Peace Region Moose and Northern Cariboo

[bearvalley]

Mike

I am not sure on that number, the gov will not release those yet. For shits a giggles, let say the success rate is 30%, which would mean roughly 1600 authorizations, ~300 more than what was killed in the Peace on average, including the guides.

If we run the 30% again (which would be high, probably more like 22-25%, with the antler restrictions), that would mean we had ~4350 hunters in the Peace. Not sure of break down between residents and non.

So we go from ~4350 hunters to ~1600 hunters, a loss of ~2750 (again, not sure of non resident hunters in this mix) hunters who spend money in the Peace. That's a loss of 37%. Oh and math is not my subject, so if I screwed up the numbers, correct away!

What this affects, as much as resident hunters, are all the small businesses that have relied on the resident hunters spending $$$ up and down the Alaska Hwy., the small communities like Tumbler, Chetwynd and Hudsons Hope as well as Dawson and FSJ. Its the tumble down affect, so no matter who hunts, the Peace suffers. Yet the GO's will not be affected, in fact they will probably profit because they can now sell their hunts with no antler restrictions, which will probably increase their price. But that's their business, to make a profit. If only that profit stayed here in BC, or at least Canada.

Not against the GO and their business, in fact I worked as a guide for 15 years and that was some of the best falls I ever had. I am really pissed off that the government has sold us out...again. And it will affect you and all other resident hunters in BC as this crosses the Rockies.

At the end of the day, I think people need to focus on the fact that the Government sold out the resident hunters of BC. We can scream and jump up and down about what the GO got and blame the GO, or blame the FN (I live up here and have seen the destruction, it makes me sick...but that should not affect hunters legally hunting) but that should not be our focus. We need to focus on the NDP Government and their sell out of residents and their managing wildlife by Social methods. THAT HAS TO BE OUR FOCUS!!!

Write letters and send them to all government MLA's, including the Liberals and Kevin Falcon. I believe the BCWF has a form letter for ideas. make some noise and stand up, because if you don't, then you have no right to complain. And don't wait for the BCWF, your local club or your neighbor do it for you, you have to do it yourself....or not.

Cheers

SS

Sitkaspruce, I’m probably as pissed as anyone over the decision to reduce the moose harvest and close caribou in 7B.
The first I heard of this proposal was when Zeman leaked what was coming down even tho it was supposed to be confidential information.
If he hadn’t spoke out this would have been a signed and sealed deal before anyone knew.
From the sounds of it it’s probably done but government does need to hear that unwarranted deals like this are strait BS.
Last Friday this was discussed at a Northeast guides meeting and I’ve got some third hand info.
You’ve probably posted as close of numbers as anyone knows right now.
Really, what the hell is 25% when no one knows what the AAH is going to be.
I’d rather have a GOS.
The crunch will come when government throws out what the number of authorizations will be to harvest 1 LEH moose.
If they go hardline and issue LEH at a 1:1 ratio the spillover into 6 North will be brutal with that being the only GOS moose hunt left in BC along with the last of the open season caribou.
Watch the road blockades go up and they’ll be warranted.
If pressure isn’t backed off, the accessible parts of 6 North will be done as far as hunting, just like most of BC is today.
Government waded into this with little thought other than to appease Treaty 8 members.
An interesting point is that when Treaty 8 boundaries were ruled in Court to be the Arctic/Pacific Divide, that boundary moved westward into traditional territory of other First Nations.
The Tahltan stated they did not recognize Treaty 8 title on their territory.
We can thank the NDP and some bureaucrats for this back door deal…..there sure as hell wasn’t any outfitter pushing this and there’s going to be one or two Northeast outfitters that relied on moose & caribou that will be hard pressed to stay in business.

[2chodi]

LEH for moose in region 7B was first talked about in the mid 1990's, but the spike, or fork, or tri-palm regulation based on what was happening in Alaska at the time was instituted instead. Significant rumours of LEH came forward in early summer of 2021 attributed to a single Treaty 8 band — a subsequent meeting with that band put an end to that rumour. To be clear, the "leak" of the current proposal, with some of the details beyond LEH for moose, came at a Fort Nelson stakeholders' meeting and there were subsequent public postings about the proposal. It was at that time that the BCWF felt it was necessary to do a press release and state its opposition to the proposal and the process through which the proposal was developed.

[HappyJack]

GOABC members have been lobbying to have ALL species in the province put under LEH, people better open their eyes to this fact because resident hunters are losing big time. We quickly forget that RESIDENT HUNTERS are supposed to have priority over NON RESIDENTs, so why do we allow guided hunters while residents are severely restricted or shut out of hunts by the LEH system?

[HappyJack]

IN THE WORDS OF A CONCERNED AND ENLIGHTENED RESIDENT HUNTER......
This WILL come to you in one way or another and will affect your recreational way of life. The time to act is now!! Because when you see in in the Caribou, OK, LML or the Island, it will be too late. I fact it is already on the Island, just look at the number of elk LEH numbers. I used to put in for 1-09C when there was 10 tags and a 35 day season. Now it is 3 tags, in three 10 day seasons, with the GO getting 3 and a season from Sept to mid Nov. Population is stable to increasing. Same for region 6 south, used to out in for 6-4, there used to be 10 tags for each of the 15 day periods. Now it is one tag for each of those periods and now they are looking at reducing the 3 day open bull season to one day, one day!!!

