoing activity. But sadly, only for a few.

Government staff are neither as experienced, or committed to hunting opportunity as we are. We submit stewardship requests (approx $250k for WK elk) to enhance science behind the decisions.

In short, the defense has been developed. It just isn't palatable to many. and decisions remain political in nature. What is difficult, is getting people to step up and get involved. It doesn't happen overnight. But people need to show a desire and stay committed.

[LBM]

As said before should of left it LEH from the start, from what its saying sounds like GOS hunting is causing the problem.
Hunting should be hunting use the weapon you choose be it bow or rifle, no special season for bow etc.