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Thread: Training a pointer- Tips and tricks

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    952

    Re: Training a pointer- Tips and tricks

    You need to pick the books and style that work well for you - and your dog.

    But, my favorite book by far is: https://www.amazon.ca/How-Help-Dogs-...s%2C116&sr=8-5

    After having exactly one pointer, my advice is simple. Don't worry too much. I was so worried I was going to screw something up at the beginning. Don't worry. YOu guys will figure it out. Unless you're looking for a world champion trial dog - just have fun and work together. The dog will love it and it will be an awesome experience. And, your dog will be awesome.

    And from my perspective - the e-collar is the single best piece of dog equipment that I own. These dogs have huge drive and the collar helps you convince them that they need to listen - even when all of their DNA is telling them to do something else.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    14,123

    Re: Training a pointer- Tips and tricks

    Master caster has really good posts in this thread. Crate training is very important. The first couple nights are key, your new pup must get used to sleeping in its crate, not in your bed! No matter how much your pup cries the first couple nights do not take it out the crate and into your bed. This will teach your pup to whine and cry out for you and is just about impossible to cure.
    Keep your commands basic.
    Sit means stay until I release you that way you never have to use the stay command.
    Heal should be your release and come command. Use hand signals with voice commands. Keep it simple speak softly and make all training fun. Enjoy.
    I will be getting a new pup in the next couple months I have not made up my mind on what breed yet but I’m sure the pup will find me.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    175

    Re: Training a pointer- Tips and tricks

    If this is a far ranging pointer, I would recommend an E-Collar with either tracking, or GPS capabilities. Most young dogs, especially the pointing breeds will test your patience by ranging out to a point that you as trainer may feel is too far. The Ecollar is a useful tool to remind the dog to stay in range, and if they get too far out the tracking will allow you to see where they are. Especially if they are locked up on point in heavy cover.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,247

    Re: Training a pointer- Tips and tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by britman101 View Post
    If this is a far ranging pointer, I would recommend an E-Collar with either tracking, or GPS capabilities. Most young dogs, especially the pointing breeds will test your patience by ranging out to a point that you as trainer may feel is too far. The Ecollar is a useful tool to remind the dog to stay in range, and if they get too far out the tracking will allow you to see where they are. Especially if they are locked up on point in heavy cover.
    The dogs I've had in the past haven't ranged overly far unless it was in real open country but as mentioned above I have had times where I thought I knew where and abouts they were but because they were on point in heavy cover I couldn't see them. Sometimes they were within 15 yards of me!

    I have a Dogtra 2500 B&T collar that has a beeper on it that can be heard a few hundred yards away depending on the terrain. Don't confuse the beep mode to the tone mode that only the dog can hear on other e collar models. The beep on that Dogtra is loud. The collar can be set to beep automatically when the dog goes on point while you're hunting,,,,,it'll beep every 8 seconds but you can always use the locator button just to see where your dog is at even when it's on the move at any point in time.

    I've trained my griff to return to me on three taps of the beep button when she's out and about up at my cabin or in heavier brush. Saves the voice.

    If I had a big ranging dog like an English or German Pointer I'd have one with GSP capabilities. There's nothing quite as unsettling as not knowing where your dog is, especially when predators are about,,,,or highways.
    He's NOT your buddy, buddy!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    239

    Re: Training a pointer- Tips and tricks

    The single most important tool you need to have is not an electronical gadget.....it is engagement between handler and dog.Too many dogs disengage from the handler as soon as the enter the field or woods.Sure,you can nick or beep your dog into control but I rather have a dog that wants to stay in contact with the handler while it is working.
    I disagree about dogs having a "natural"range they work in......this is decided by the handler and early training and not the dog.
    Even Sask.Prairie dog can easily learn to work within 30-50 yds in cover without an e-collar but through engagement.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,247

    Re: Training a pointer- Tips and tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by jagen mit DDrs View Post
    The single most important tool you need to have is not an electronical gadget.....it is engagement between handler and dog.Too many dogs disengage from the handler as soon as the enter the field or woods.Sure,you can nick or beep your dog into control but I rather have a dog that wants to stay in contact with the handler while it is working.
    I disagree about dogs having a "natural"range they work in......this is decided by the handler and early training and not the dog.
    Even Sask.Prairie dog can easily learn to work within 30-50 yds in cover without an e-collar but through engagement.
    What I have found in a good partnership is the dog wants to hunt for you and not itself. The terrain generally dictates how far the dog will range. If you're hunting bushy areas with gullies, etc. or if you're grouse hunting along FSR roads where there can be heavy brush the dog will stay closer by as opposed to Chukar hunting in wide open sage brush areas up along the Thompson or Fraser R. where you can easily see your dog a couple of hundred yards away it's fine to let them range.

    The beeper mode on the collar or my whistle allows me to get them back to where I want them to be if necessary in those longer ranging hunting scenarios. You shouldn't need to engage the nick or continuous mode even though they are there at your disposal.

    That being said, I had two Britts I hunted extensively through the 80's and 90's that I never used collars on because they were not near as sophisticated as what they are now. They called them "shock" collars back then and the thought of getting one never entered my mind. I knew squat about them, though. Luckily, there were so many wild pheasants around you just had to let the birds train the dogs. They figured out pretty damn quickly what to do if they wanted to hear some shooting and get to retrieve them.

    You can fully train a dog without them for sure because I did with both my Brits,,,,, but I understand their worth when used properly. They're not inhumane like the originals were,,,, some dog handlers abused them in a big way and that's why they are not allowed to be used in many European countries, I would bet. Trainers now know or should know that they're only meant to reinforce what the dog already knows and just need to be used sparingly to refocus the dog. In fact, for the most part you only need to use the vibration mode to refocus the dog to its task.

    You can definitely tell if one has been used correctly as soon as the owner brings one out. Wouldn't surprise me at all if when some dogs see it they're not too happy about it, whereas others like mine, start wiggling their butt and tail like crazy because they know we're going hunting, hiking, or to a field to train. A lot of the time I don't even bother turning it on unless I forget my whistle.
    He's NOT your buddy, buddy!

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    239

    Re: Training a pointer- Tips and tricks

    I see quite a few dogs at the tests where e-collars are not permitted and the "obedient"dog turns into a lunatic because he knows the handler has no control over them.
    That be the day where I have to have a gadget on my dog to make sure he'll listen when hunting.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    14,123

    Re: Training a pointer- Tips and tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by jagen mit DDrs View Post
    I see quite a few dogs at the tests where e-collars are not permitted and the "obedient"dog turns into a lunatic because he knows the handler has no control over them.
    That be the day where I have to have a gadget on my dog to make sure he'll listen when hunting.
    Never used one on my companions never will.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    239

    Re: Training a pointer- Tips and tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by mastercaster View Post
    What I have found in a good partnership is the dog wants to hunt for you and not itself. The terrain generally dictates how far the dog will range. If you're hunting bushy areas with gullies, etc. or if you're grouse hunting along FSR roads where there can be heavy brush the dog will stay closer by as opposed to Chukar hunting in wide open sage brush areas up along the Thompson or Fraser R. where you can easily see your dog a couple of hundred yards away it's fine to let them range.
    .
    Terrain does not dictate distance.
    Scent cover in area dictates distance.Heavier cover holds scent better and that is why your dog ranges shorter.
    Rainer

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    94

    Re: Training a pointer- Tips and tricks

    Build your pigeon coop, get your pigeons, and get them established NOW. Thank me later

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