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Thread: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (if a"

  1. #71
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Jag enlighten yourself. Nicola group used "Westcoast environment law" did they not? Go peruse the website check out the "Wokeness" look up there supporters and clients. Decide for yourself where the firms world view comes from and is that actualy congruent towards sportsmen.
    There ideology is rooted in marxist philosophy. Compassionate Conservation is another branch of the same tree. Not a worldview that meshes well with hierarchical white guys exploiting the land and it's resources. This whole wokeness started in law ffs.
    It is well to try and journey ones road and to fight with the air.Man must die! At worst he can die a little sooner." (H Ryder Haggard)

  2. #72
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagermeister View Post
    I wonder how much of that went to the Nicola Valley in their law suit against Douglas Lake Cattle Company?
    Another question. Dead dog, are you associated with the guides and outfitters in BC in any capacity? I ask the same of you Walking Buffalo?
    No.
    While I did live in B.C for a bunch of years, testing out Ourea's hunting and fishing holes,
    I am an Albertan that has a background in wildlife management and ethology.

    While I have been a member of AFGA and I am a life member of the WSFAb and the WSF, I purposefully remain strongly impendent from any particular organization to act and speak feely. The WSFAb did offer to hire me during the battle with Bianchet, which I turned down.

    I have had no dealings with GOABC, I have caused APOS a few headaches on a few different issues.

  3. #73
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Quote Originally Posted by horshur View Post
    Chip..you were told the influence of Fiesta in Alberta and subsequent consequences...so obviously he has had some influence at the least in Alberta. NO?
    Bianchet's main influence lies within the scientific realm, biologists and such...
    Get a bunch of provincial biologists on board and away you go....
    It only takes getting one senior staffer to "influence" many subordinates to agree... livelihoods are at stake.

    Then if just one or two interest groups tag along, with or without membership knowledge or support, and policy change quickly gains momentum.

    BCWF seems inclined to get the ball rolling, deciding to decide later whether or not to try and stop it.

  4. #74
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Quote Originally Posted by horshur View Post
    Chip..you were told the influence of Fiesta in Alberta and subsequent consequences...so obviously he has had some influence at the least in Alberta. NO?

    I was told that we'd flatten the curve in 14 days too.

    What I *think* I was told about this topic was that Festa-Bianchet proposed changes in Alberta that were not adopted, that he has flawed science, that he's a compassionate conservationist and an anti-hunter who wants to limit hunting opportunity, that he shouldn't be platformed because allowing people to hear him will lead to bad things, that his plan is a good way to screw guide outfitters, that allowing him to speak is some sort of proof that someone or a group of someones at BCWF are some sort of green decoys....did I miss anything?

    I was also told that there may or may not be something fishy going on, but that pretty much describes a regular Thursday

    I have no idea if or what influence he had in Alberta.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey

  5. #75
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Good to hear you were listening
    It is well to try and journey ones road and to fight with the air.Man must die! At worst he can die a little sooner." (H Ryder Haggard)

  6. #76
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Quote Originally Posted by horshur View Post
    Good to hear you were listening


    In terms of someone being an anti-hunter, I'm not sure of you're aware to the proposed trophy hunt import ban in the UK. The idea, obviously, is that trophy hunting is clearly bad, evil, not very good, and anything that can be done to eliminate must be embraced by all good people. Same old story. We've heard it a million times.

    I know about it because I follow a bunch of wildlife bios on social media, and over the years I've become aware of a lot of UK wildlife bios/conservationists (I split them up because not all the people I follow are academics - some do non-academic conservation work).

    It is a very different world over there, and a lot of the conservation and wildlife science that those guys do is in Africa. There are some epic online battles between anti-trophy hunting/animal rights activists, on the one side, and these wildlife bios/conservationists, on the other. Nothing new there, but you can imagine that the anti-TH/ARAs continually demonize the other side as pro-trophy hunting lobbyists who are only in it for the blood money. Pretty standard story, right?

