Peace Region Moose and Northern Cariboo

[bearvalley]

The thing is Bearvalley, is that most the GO's in the 7B are not residents. I am not sure the exact numbers, but I believe that most outfits are foreign owned and they have a Canadian as the "Guide Outfitter" and I think a few of those are Americans who hold dual citizenship. So, they really don't give a shit about resident hunters. As long as we don't land on "Their" lake, hunt "their" valley or park at "their" trailhead, they couldn't give two shits about of us and our 486 LEH tags we get. They get 162 tags to sell for an average of ~$8000 US. Not bad for a couple meetings with Government.

A quick update

- It is supposed to be a 2 year "trial" with a review in 2023
- Treaty 8 wishes to get long with their "neighbors"
- Any bull LEH from Sept 1-Nov 15 with rut closure (not sure if that will be all of 7B or just the areas that are already closed)
- Proposed that LEH will be in 2 week increments, so possibly 12 time frames
- Goal is to avoid overlap with Treaty 8 during cultural specific time periods & locations of traditional hunting
- Guide Quota - Based on 5 yr Annual Allowable Harvest(2016-2019) which they claim resulted in 1296 Moose being taken/year the number would be 50/50 (64, but of that 648 for general public that would be split with a Guide Quota of 75/25 - 486 resident, 162 non resident. In other words that would result in a reduction for the general population of roughly 90% opportunity while the GOABC would increase by 40%; TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!
- Compulsory Reporting - query if that would extend to both parties to get proper data, Treaty 8 & General Public; seems unfair to require only one side, unrealistic that
scientific definable value can be obtained; when the numbers are split disproportionately between the populations numbers (Treaty 8 vs General public)

Moving forward

- Bring people together (wildlife working group)
• Invest in wildlife habitat restoration, enhancement, protection
• Invest in research and monitoring
• Conduct post-hunting season management reviews
• Make recommendations for 2024

- new terminology OCAP - Ownership Control Access & Possession being used
- Discussion about harmonizing regulations between Region 6, 7A & 7B
✴ Info that Region 7A does already have some restrictions in the Parsnip area
✴ Region 6 has restrictions as a result of access closures

This is the nuts and bolts of a meeting held last week

Biggest issues are: going to LEH to appease a certain group when there is no wildlife population concerns and the BIGGEST, 25% or 162 animals going to non residents, 40% more than they would usually kill in a year..... And remember, this is from a population of an estimated 45000 moose.

So from this meeting, it sounds like a done deal and that the public "consultation" will be just going through the motions. Still we should all answer the call when it does come out.

Cheers

SS

Here’s a question Sitkaspruce …..what’s the authorization ratio of LEH tags for the 486 moose to be harvested.
1:1 or ……?
As we all know, many times multiple LEH tags are issued per expected moose harvest.
Sometimes 10 fold.
Just asking….you seem more in the loop than guides that are affected by this.

[One Shot]

One item that the article failed to mention is the millions of dollars annually that FNs receive annually from oil and gas royalties and possibly similar from forestry.

[HappyJack]

Don't worry BC resident hunters, if you want to hunt bull moose in the Peace you can always hire a guide outfitter they will have guaranteed moose leh tags while the rest of the peasants will have to pay and enter the lottery. But that isn't so bad you can always hunt spike fork in other regions, well except region 5 you have to win an leh tag for there too, or hire one of the wealthy guide outfitters. Money talks apparently. This LEH for residents and free tags for outfitters seems to be expanding across the province, wont be long till they reach their objective of having everything on leh for resident hunters while they have guaranteed access.

[IronNoggin]

... It’s bullshit you’re making this a resident versus outfitter issue when we all got blindsided.
“ Caught red handed” my ass.

Hey Mike, are you now trying to deny the 75 / 25 % split being pushed by you and your cronies??

Really??

Definitely Red Handed in my books.

Of that 648 for general public that would be split with a Guide Quota of 75/25 - 486 resident, 162 non resident. In other words that would result in a reduction for the general population of roughly 90% opportunity while the GOABC would increase by 40%; TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!

Biggest issues are: going to LEH to appease a certain group when there is no wildlife population concerns and the BIGGEST, 25% or 162 animals going to non residents, 40% more than they would usually kill in a year..... And remember, this is from a population of an estimated 45000 moose.

Nailed it Ken. And those in favor of this travesty as well...

Do you think they’ll still be around if guys like you and IronNoggin get your wish and the guiding business ends?

There’s a small, core group of outfitter haters…..maybe resident hunters need to study the antics of that group.

Get over yourself Mike.

I sure as hell do not hate outfitters. I was a guide in two Provinces before moving to the Arctic, then here.
And I also sure as hell do NOT want to see the guiding & outfitting business shut down as you suggest.
I have numerous buddies still in the business in three Provinces, two Territories and numerous Western States, which I get along with royally btw.

What I do detest are those who see and push for an opportunity when resident hunters are being pushed to the wall.
You cannot deny that is exactly what is happening in this case.
Leads me to wonder if yours is one of the areas up for grabs by the FN's which have expressed an interest in doing so (and just how much you would realize from that?), or if you will simply realize an increase in tag numbers as a consequence of this BS...

