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Thread: Settle a quick debate...a legal answer?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
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    Golden, BC
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    Settle a quick debate...a legal answer?

    RyoTHC asked a great question and many of you chimed in.

    “You’re hunting last light, shoot an animal and are confident you made a good hit but it runs away, you decide not to pressure it and pull out for the night, returning the next morning and tracking down the animal. When do YOU personally cut your tag if in this situation?”

    I thought I would start a new threat with my answer at the top because I put a bit of time into researching this and I hope the answer helps fellow hunters and outdoorsmen (pretentious of me, I know).

    ************************************************** ********************************
    The Crown has ownership of all wildlife in the Province. (Wildlife Act [RSBC 1996] Chapter 488 s.2(1))

    No one can own or possess wildlife, except under limited circumstances. (s.2(2))

    One exception is for hunters.

    Hunting is an approved method of acquiring a property right to wildlife. (s.2(3)) This right is reserved for those who abide by the statutes and regulations governing hunting and have proved competency in the CORE and PAL programs.

    When you get a tag (LEH or GOS) you are actually receiving permission from the Crown to acquire a future right to a specific animal in a particular region, during a narrow timeframe, of a certain sex, with certain physical characteristics, with a specific weapon.

    When you walk around with your license and tag(s) in your pocket you are carrying proof of your right to pursue a future property interest in wildlife that is otherwise off-limits to others.

    The regulations hunters must follow are not meant to simply restrict your success for the purpose of making it more difficult. Regulations articulate and make clear exactly what property right in wildlife you may obtain. It's similar to when you purchase a home. You don’t sign a Contract of Purchase of Sale with the seller to just buy “any piece of property”. Property has a Parcel Identification Number (PID) and your lawyer reviews the title and ensures you are acquiring the right piece of land in a certain town and neighborhood at the certain time with certain conditions from the correct seller at the right price.

    One of the most fundamental requirements of securing your property right is to pursue the specific wildlife in accordance with the regulations and the specifics of the tag. Once that has been done you MUST also possess the wildlife.

    The Federal Canada Wildlife Act defines possession as
    (a) a person has anything in possession when the person has it in their personal possession or knowingly
    (i) has it in the actual possession or custody of another person, or
    (ii) has it in any place, whether or not that place belongs to or is occupied by the person, for their own use or benefit or for the use or benefit of another person

    Scenario. You pull the trigger and you kill the animal. You see it run 20m and drop. You are high fiving your buddies. The animal is 250m away. At this moment you do not possess the animal. You have possession once you are at the animal and have it controlled (dead) and in your actual custody. You may have heard the common adage that “Possession is 9/10th of the law”. This expression refers to the idea that it is difficult to prove, maintain, or enforce a property right unless you possess the thing in question.

    To conclude this part of the discussion, your property right to that wildlife transfers from the Crown and solidifies in you at the moment that you satisfy two criteria. First, you have pursued and killed the wildlife in accordance with the various and specific regulations that accompany your particular tag. Second, you possess it.

    Now to the main question.


    You kill an animal on the last day of the season and recover it the next day, when the season is over. What effect does cutting your tag have? This scenario hinges on the definition of what it means to “hunt”.

    The BC Wildlife Act defines hunting as: shooting at, attracting, searching for, chasing, pursuing, following after or on the trail of, stalking or lying in wait for wildlife, or attempting to do any of those things, whether or not the wildlife is then or subsequently wounded, killed or captured,

    1. with intention to capture the wildlife, or
    2. while in possession of a firearm or other weapon;

    According to the Act, searching and pursuing wildlife that is wounded or killed with the intention to capture it (to possess it) is hunting. If you hunt outside of the season prescribed by your tag you are committing an offence.

    Cutting your tag without possessing the wildlife appears to be symbolic, at best.

    These are a few thoughts based on my strict reading of the law. In practice COs might follow a more common sense rule and allow you to retrieve the animal on ethical or compassionate grounds.
    I would expect a competent lawyer could make a convincing case for a different interpretation.
    Thanks for reading. Would love to hear your thoughts.


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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Walnut Grove, Langley
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    Re: Settle a quick debate...a legal answer?

    This question pops up from time to time and now as those time I'd suggest! The tag is cut upon "possession" of the game. But you've added a new twist! What if you find the critter the next day and the season is closed. I'd cut my tag for the day prior when it was legal. You haven't at this point broken any laws.

    IF you were stopped by a CO, an honest hunter would have the same story over and over, the truth has a funny way or staying the same, Lies change. Said CO will be trained in reading people and can tell by the state of the animal as to rough time of death.

    Take shit ton of pictures as you search the night of the hunt, you may need them for the morning and to cover your butt!!
    Take a kid hunting its more rewarding than shooting an animal yourself!!

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    2,537

    Re: Settle a quick debate...a legal answer?

    Same can be said about youth season where my question originated.

    3pt shot by youth in last hour of last day.
    not a great shot, but likely fatal.. hunters backed out and returned next morning, which was first day of 4pt only and and youth season ended… I know they tagged the animal for the day prior and I don’t blame them… but as far as legality was concerned it seemed like no matter what they decided they ended up in a grey area at best.