    Their proof is that the wildlife bios/conservationists point to science that shows that well regulated trophy hunting, informed by science, (surprise, surprise) is clearly and demonstrably a positive for wildlife and habitat. Again, it's the same logic that we run into here (that is, no logic at all, and no evidence at all).

    The anti-TH/ARAs won't buy that argument and are completely in support of the proposed trophy import ban.

    The wildlife bios/conservationists are very much opposed to the proposed ban because they recognize the benefits of hunting. They've created an open letter of opposition to the trophy import ban that an increasing number of scientists have signed, and the letter says things like:

    "Contrary to the claims of some Western celebrities and animal rights campaigners, trophy hunting can and does deliver a variety of significant conservation and development benefits";

    "
    Certainly, poorly managed trophy hunting can have harmful impacts, but it remains true that well-managed hunting has demonstrably improved the conservation status of multiple threatened species...";

    "
    Indeed, where trophy hunting has been subjected to bans, wildlife has often suffered...";

    "
    And sadly, the UK’s trophy import ban, as currently proposed, will do little or nothing to address these problems where they occur, targeting good and bad hunting operators alike, alienating those communities who generate revenues from well-managed sustainable hunting...";

    "
    Botswana, Namibia, Tanzania and Zimbabwe are 4 of the 5 top-performing countries in the world for megafauna conservation and all use trophy hunting to support their success.";

    "
    Across 8 leading hunting destination countries, hunting supports at least 53,400 jobs...";


    These statements are endorsed by a wide range of wildlife bios, and while they deal with Africa more than they do with BC bighorns, they don't exactly indicate an opposition to well regulated, sustainable hunting that is informed by science. They don't seem anti-hunting at all.

    Now, I don't have the latest version of the letter, but here's the kicker: Festa-Bianchet tweeted out that he had signed the letter opposing the import ban. So, yeah, he could be an anti-hunting compassionate conservationist (I haven't seen that evidence yet, aside from links to papers and forums) but he did just sign and promote an open
    letter that says regulated, sustainable hunting informed by science is a net positive and should not be suppressed.



    This is the letter: https://iucnsuli.org/wp-content/uplo...-smart-ban.pdf





    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey

  7. #77
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    I cannot even pretend to be a scientist..too dumb. But it is clear that scientist are also waking up to some reality regarding current political climate and it's attack on actual science/truth.
    It is well to try and journey ones road and to fight with the air.Man must die! At worst he can die a little sooner." (H Ryder Haggard)

  8. #78
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Quote Originally Posted by horshur View Post
    I cannot even pretend to be a scientist..too dumb. But it is clear that scientist are also waking up to some reality regarding current political climate and it's attack on actual science/truth.

    Yeah, same here.

    When you watch UK scientists battle with nut bar ARAs/anti-TH guys the lines get really clearly drawn. Kinda like listening to Jesse Zeman and Rebeka Breder on CKNW - they're talking about saving caribou by shooting wolves and Breder sums it up by saying "at the end of the day the numbers don't matter". Friggin' classic emotion driven argument. Lotta that going around these days, and look where it's gotten us.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey

  9. #79
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    Exclamation Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    6:00 pm TONIGHT Folks.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNNhzkJ-UU&feature=related

    Egotistical, Self Centered, Son of a Bitch Killer that Doesn't Play Well With Others.

    Guess he got to Know me

  10. #80
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    I did some more digging on Festa-Bianchet. One source was a recent podcast where he talked about mountain goats.


    For an apparently anti-hunting compassionate conservationist he made some strange remarks. For example, he pointed out that while in many areas goats can't take a heavy harvest, in other places, including ones where they've been introduced and are really thriving, they're like white tails and can handle 14%-15% annual harvest.

    He also described hunting goats as a great way to experience a really challenging mountain ungulate hunt that can be very rewarding.

    I have never heard anti-hunting compassionate conservationists ever say that sort of thing. Usually they're kind of....anti-hunting. Maybe I'm missing something.

    Tonight should be good. Get registered and show up, and keep your eyes open for the next one. Remember that you can find all the past webinars on BCWF's Youtube channel.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey

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