BTW: My name has been wide open on this, and many many other forums for years.
You???

Ticked & Very Much Rightfully So,
Nog

[huntingfamily]

Instead of taking our anger out on each other, how about we focus on the disaster the NDP party has been for hunting since they took power!
I'm less worried about the ratio than I am about the loss of the g-bear hunt and a sustainable moose hunt being reduced to leh.
I'm afraid of what we will be seeing in the near future...

[KodiakHntr]

The moose hunt going to leh is exactly the same as losing the grizzly hunt. First it is moose leh, then it is a moose closure.

Putting a sustainable population on leh just to manage people being in the woods in the fall isn’t a reasonable first step…

[ElectricDyck]

Instead of taking our anger out on each other, how about we focus on the disaster the NDP party has been for hunting since they took power!
I'm less worried about the ratio than I am about the loss of the g-bear hunt and a sustainable moose hunt being reduced to leh.
I'm afraid of what we will be seeing in the near future...

Yep so true..fighting over crumbs rather than focusing on the politicians who just keep failing...that said maybe we fight over crumbs because we know the fight is already lost..

[Sitkaspruce]

Here’s a question Sitkaspruce …..what’s the authorization ratio of LEH tags for the 486 moose to be harvested.
1:1 or ……?
As we all know, many times multiple LEH tags are issued per expected moose harvest.
Sometimes 10 fold.
Just asking….you seem more in the loop than guides that are affected by this.

Mike

I am not sure on that number, the gov will not release those yet. For shits a giggles, let say the success rate is 30%, which would mean roughly 1600 authorizations, ~300 more than what was killed in the Peace on average, including the guides.

If we run the 30% again (which would be high, probably more like 22-25%, with the antler restrictions), that would mean we had ~4350 hunters in the Peace. Not sure of break down between residents and non.

So we go from ~4350 hunters to ~1600 hunters, a loss of ~2750 (again, not sure of non resident hunters in this mix) hunters who spend money in the Peace. That's a loss of 37%. Oh and math is not my subject, so if I screwed up the numbers, correct away!

What this affects, as much as resident hunters, are all the small businesses that have relied on the resident hunters spending $$$ up and down the Alaska Hwy., the small communities like Tumbler, Chetwynd and Hudsons Hope as well as Dawson and FSJ. Its the tumble down affect, so no matter who hunts, the Peace suffers. Yet the GO's will not be affected, in fact they will probably profit because they can now sell their hunts with no antler restrictions, which will probably increase their price. But that's their business, to make a profit. If only that profit stayed here in BC, or at least Canada.

Not against the GO and their business, in fact I worked as a guide for 15 years and that was some of the best falls I ever had. I am really pissed off that the government has sold us out...again. And it will affect you and all other resident hunters in BC as this crosses the Rockies.

At the end of the day, I think people need to focus on the fact that the Government sold out the resident hunters of BC. We can scream and jump up and down about what the GO got and blame the GO, or blame the FN (I live up here and have seen the destruction, it makes me sick...but that should not affect hunters legally hunting) but that should not be our focus. We need to focus on the NDP Government and their sell out of residents and their managing wildlife by Social methods. THAT HAS TO BE OUR FOCUS!!!

Write letters and send them to all government MLA's, including the Liberals and Kevin Falcon. I believe the BCWF has a form letter for ideas. make some noise and stand up, because if you don't, then you have no right to complain. And don't wait for the BCWF, your local club or your neighbor do it for you, you have to do it yourself....or not.

Cheers

SS

[Rob Chipman]

Here’s a question Sitkaspruce …..what’s the authorization ratio of LEH tags for the 486 moose to be harvested.
1:1 or ……?
As we all know, many times multiple LEH tags are issued per expected moose harvest.
Sometimes 10 fold.
Just asking….you seem more in the loop than guides that are affected by this.

I think you could do everyone here a service if you could walk through how the much discussed 75/25 is not actually a 75/25 split (assuming the math does indeed show that).

I'm not sure the math is really straightforward and it's tough to understand without guide-outfitter experience.

Can you take a stab at doing that?

Right now there is a lot of mistrust and anger among some resident hunters towards guides-outfitters, and if we can put that to rest once and for all it would be helpful.

[canishunter22-250]

It would sure be nice if in addition to the 'LEH Any Bull' they threw out a token 2-point season just so everyone could have a chance to go out hunting every fall (even if it was a long-shot, low-odds hunt). Not that many moose would get shot but it would ensure that the outdoors folks who just want to enjoy the wilderness and take their guns for a walk could at least be able to do that on the 19 years out of 20 that they don't get drawn.

I've always been in favour of points restrictions to meet the allowable harvest because for a given number of moose killed it allows the maximum number of people to get out there and enjoy this amazing province. Ya, sure, you might run into more folks out hunting in the same area but in the grand scheme of things it is far better for our culture and society as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately the intent of the FN seems to be to limit the number of people on 'their' landscape so this is likely not in their plans. Alienating people from the land (regardless of race) isn't going to lead anywhere good for greater society.