We are slowly being destroyed by a thousand cuts, and yet it seems most are waiting for someone else to step up. Can't do that anymore!!

[leadpillproductions]

Sad thing its just about money and looking good to peta type people . just 1 more was to fcvk us resident hunters. What about the people that actual need to hunt moose to actual feed there family. My thought people are going to be doing some midnight runs.

[HappyJack]

Limited Entry Hunting is not a tool that encourages resident hunter opportunity, participation,recruitment and retention. It is a tool that breaks up hunting parties and destroys the socialfactors which are fundamental to the future of hunting. It is one of several tools which can beused to reduce harvest and should be used as a last resort.

ttps://bccf.com/sites/default/files/LEHReviewOct2009.pdf

[Rob Chipman]

Limited Entry Hunting is not a tool that encourages resident hunter opportunity, participation,recruitment and retention. It is a tool that breaks up hunting parties and destroys the socialfactors which are fundamental to the future of hunting. It is one of several tools which can beused to reduce harvest and should be used as a last resort.

ttps://bccf.com/sites/default/files/LEHReviewOct2009.pdf

You missed a letter in that link. It needs an "h" at the front like this: https://bccf.com/sites/default/files...iewOct2009.pdf Thanks for pointing us back to that.


Here's another thought I heard expressed by another member of this forum: LEH can very effectively change who hunts what, and that hurts mentorship and recruitment and can result in younger hunters not knowing how to do the activity properly. It's a very wise way to re-frame it. To paraphrase (and I hope I don't butcher it too badly) if you put a species (say moose) on LEH, ostensibly in order to manage demand, but the chance of success is too low, people switch to or concentrate more on hunting something else (say muley or elk). Long term they stop being moose hunters. If you don't hunt moose with your old man or big brother you don't get moose hunting info from them. When you finally do get an LEH draw you may simply be unsuccessful (not a big deal) but you could also make some mistakes that matter.

Not the end of the world, clearly, but it is another negative to associate with LEH, and a reason to restore populations as the response to demand for hunting opportunity and success while maintaining wildlife.

[IronNoggin]

... We can thank the NDP and some bureaucrats for this back door deal…..there sure as hell wasn’t any outfitter pushing this...

Hey. My Ass Mike - why don't you clarify the query I made regarding your own vested interest in this mess, and those of your cronies whom you claim were not pushing for an increase in their quotas??

While you at it, maybe let us know if you are still Bum Buddies with the likes of Hubbard, Glaicar & Froelitch?
Is Hubbard still persona non grata at the GOABC?
Are you actually still welcome there??

Wondering...

Nog

[Rob Chipman]

I think you could do everyone here a service if you could walk through how the much discussed 75/25 is not actually a 75/25 split (assuming the math does indeed show that).

I'm not sure the math is really straightforward and it's tough to understand without guide-outfitter experience.

Can you take a stab at doing that?

Right now there is a lot of mistrust and anger among some resident hunters towards guides-outfitters, and if we can put that to rest once and for all it would be helpful.

I'm bumping this in case bear valley resounds to Nog's invitation to party.

Collaboration among groups that have *some* shared interests is very critical to achieving the goals of many resident hunters.

Distrust between some resident hunters and GOABC runs deep and wide.

There is lots of semi-vague information floating around, and some of it can be reduced to numbers. Once you reduce something to numbers you can winnow out a lot of bullshit, especially if you do the math in public.

So, is the proposed and (as far as I know, still rumoured but correct me if I'm wrong about that) 75% to RH and 25% to guide/outfitters actually less than 75/25 once you dig in? I'm sure the numbers are a bit complex but I, like many, can follow them if they're set down. What a lot of us are missing is inside info to how guide outfitting works up close and personal.

You could be very helpful to all of us on that bear valley. It's great opportunity for you.

[bearvalley]

Hey. My Ass Mike - why don't you clarify the query I made regarding your own vested interest in this mess, and those of your cronies whom you claim were not pushing for an increase in their quotas??

While you at it, maybe let us know if you are still Bum Buddies with the likes of Hubbard, Glaicar & Froelitch?
Is Hubbard still persona non grata at the GOABC?
Are you actually still welcome there??

Wondering...

Nog

I'm bumping this in case bear valley resounds to Nog's invitation to party.

Collaboration among groups that have *some* shared interests is very critical to achieving the goals of many resident hunters.

Distrust between some resident hunters and GOABC runs deep and wide.

There is lots of semi-vague information floating around, and some of it can be reduced to numbers. Once you reduce something to numbers you can winnow out a lot of bullshit, especially if you do the math in public.

So, is the proposed and (as far as I know, still rumoured but correct me if I'm wrong about that) 75% to RH and 25% to guide/outfitters actually less than 75/25 once you dig in? I'm sure the numbers are a bit complex but I, like many, can follow them if they're set down. What a lot of us are missing is inside info to how guide outfitting works up close and personal.

You could be very helpful to all of us on that bear valley. It's great opportunity for you.

Im too busy working on scheduling to fly resident hunters into lakes this fall to play in the sandbox with you boys.
Gerry Paille can answer how allocation, success factors & quota works Rob, he’s on here as 2chodi.
Matt, why wouldn’t I be welcome at GOABC?
Wondering………