Indian band declares Ashnola valley protected

[David]

I think it's doing the work to understand the meaning of the agreement at the time. What does not make sense to me, is if what David posted is correct, and I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he is, why would you need treaties. And why would all first nations be moved onto reserves? At the time if I am correct, they were guaranteed the right to hunt and fish. But does that give them the right to manage wildlife as they are trying to do now? Maybe it's part of the we own the land statement. Don't know and that is the crux of the issue. I guess i should do some research on this.

Honestly, those questions are way beyond me - I can offer opinion, but that would be it.

I can say this - we think of First Nations in the same way we think of Canada - as one big unified thing, but First Nations are individual and distinct.

In the rest of Canada almost all First Nations made treaties with the Government - their problem is they are saying the Government didn't abide by those treaties. In BC we are different - except for the Northeast (Treaty 8 - who are also saying the Government didn't abide by that treaty) and parts of Vancouver Island - we never established Treaties. The Supreme Court (and I'm simplifying here) said "You idiotic Government of BC and Canada, you were supposed to make Treaties - so if you didn't do it then, do it now". So BC First Nations are saying, since you need to make a Treaty with us to do stuff on our traditional land we're going to drive a much harder bargain than those other Nations did 150 years ago".

So you have two different things going on:
First Nations with Treaties saying the government didn't abide by the Treaty
and
First Nations without Treaties who are saying you need to make a Treaty with us, and we are going to bargain hard.
Rightly or wrongly, the courts in Canada are agreeing with the First Nations.

[Rob Chipman]

There are a lot of things going on in this thread, and it's tough to figure out the right way to respond.

A few things to keep in mind are that the relationship between Indigenous peoples in BC and non-Indigenous peoples in BC has not been settled and is in fact a work in progress.

There is no blueprint for how this relationship is going to unfold. What we are (all of us) doing is something that I do not think has been done before, anywhere. The relationship is currently very unhealthy, and getting it to a state of health (however that looks) is the right thing to do.

There is a huge gap in knowledge on many sides - a lot of myth and legend where we need some facts, some understanding and some empathy.

There are not two sides or two teams. There are, in fact, a few million individuals who need to come to terms with the reality in which we exist.

The future that is coming is going to bring a lot of change, and change is scary. At the same time it's worth recognizing and acknowledging that for some of the people involved in this relationship there was already a lot of change that came, and it was scary and unpleasant.


Some of the comments made on this thread are accurate, fact based and reasonable. Some are not well informed and quite emotional (and I detect a lot of fear in some of them).

Fear based emotional reactions are usually not good ones when you've got to work through a difficult relationship.

A better alternative, I think (and feel free to call me crazy) is to figure out which values you really want to commit to, and then figure out how you're going to reconcile those values with the facts.

One thing I know for sure: if this thread is representative of the values and perspectives of resident hunters in BC, we're in a lot of trouble. We're going to be shut out and marginalized. Those future hunters, anglers and outdoors people? Those yet to be born? They will be denied the opportunity to do the things that all of us love and treasure so much, and we will not have done our best to preserve it.

I'm pretty confident that if we can move past fear of change we can actually accomplish something workable. I'm also pretty confident that if we do not move past that fear of change and start influencing the change in a positive way we, resident hunters and anglers, will not be happy with what emerges as this relationship develops.

[TheObserver]

Honestly, those questions are way beyond me - I can offer opinion, but that would be it.

I can say this - we think of First Nations in the same way we think of Canada - as one big unified thing, but First Nations are individual and distinct.

In the rest of Canada almost all First Nations made treaties with the Government - their problem is they are saying the Government didn't abide by those treaties. In BC we are different - except for the Northeast (Treaty 8 - who are also saying the Government didn't abide by that treaty) and parts of Vancouver Island - we never established Treaties. The Supreme Court (and I'm simplifying here) said "You idiotic Government of BC and Canada, you were supposed to make Treaties - so if you didn't do it then, do it now". So BC First Nations are saying, since you need to make a Treaty with us to do stuff on our traditional land we're going to drive a much harder bargain than those other Nations did 150 years ago".

So you have two different things going on:
First Nations with Treaties saying the government didn't abide by the Treaty
and
First Nations without Treaties who are saying you need to make a Treaty with us, and we are going to bargain hard.
Rightly or wrongly, the courts in Canada are agreeing with the First Nations.

