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Thread: Indian band declares Ashnola valley protected

  1. #141
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    Re: Indian band declares Ashnola valley protected

    How come BC is the only province that seems dumb enough to entertain this shit?
    doesn’t seem like many if any other places in North America are tripping over their own two feet to virtue signal their own citizens into poverty and despair.
    Proud member of the Second Nations community.

  2. #142
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    Re: Indian band declares Ashnola valley protected

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Chipman View Post
    I hear you. There has been a lot of divisive mismanagement of the body politic. I agree with you that the larger path we are on is not sustainable economically or environmentally, and hard decisions will be made one way or another. That's a much bigger problem than T&R and an IPCA, mind you, or how RH are going to maintain access.

    The opinion that there should be one country and one law isn't a terrible one. I happen to share it. It's something that's never existed in this country, mind you, it's also not widely held, and our legal system doesn't support it. Given that there are only 24 hours in a day and we have to pick our battles I'm not picking the battle to establish one country, one law. That's a big battle that means risking your life, liberty and property with little prospect of success.

    There is a really good chance that we're headed for more division. The cavalry ain't coming, and if it does it ain't coming to rescue resident hunters and anglers. We need to carve out our own space.

    When you say you don't care anymore, what, exactly, is it that you don't care about? If it's restoration of fish, wildlife and habitat and access to it for all BCers then you and I don't need to talk about this anymore - we've got completely different agendas and I wish you success. If you do care about those issues, well, see above: the cavalry ain't coming. We're outgunned and on our own. We need to figure out which problem we're going to solve and move past the complaint stage.
    I think were on the done part. All caring about our country, people and the future of fish and wildlife has done for me has just caused stress. I will be respectful but will only mind my own business.
    Wish you success also.
    Thanks
    Hunting the promised land

  3. #143
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    Re: Indian band declares Ashnola valley protected

    Quote Originally Posted by RyoTHC View Post
    How come BC is the only province that seems dumb enough to entertain this shit?
    doesn’t seem like many if any other places in North America are tripping over their own two feet to virtue signal their own citizens into poverty and despair.
    Remember there's no shortage of people that have voted in the NDP time + time again . There just might be a answer to your question of dumb enough to entertain this shit !
    "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." Cicero - 55 BC
    ..... The NDP approach: if the facts don't fit your ideology, just pretend the facts don't exist.......

  4. #144
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    Re: Indian band declares Ashnola valley protected

    The FI (first immigrants) play on 'white' collective guilt, and view themselves as forever victims. It's their 'trump card' . . . disagree with anything concerning FI, and you're immediately branded as racist.
    The Federal Liberals will also play the 'trump card' to their advantage as the Conservatives seek to become government again.

  5. #145
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    Re: Indian band declares Ashnola valley protected

    Quote Originally Posted by TheObserver View Post
    I might be mistaken but I think the 3%-97% he is reffering to is the 3% global power elite that make the decisions for government rule and social engineering, vs. The 97% being us the indians and whoever else exists in this melting pot experiment, in the end we will all be f** ked over by "them" as history proves if we keep on this course we are headed. It seems to me and many more would agree worlwide that the powers that be are intentionally destroying the economy, and pretty much every facet of the system so they build up a new one how they see fit which will be total control not just of guns and hunting.

    The "highest court in the land" or literally anything the government or media says cannot be trusted.

    P.s. nevermind on his meaning 3-97% reread that
    If you're asserting that a small elite exercise excessive influence over the majority of us, yeah, I'm with you. It's very clear that happens. It's kind of the history of the world with some eras seeing the small elite have less control, or exercise it more wisely, and other eras when it's a shitshow.

    The media is a for profit corporation, not a truth source (and yes, that includes the CBC). Again, this is well established. That doesn't mean the media is never trustworthy, but you need to be careful and read the cards on the table realistically.

    If you can't trust the highest court in the land you've got bigger problems than the Lower Similkameen Indian Band, their IPCA, and truth and reconciliation. Like I said - a lot of things are going on in this thread, and distrust of the Canadian state is one of them. It is a valid thing to be upset about, but it has limited practical bearing on fish, wildlife, habitat or access to those three things. Pick your battles, right? Even if you want o fight more than one it's good to fight one at a time when you're not winning any of them (and that's where restoration of fish, wildlife, habitat and access to them is right now).
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
    "Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey

  6. #146
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    Re: Indian band declares Ashnola valley protected

    Quote Originally Posted by RyoTHC View Post
    How come BC is the only province that seems dumb enough to entertain this shit?
    doesn’t seem like many if any other places in North America are tripping over their own two feet to virtue signal their own citizens into poverty and despair.

