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Thread: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (if a"

  1. #21
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Quote Originally Posted by horshur View Post
    Zeman retweets him regularly...
    I spoke with Jesse back when this was hot in Alberta.
    He lost any respect when he answered that he didn't care about the validity of the science regarding Bianchet and sheep, the reason B.C. went to full curl for bighorns ( Genetic harm with Coltman taking the scientific spotlight, which he has since recanted).

    "Dr. Marco Festa-Bianchet will present on whether hunting can exert selective pressure on a species, and what, if anything, should be done."

    Thus strikes me as laughable.
    His whole career this century has been focused on pronouncing current hunting models, and especially "trophy" hunting as conclusively harmful to the species and ecosystem.
    Tip toeing into the BCWF.
    Compassionate Conservation. learn what it is.

  2. #22
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Buffalo View Post
    A flashback for sure.... though the real debate was several years before this thread.


    As you can see Rob, while Bianchet was claiming that Alberta had to change its 4/5 rule to a full curl general season , that full curl would solve the hunting induced genetic harm problem, he was claiming that B.C. had to go from a full curl general season and very limited LEH because of hunter induced genetic harm....

    A snake is a snake, whether in Alberta or B.C.

    HengeveldJWM11.pdf (usherbrooke.ca)
    Yeah, I bet its a flashback - I saw lots of your tracks in that forum!

    I'm not sure I see the whole pic yet. I'm still at the stage of it could make sense, but there seem to be a lot of recommendations based on "This may work..." rather than "Let's do a control group here and a test group there", plus I'm still new to a lot of sheep terms and basic sheep knowledge.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
    "Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey

  3. #23
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyJack View Post
    So if he is trouble why is the BCWF giving him a forum to spread his bs? Enlighten me please. It sounds like Alberta had a real battle to counter his science.
    Some people think that the solution to information they disagree with is to suppress the information and the speaker.

    Some people think the solution to information they don't agree with is more information. I think a quick look out the living rom window or a short time watching the news will tell you which way is best.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
    "Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey

  4. #24
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Quote Originally Posted by bearvalley View Post
    Sure would be a good way to screw over outfitters if you could get the full curl rule thrown out and ditch LEHís or if an LEH season comes into play carry on with over authorizations.
    Thereís probably more than one snake at play here.
    You should expand on who the snakes are, what they're planning and who changes LEH rules. I'll wager it'll be a funny story
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
    "Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey

  5. #25
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Quote Originally Posted by bearvalley View Post
    Too bad the BCWF hadnít scheduled a joint webinar with Marco Festa-Blanchet and our sheep and goat specialist Bill Jex.
    It would be interesting to hear Bills take on Blanchets theory and if he feels itís a concern in BC to only shoot full curls.
    Duly noted. We've got 13 out so far and don't plan on stopping.

    For anyone wanting to hear a little Bill Jex WSS has an hour and a half talk with him from last summer : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWJA2ZFKz_w

    Lotta good stuff on WSS's YouTube channel if anyone wants some free knowledge.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
    "Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey

  6. #26
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Chipman View Post
    You should expand on who the snakes are, what they're planning and who changes LEH rules. I'll wager it'll be a funny story
    Not my style Robbie Boy.
    That said you might not get the giggles you’re expecting.

  7. #27
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Chipman View Post
    Some people think that the solution to information they disagree with is to suppress the information and the speaker.

    Some people think the solution to information they don't agree with is more information. I think a quick look out the living rom window or a short time watching the news will tell you which way is best.
    Who's idea was it to give Biachet a platform and megaphone at the BCWF?

  8. #28
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Chipman View Post
    Yeah, I bet its a flashback - I saw lots of your tracks in that forum!

    I'm not sure I see the whole pic yet. I'm still at the stage of it could make sense, but there seem to be a lot of recommendations based on "This may work..." rather than "Let's do a control group here and a test group there", plus I'm still new to a lot of sheep terms and basic sheep knowledge.
    What could make sense?

    Don't be naÔve.
    I mean this with sincerity, as most do not see the big picture here.
    Bianchet is looking for B.C to be the control group.
    His desire is for Compassionate Conservation to be applied globally.


    I have spent thousands of hours in this battle.
    I have shown many people the proof that allowed them to understand the truth, if they were willing to invest a little themselves.
    This is much too large and important to be dealt with on a forum or in a short video chat question period.
    It is very easy to contact me.

    This can is full, and they are not worms inside.
    Be very careful when opening.

  9. #29
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Buffalo View Post
    What could make sense?

    Don't be naÔve.

    I probably expressed it poorly. It's not an endorsement of anything (aside from the most basic premise) that Dr. Festa-Bianchet is saying. It's a comment on my current state of understanding this argument.

    For example, if someone says "If you only shoot 4 pt mule deer you'll end up with a bunch of 3 pt mule deer because points are genetic and if you remove 4 pt genes you won't get 4 pts" I say "Hmm. That *could* make sense. What's the argument?"

    Same thing is someone says "Rams that get big early, before they spread their genes, don't get to spread their genes, and that means smaller rams" I say "Hmm. That *could* make sense. What's the argument?"

    I haven't looked at the argument deeply enough yet, so the failing is mine. But, as in all things, until I look at the information I am, by definition, uninformed. That applies to everyone.

    The fact that you say you've spent a lot of time looking at the argument and find a lot of flaws? That's one of the first steps for me to get a better understanding of the argument. And let's face an obvious fact: if I didn't post this webinar, and you didn't respond, and I didn't bring up control group, I would never have heard you say "BC is his control group", so this is absolutely worthwhile.

    I don't know where you stand on the free speech issue (and it's very complex and a rabbit hole) but I'm a believer that letting a wide audience hear something results in a small part of that audience potentially being very critical of critical of the something that is heard (and in a positive, informed way). Yes, a 1 1/2 hour presentation with 30 minutes for questions will not put the issue to bed, but the benefits of it are, without question, worth it.

    In this short thread, before the webinar has even started, we've raised at least three very important issues.

    That's why the "Don't let Joe Rogan spread misinformation about vaccines" argument is doomed to fail.

    We're both easy to contact and we should both share information....widely. You and me knowing conclusively what's wrong with the world doesn't fix the world. We need a bunch of people to fix even the smallest problem. Neither of us have the bandwidth to do it without everyone else.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
    "Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey

  10. #30
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    Re: BCWF Webinar "When does selective hunting lead to evolutionary change and what (i

    Quote Originally Posted by bearvalley View Post
    Not my style Robbie Boy.
    That said you might not get the giggles you’re expecting.
    Oh, I know your style! That's why I poked you
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
    "Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey

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