Page 5 of 16 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 156

Thread: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6,530

    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by twoSevenO View Post
    agreed - And people are hunting more and more off the beaten path nowdays. Everyone is into the backcountry style of hunting now it seems.
    Agree on the doe/cow draws as well ... i do not support that one bit. I'd rather pay twice as much for my deer tag if it meant no doe tags were allocated, if they are doing it from the generating of revenue point of view.
    I don't know if I agree wit the cancelling of doe/cow.
    Certainly if a population tanks, then yes, to help it recover.
    Example, a bad winter kill that we have no control of.
    But, if a population is slowly decreasing, then I believe the "causes" to that have to be figured out, and then see what
    route to go (still might include a doe closure for a time, but certainly not permanently if they do recover)
    There is too many studies on that that confirm that you need a proportional amount of all as Warnniklz describes.

    And the only time a see a point restriction really help create big antlered game (genetics permitting) is when you have a
    point restriction and a full on LEH hunt to limit hunters.
    I am not prepared to sit at home for several years and hope i get drawn.
    Besides, out leh system might mean some win yearly and some could sit at home for the next 20 years.
    Certainly not a way to create hunter recruitment and if we dont, its as good as saying good bye to the hunting heritage in
    short order if the province actually only had a handful of hunters anymore.
    (ie, look at the gun laws and would some of these new bills become passed if over 50% of Canadians owned guns?)

    What I will fully agree with is, todays hunter is certainly getting out of their vehicles more.
    They are hiking in.
    And they have become certainly more efficient!
    Example, I was looking up an elk study from the past, and i was amazed that virtually every bull that was tagged,
    did hit the dirt by hunters, not preds.

    We are certainly more efficient, but I am fairly certain we are not the main cause of declines.
    However, as in my OP, if an area does become over saturated by hunters, can it effect the area, its numbers and its quality?
    I am starting to think it certainly can.
    Sort of why I asked if R5 will open again to open up some room for hunters to expand, not crowd up and actually create an
    impact!!

    I will say it one more time, did they consider the impacts to surrounding MU's in R3 when they closed R5.
    Did they ever consider that it could have a negative impact on some of these MU's?
    I can certainly see why some groups do think that it has!

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Region 0-1
    Posts
    1,481

    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    If you want to protect big bucks and ensure those genetics are being passed on shut deer down in every region starting Nov 1. How many would be on board for that? Personally I dont think the reg5 closure has anything to do with what's going on in other regions. I live on the border of 5 and 3.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    3,280

    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    Firstly, i have no idea where you are coming from.
    The mileage thing, even more confusing (you haven't had a stroke lately have you??)

    Is it a complaint.....I don't know maybe.
    My concern is that there are now several groups, FN, Cattle guys, and resident hunters complaining.
    The FN are talkin full out closures on rotation amongst themselves right now that they most certainly will take to the Ministry.
    Sure, they want closures, after all, it does not apply to them.
    If it did, they would drop it hat and ask for for further restrictions, again, because it wouldn't apply to them.
    And if it did, well, they will just do what they want anyways without fear of prosecution.
    The Cattleman (which i guess might be you???) are involved because there certainly has been issues with hunters on
    grazing land and destroying it in the past with quads and atv and the local dirt bike clubs.
    So, in that regard, i know why they are now involved now.
    And the problem behind it is, all the extra hunters that have now hit the area.
    Years ago, hunters showed up less in #'s and they didn't use quads, so the nearby ranches tolerated it quite well, and all
    got along.
    But, its the whole bunch of new hunters hitting the area that is causing the issues and concerns.
    I wasn't complaining, only stating what is occurring right now and how different the changes are.

    And as for the Long time hunters of the area, they are concerned about the lack of mature bucks, the amount of traffic that
    has showed up, and they are talking about Restrictions to rectify it.
    And as i said, it sounds like these folk want to see the "any buck" season removed.

    What concerns me more, is that the Ministry goes to the "close it for 10 days also" scenario.
    I could care less about the any buck, but i am not against it either.