You have got to be kidding right? After what we have gone through in the last 2 years you believe the supreme court, or any branch of government for that matter? Sorry not trying to be rude but the writing is on the wall bud. The system lies about almost everything.

Anyways I respect you however much we may disagree.

Good day!

[dino]

There are a lot of things going on in this thread, and it's tough to figure out the right way to respond.

A few things to keep in mind are that the relationship between Indigenous peoples in BC and non-Indigenous peoples in BC has not been settled and is in fact a work in progress.

There is no blueprint for how this relationship is going to unfold. What we are (all of us) doing is something that I do not think has been done before, anywhere. The relationship is currently very unhealthy, and getting it to a state of health (however that looks) is the right thing to do.

There is a huge gap in knowledge on many sides - a lot of myth and legend where we need some facts, some understanding and some empathy.

There are not two sides or two teams. There are, in fact, a few million individuals who need to come to terms with the reality in which we exist.

The future that is coming is going to bring a lot of change, and change is scary. At the same time it's worth recognizing and acknowledging that for some of the people involved in this relationship there was already a lot of change that came, and it was scary and unpleasant.


Some of the comments made on this thread are accurate, fact based and reasonable. Some are not well informed and quite emotional (and I detect a lot of fear in some of them).

Fear based emotional reactions are usually not good ones when you've got to work through a difficult relationship.

A better alternative, I think (and feel free to call me crazy) is to figure out which values you really want to commit to, and then figure out how you're going to reconcile those values with the facts.

One thing I know for sure: if this thread is representative of the values and perspectives of resident hunters in BC, we're in a lot of trouble. We're going to be shut out and marginalized. Those future hunters, anglers and outdoors people? Those yet to be born? They will be denied the opportunity to do the things that all of us love and treasure so much, and we will not have done our best to preserve it.

I'm pretty confident that if we can move past fear of change we can actually accomplish something workable. I'm also pretty confident that if we do not move past that fear of change and start influencing the change in a positive way we, resident hunters and anglers, will not be happy with what emerges as this relationship develops.

You cannot run a business (country) when there is more water draining from the water barrel than going in. The first nations and Canada need to find some common ground because what the FN want is not sustainable. We are pretty close to bankrupt already. What are the FN going to do when they can no longer bite the hand that feeds them.

[Deer_Slayer]

What I say on this crap is F them. Their authority is for their people only. I am not native so I do not abide by their laws. They can govern their own people. Aboriginal law does not apply to non aboriginals so they can go F themselves. Our government better grow some balls and stop drinking Liberal Snowflake soup. I will hunt anywhere in BC that is legal under "BC" law!

[dino]

Your comments while well intentioned are far from the factual truth. They are that of the Left wing. The reality is that when Europeans showed up in North America they were confronted with a bronze age society. First Nations lived on the land but could not defend what they claimed to be theirs. If they could have, they would never have signed treaties or capitulated to the foreign invaders. They could defend small areas from each other, but had none of the modern weaponry the Europeans had. Thankfully for them, the invaders were generous with them and allowed them to remain with conditions. Just take a look at how the Spanish or the Americans dealt with indigenous residents. In some areas they were enslaved or worked to death, or just out right slaughtered. This whole truth and reconciliation thing is far from what it should be. There is no truth , little reconciliation. If you look back on history it is very clear that many people and cultures have been displaced by invading forces, with little or no compensation. But like what has been said earlier, none of us is allowed to discuss the truth. We are just supposed to listen to their narrative and not question it. This country is and has been on a steady decline lately, mostly because of complacency and political cowardice.

Some of The first nation tribes fought brutally with each other here in bc. Land occupants changed many times.

[HappyJack]

The whites brought alcohol, disease infected blankets, and worst of all, religion. They taught the FNs that white people speak out of both sides of their mouths and they have no honour.

[Deer_Slayer]

Actually. I identify as a native. I am transitioning

[scoutlt1]

The whites brought alcohol, disease infected blankets, and worst of all, religion. They taught the FNs that white people speak out of both sides of their mouths and they have no honour.

And this, is why there's really no point in having a discussion.

Let the chips fall where they may..

[HappyJack]

Actually. I identify as a native. I am transitioning

LOL, you're going to be a jingle dancer?