  5. #4
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    Re: Settle a quick debate...a legal answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by tylerduce View Post

    Cutting your tag without possessing the wildlife appears to be symbolic, at best.


    and at worst? need to explore that one a bit
    Glad to say I have hunted Northern BC

    Simon Fraser had pretty good judgement on what he found in BC

  6. #5
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    Re: Settle a quick debate...a legal answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by RyoTHC View Post
    .......
    ....
    not a great shot, but likely fatal.. hunters backed out and returned next morning, which was first day of 4pt only and and youth season ended… I know they tagged the animal for the day prior and I don’t blame them… but as far as legality was concerned it seemed like no matter what they decided they ended up in a grey area at best.
    tough start for the new(er) hunter, will build his ethics for the future
    Glad to say I have hunted Northern BC

    Simon Fraser had pretty good judgement on what he found in BC

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Williams Lake, BC Canada
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    Re: Settle a quick debate...a legal answer?

    hmm you DONT cut your tag until you are in possession of the animal that from a co in the past.

    shoot an animal..and need to search next day AFTER seASON has ended..leave a note in your vehicle describing your intentions..LEAVE YOUR RIFLE AT HOME...DO NOT BE IN THE WOODS WITH A WEAPON WITH SEASON ENDED.
    you do NOT have a weapon..hence you are not hunting but retrieving yesterdays shot ,...and written intentions are STILL BACK in the truck..hence written intentions not excuses made up in the field.
    no weapon...means no hunting ...looking for a deer wounded during a lawful legal after closed season is fine.
    Srupp

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    247

    Re: Settle a quick debate...a legal answer?

    Once you kill the animal it is harvested, and no longer available for other hunters to harvest. Just because you leave it overnight is not really an issue. You should cut the tag as soon as you know you killed the animal, and before you retrieve the carcass. In my experience, CO's will not debate the finer points of property law. They will usually give you their interpretation of the hunting regs. ��

  9. #8
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    Jan 2007
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    Williams Lake, BC Canada
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    14,170

    Re: Settle a quick debate...a legal answer?

    HMMM no..if you have no body you do not have a harvest..what are you tagging? a blood trail...no..thats not taggable..do NOT CUT YOUR TAG WITHOUT A CORPSE..THAT IS AN OFFENCE..PRE TAGGING
    SHORTRange..you are giving advice that contradicts policy/law..
    cheers
    SRUPP

  10. #9
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    Re: Settle a quick debate...a legal answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by tylerduce View Post
    You kill an animal on the last day of the season and recover it the next day, when the season is over. What effect does cutting your tag have? This scenario hinges on the definition of what it means to “hunt”.

    The BC Wildlife Act defines hunting as: shooting at, attracting, searching for, chasing, pursuing, following after or on the trail of, stalking or lying in wait for wildlife, or attempting to do any of those things, whether or not the wildlife is then or subsequently wounded, killed or captured,

    1. with intention to capture the wildlife, or
    2. while in possession of a firearm or other weapon;

    According to the Act, searching and pursuing wildlife that is wounded or killed with the intention to capture it (to possess it) is hunting. If you hunt outside of the season prescribed by your tag you are committing an offence.

    Cutting your tag without possessing the wildlife appears to be symbolic, at best.

    These are a few thoughts based on my strict reading of the law. In practice COs might follow a more common sense rule and allow you to retrieve the animal on ethical or compassionate grounds.
    I would expect a competent lawyer could make a convincing case for a different interpretation.
    Thanks for reading. Would love to hear your thoughts.


    Good post and interesting question. I never actually thought about this and probably never would have unless I found myself in the scenario

    While I am unable to answer with any certainty, I am not sure that recovering an already dispatched animal would fall under the definition of hunting as you interpreted.

    The "whether or not the wildlife is then subsequently wounded, killed or captured" is not saying "regardless of if the animal is looking for is already dead". The key word there is "subsequently" and that is just so if someone is caught on a hunting violation, someone can not say "well, sure, you might have caught attempting to poach animals, but it's not a violation because I haven't killed anything"

    I think that if recovering a dispatched animal does meet the definition of hunting, then we run into larger complications as it would then be illegal to recover and care for an animal 1 hour after sunset. And if that were the case, I think we would have heard a fair deal about people getting in trouble for walking up to anything shot last light.

    As for cutting the tag... geez, yeah I'd feel weird clipping "December 16" on my tag (Region 2) I think if I recovered a deer the day after the season closed, I'd clip the date that I actually shot it. That's just me... not sure if it's the right thing to do.

    You could email your question to the ministry and they would likely be happy to clarify what you should do. Then if you want you can print that out and keep it with your hunting tags to show to a CO... good chance they might be just as confused as us when some of these situations come up and appreciate your diligence.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2022
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    13

    Re: Settle a quick debate...a legal answer?

    Would still take a gun, you don’t know what else has decided to take “possession” overnight.

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