    It all tracks back to contact. In some parts of North America Indigenous people were, in fact, conquered and title to land was extinguished. That never happened in most of BC. First Nations have made their cases, repeatedly, in Canadian courts and won.


    You can describe the response to these legal victories as virtue signalling, but the fact is that Canada is a country of laws, and the government follows the laws, even when it has to be dragged kicking and screaming to do so.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
    "Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey

  7. #147
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    Re: Indian band declares Ashnola valley protected

    Quote Originally Posted by dino View Post
    I think were on the done part. All caring about our country, people and the future of fish and wildlife has done for me has just caused stress. I will be respectful but will only mind my own business.
    Wish you success also.
    Thanks

    Fair enough. Like I said, I hear where you're coming from and have to tell you, frankly, that a guy saying "I'm stressed, don't like the division, and can't see this ending well" is way more valuable to getting T&R sorted out than a guy saying "We conquered them. They need to face facts. This woke BS is getting to be too much".


    1) We're all here. 2) We aren't going anywhere. 3) Someone needs to figure it out. 4) I don't have a lot of faith that Justin or John are up to the task.

    If 4 is true it doesn't make 1,2 or 3 less true.

    Thanks for the good wishes. When you shed some stress come back and contribute. Like I said, you're making some valid points.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
    "Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey

  8. #148
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    Re: Indian band declares Ashnola valley protected

    Quote Originally Posted by 358mag View Post
    Remember there's no shortage of people that have voted in the NDP time + time again . There just might be a answer to your question of dumb enough to entertain this shit !

    Don't forget that the BC liberals all supported DRIPA, and Harper was the first PM to apologize for residential schools. This isn't as clearly a Right/Left divide as some people assume.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
    "Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey

  9. #149
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    Re: Indian band declares Ashnola valley protected

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Chipman View Post
    I'm not missing your underlying theme.

    You are, however, missing some important information that might force you to make some tough choices, and I'm not sure you've done that. It's a long conversation and we won't wrap it up all in a couple forum comments, but if you think there is some sort of 3% vs 97% split on this issue you're sorely misinformed. If you think that 3% of the population is "dictating" terms to the other 97%, again, look out your window or turn on your TV. (I'm not attacking you personally, but you've already admitted in other comments on this thread that you were unaware of some pretty critical facts).

    A lot of what you say is correct. I can't see what it has to do with solving the problem of restoring fish, wildlife and habitat, or maintaining access to it. I think you're pissed that you (like many of us) hold some minority political values that aren't being recognized or empowered. That's a fair position, but it is also one of those "lot of things going on in this thread".

    I'll get back to you on some of the facts you're missing. You can figure out what to do with them.
    You’ve clearly got a good handle on the situation, based on the above and your other posts - so I likely have little to add.
    That written, the 3% to 97% (I think it’s closer to 5% to 95%) has less to do with politics and more to do with blood. The way we are trending now will have the balance of power, land, resources, etc… shifted from the non-natives (95%), to the natives (5%).

    That power shift might not matter to most folks when it comes to back-country access and fish/wildlife management, but what it does to resource extraction will matter to the larger population group when it causes companies to leave in favor of greener pastures.

    The LSIB IPCA declaration makes it clear that all non-LSIB owned forestry, mining, range tenure, guide outfitters, water users, and fee simple property owners days are numbered and or outlawed directly - that means commercial impacts. The people from the 95% of the population that don’t have native blood are going to see and feel direct and indirect impacts of that (and of similar declarations made by other bands in the future), regardless of their political leanings.
    Last edited by Livewire322; 05-06-2022 at 01:55 PM.
    If it cant be done with one shot, it shouldn't be done.

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  10. #150
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    Re: Indian band declares Ashnola valley protected

    Quote Originally Posted by ACE View Post
    The FI (first immigrants) play on 'white' collective guilt, and view themselves as forever victims. It's their 'trump card' . . . disagree with anything concerning FI, and you're immediately branded as racist.
    The Federal Liberals will also play the 'trump card' to their advantage as the Conservatives seek to become government again.

    There's no shortage of people who play the victim card. There's plenty on this thread.

    On the other hand, there's no shortage of Indigenous people who reject playing the victim and instead say "Let's get 'er done". They've proven successful. They're still here, despite everything the Canadian state attempted in terms of assimilation, legislation and treaty making, and they're putting some significant wins on the board.

    It's worth recognizing that reality.

    As for being branded a racist I think it's a good idea to adopt the belief that what other people think of you isn't any of your business. If you do what's right then the people who matter will think we'll of you and those who don't think well of you? They don't matter. You see examples of that every single day on the TV.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
    "Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey

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