'Heavier Optics saves you walking' .... Do they? (sheep/goat)

[300rum700]

helpful comment.

Like my subject heading says, I am trying to figure out if the extra glass is worth it. If it can save me walking a couple km's in the mtns that's less water, less energy, and less time wasted.
Having never been up there, I am curious if the bigger objective is a nice to have vs. a need to have. I feel that it is a need to have when hunting sheep to be able to dial in to 60x and not have the drop off in quality.

I am not a big fan of paying a premium for a brand. Like buying a BMW or a mercedes....I am more of a Toyota kind of guy. I feel like Swaro is the BMW and Kowa is the toyota, which is funny b/c it's the same European vs Japanese manufacturer debate.

No the bigger objective is not a need to have on max magnification. The only real way to save walking is to buy quality glass and no it’s not a linear curve for cost vs quality, the above comparison is from a non HD sts vs a Ed kowa, apples to grapefruit. Put it next to the atx and the results won’t be the same.

[dapesche]

No the bigger objective is not a need to have on max magnification. The only real way to save walking is to buy quality glass and no it’s not a linear curve for cost vs quality, the above comparison is from a non HD sts vs a Ed kowa, apples to grapefruit. Put it next to the atx and the results won’t be the same.

I bought the 65atx and compared them. I am returning it. I then borrowed a friend's 65sts HD and took those comparison photos.

I was going to do the same photos for comparison with the 65 atx but because you need to screw the atx together I didn't want to risk scratching it and making the return not possible.

With my eye, I could see the numbers on the clock that was in the carport of that garage in the pictures I linked to. With the kowa I could see the numbers on the clock amd the kowa seem to be more 'contrasty'. The swaro showed the numbers but they were a bit more blurred.

Swaro's eyepiece was nicer and the fov of view was better but is it worth the extra 3k. For me it wasn't and that's why it's going back.

[dapesche]

The gold standard for an optics kit os 10x42 binos and a 20-60x 65 spotter. You’ll find 90% of guys in the mountains with this combo, bigger of either won’t save you any walking you’ll just be carrying more weight. If I were to change either of the two I’d go with 15x56 binos but they’re limited to tripod use only.

Makes sense. Thanks

[mod7rem]

How do you find the brightness at max magnification?

I have a vortex razor 65mm and max magnification (48x) brightness is not that great. The exit pupil is just so tiny at that magnification. I checked out a Swarovski 65mm and found it a bit too dim as well at 50x or higher.

Curious if you saw a noticeable improvement with the 77mm

The brightness at 60x is definitely better with the 773 vs the 663 that I had before. But I have no way of putting any kind of value to it. Most of the viewing for me is spent in the 25x to 45x range with this scope, but it’s very usable at 60x with good conditions.

It’s also not just a bigger objective that you get with the 773/774. It also uses the newer wide angle zoom eyepiece.

The 773/774 Prominar uses the 25-60x TE-11WZ eyepiece. It has two XD lenses so it’s a newer generation eyepiece.

The 663/664 uses the TE-9Z zoom eyepiece.

[mod7rem]

You aren't giving much up in size and weight if you step up to Kowa 773. The 773 is only half an inch longer and roughly half a lb. heavier (if I read it correctly). The 883, roughly another inch and another half lb. beyond the 773. I think the 773 would be a good compromise in performance vs additional bulk. The magnesium body gives the Kowa a great weight advantage over its peers. I think smallfry14's 80 would be about 57oz vs 46 for the 773? If you're anywhere near Cranbrook you're welcome to come and compare my 773 to your current scope.

I agree. The 773/774 has Magnesium body and chassis style like the 883/884, and uses the same newer wide angle zoom eyepiece 25-60x TN-11WZ.
The 663/664 uses a polycarbonate body, and the older TN-9Z 20-60x zoom eyepiece.

But I believe both models use XD lenses in the scope body. Not the pure fluorite crystal lenses like in the 883/884 and 553/554.

[dapesche]

You aren't giving much up in size and weight if you step up to Kowa 773. The 773 is only half an inch longer and roughly half a lb. heavier (if I read it correctly). The 883, roughly another inch and another half lb. beyond the 773. I think the 773 would be a good compromise in performance vs additional bulk. The magnesium body gives the Kowa a great weight advantage over its peers. I think smallfry14's 80 would be about 57oz vs 46 for the 773? If you're anywhere near Cranbrook you're welcome to come and compare my 773 to your current scope.

thanks for the offer. I am in nelson. Bit of a long drive.

Buying this swaro is turning into a costly mistake. returning the damn thing ain't cheap.

[Elkaddict]

thanks for the offer. I am in nelson. Bit of a long drive.

This time of year ya, I hear you. No expiration date on the offer. If you haven't pulled the trigger yet and find yourself in this neck of the woods in warmer weather by all means, look me up.

I've thought about this a couple of times,...... it would be cool to get some members together on a mountain somewhere for an "optics evening". Everyone bring what you use, set them up and have a gear comparo. Could be lots of fun.

[stoneramhunter]

interesting chats on optics i have a swaro spotting scope had it for a long time. to me the i would be interested in the the differences at early morning while light level is low and that magic time just before the sun is gone. Ive hunted sheep for many years with 10 x 42 swaro and my swaro spotting scope. i believe it has made the difference in my sheep hunting worth the weight to me.

[dapesche]

This time of year ya, I hear you. No expiration date on the offer. If you haven't pulled the trigger yet and find yourself in this neck of the woods in warmer weather by all means, look me up.

I've thought about this a couple of times,...... it would be cool to get some members together on a mountain somewhere for an "optics evening". Everyone bring what you use, set them up and have a gear comparo. Could be lots of fun.

Be good if there was a goat or sheep count again.
I'm sure between 20 hunters and helpers you'd have a pretty good assortment of brands and magnifications.

[dapesche]

interesting chats on optics i have a swaro spotting scope had it for a long time. to me the i would be interested in the the differences at early morning while light level is low and that magic time just before the sun is gone. Ive hunted sheep for many years with 10 x 42 swaro and my swaro spotting scope. i believe it has made the difference in my sheep hunting worth the weight to me.

Not sure if you looked at these pictures yet that I shared.
https://imgur.com/a/bmc5TqB

At 20x you can see the van and carport to the top left.
I was going back and forth between the kowa and the 65atx trying to notice a difference at twightlight and into darkness.

I focused on the licence plates and the kowa was again sharper. There was something that was a bit bright on the side of the house that was cedar coloured and I kept going back and forth to see if that coloured popped better with either of them and there wasn't a noticeable difference. At that point I made the call to return it. I wanted to do some comparison photos with the 65atx like I did with the 65ats but I didn't want to scratch the atx and make it unreturnable.

Another observation.
I seemed to be able to nail the focus better with the kowa and I think that's due to it being noticeably sharper.

I'm sure you've been there before when you are cycling the focus trying to find the sharpest image.

In my comparison pics I may have gotten the focus wrong with the 65ats and focused nearer to me.

I think the biggest thing is that both swaro and kowa are excellent. For me, the swaro wasn't worth the extra cash for me and I'll look for a 773.

Speaking to a kowa dealer out of the US, he mentioned an upgraded 66 is in the works. He expected a test model this year and it didn't show so he expects that it might be a 2023 release.