    In which case, it means more area closed during that time frame.
    That means hunters being pushed elsewhere again, so on and so forth.

    I am only communicating to folks that care on HBC as to what is going on in a few of the MU's and what might be coming.
    Not sure what the complaints are in that.
    But carry on, you points definitely contribute to making things better for RH in BC.
    it is one mule deer limit for province..used to be three if you got a doe draw and moved regions. Regulations are fine. There is always a thread at the end of the season for those who did not fulfull there dreams and how it is someone elses fault. Watched this for almost twenty years now and they were bitching back then when Mule deer numbers were much stronger. It has nothing to do with seasons it has been said so many times so many ways. Regulation change may appease your delusion that things have not changed but they have. The change was well on its way when the hunting was so good only a few years ago.
    It is well to try and journey ones road and to fight with the air.Man must die! At worst he can die a little sooner." (H Ryder Haggard)

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    242

    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Just some context questions:

    when did the closure in R5 start?
    what was the reasoning behind closing the season during the rut?

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Williams Lake, BC Canada
    Posts
    13,105

    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    hmm watching this slow motion train wreck here for decades...lots of holes in the bucket to drain the resources..
    too many roads everwhere here..access is virtually unlimited..and most rd systems back onto the next with less than 3 kms between them..
    nothing has been done to deal with predators..
    4 legged ones..wolves..cougars..bears..both black and grizzly..numbers are literally exploding..with no balls by government to deal with this issue..too many Miley Cyrus wanna be..predators both 4 legged and 2 legged use these vast openings..and line of site that allow spotting of game and then rapidly closing the distances..
    these rds even when closed doesnt affect indians..there literally is no longer safe refuges for game animals
    the indian population does not know how to hunt predators..nor are they willing to learn nor even try.
    having the vast R5 region specled with rez is certainly not helping..hunting anything 24..7..365..a year..places that dont hold rez..ie Cariboo mts has access rds and cheap fuel doesnt help
    having 70 dollar steaks makes some think hunting is inexpensive access to protein..ya sure..places i never would expect hunters im seeing 8 9 10 camps....
    COVID has influenced many if they cant go to Hawaii...go to Horsefly hunting..out of the house...
    there are lots of pressures on our game numbers..these pressures from ALL SOURCES have only increased and have bit by bit taken a bite out of numbers of big game numbers...all the above issues must be addressed..ALLof them..
    the fires have also displaced where game can currently survive..
    10 years ago it would not be unreasonable to see 50 deer in 1` day at this time of year...
    yesdterday seen 13 camps of hunters..thousands of hecta.of burned forest and only a couple of sets of tracks in the recent snow..

    lots of tire tracks going into every track/trail..opening..
    actually never even seen a grouse..hmm just a strangly cut up moose..no nose no tongue..lots of wasted meat on the bones feeding ravens/crows/BIG EAGLES.
    no one willing to make the tough calls...
    steven

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6,530

    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    If you want to protect big bucks and ensure those genetics are being passed on shut deer down in every region starting Nov 1. How many would be on board for that? Personally I dont think the reg5 closure has anything to do with what's going on in other regions. I live on the border of 5 and 3.
    Its not so much that R5 is causing problems for "all" other Regions.
    That was never a concern. (from my point of view)
    It was that the R5 would cause issue for some of the MU's bordering it that belong to other Regions.
    And for the most part a few R3 MU's.
    And the effects would be hunters over saturating these MU's due to the closer.
    And most of the hunters i am speaking about are the folks from the LM/Island.
    Nov 10 thru 20th with Remembrance Day is a big event for many hunters that pursue Deer, as the holiday affords them extra
    days to hunt, compared to the normal 2 day weekend.
    It used to allow then the extra time to travel further than they would on a weekend outing.
    And most folks I know around here that hunt that week, either hunted R3 and many did run up to R5
    (certainly others went to R8, but R3/R5 would swallow up the majority for that particular week, imo)
    And there are some that live in R5 on the south side that had to now wander into R3 if they wanted to hunt MD.
    Its fairly obvious right from the onset of the R5 closure how much more traffic showed up the first year.
    And its only increased, and last season was surely a sight to behold with guys thinking they were hiking to get away from
    everybody only to run into everyone from the camps up top (really was a sausage party!!) just couldn't believe it.
    (and I am not taking 1 hill, but probably 7 or

    As for closing all the other Regions for 10 days, it wouldn't affect me, as i can go later or earlier.
    But just because you leave the bucks alone for 10 days, doesn't mean you grow bigger bucks.
    Bigger bucks are created if they are given at least 6 years or more to mature, given they have the right nutrition and they
    had the genetics to begin with.
    The genetics are there the day they are born, it doesn't need 8 years to be passed on in the sperm.

    The question should be, how do we convince more folks to let young bucks mature?
    Can we convince folks that the hunt is more important than the result?
    That not cutting a tag does not mean you are a piss poor hunter!
    That cutting a tag doesn't make you superior either.
    And we also have to accept that some want meat in the freezer, and could care less about the Antlers in the end.

    FYI, the buck I posted in the "As They Lay" thread (which is no cranker anyways), well, the antlers are now the latest edition
    to my dog's chew toys!
    Fresh antlers are way tastier it seems for my dog, than those the antlers the bucks have shed last spring!

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6,530

    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by srupp View Post
    hmm watching this slow motion train wreck here for decades...lots of holes in the bucket to drain the resources..
    too many roads everwhere here..access is virtually unlimited..and most rd systems back onto the next with less than 3 kms between them..
    nothing has been done to deal with predators..
    4 legged ones..wolves..cougars..bears..both black and grizzly..numbers are literally exploding..with no balls by government to deal with this issue..too many Miley Cyrus wanna be..predators both 4 legged and 2 legged use these vast openings..and line of site that allow spotting of game and then rapidly closing the distances..
    these rds even when closed doesnt affect indians..there literally is no longer safe refuges for game animals
    the indian population does not know how to hunt predators..nor are they willing to learn nor even try.
    having the vast R5 region specled with rez is certainly not helping..hunting anything 24..7..365..a year..places that dont hold rez..ie Cariboo mts has access rds and cheap fuel doesnt help
    having 70 dollar steaks makes some think hunting is inexpensive access to protein..ya sure..places i never would expect hunters im seeing 8 9 10 camps....
    COVID has influenced many if they cant go to Hawaii...go to Horsefly hunting..out of the house...
    there are lots of pressures on our game numbers..these pressures from ALL SOURCES have only increased and have bit by bit taken a bite out of numbers of big game numbers...all the above issues must be addressed..ALLof them..
    the fires have also displaced where game can currently survive..
    10 years ago it would not be unreasonable to see 50 deer in 1` day at this time of year...
    yesdterday seen 13 camps of hunters..thousands of hecta.of burned forest and only a couple of sets of tracks in the recent snow..

    lots of tire tracks going into every track/trail..opening..
    actually never even seen a grouse..hmm just a strangly cut up moose..no nose no tongue..lots of wasted meat on the bones feeding ravens/crows/BIG EAGLES.
    no one willing to make the tough calls...
    steven
    Yup, its certainly a hit or miss times.
    I will say it is nice to see that some roads are starting to be ripped up, or blocked with huge logs etc.
    And I certainly don't miss the ATV's etc that ripped new trails all over the place by leaving roads either.
    Tons of tough decisions is certainly correct, but there is also a ton of money needed to make it work and also as well,
    a collaborative effort by all in BC.

    There are a ton of issues, but I cant help but always be drawn back to the logging over the past 30 years.
    The main plateau in R3 around Kammy is basically logged to nothing anymore and roads like you say.
    And the more it crept up to the winter range, the more I could see the changes in Ungulates.

    Its also reminded me of Merritt.
    There was some nice country to hunt in there, and decent bucks.
    Then along cam the Coq and the Connector, and for a couple of years, the "altering of the landscape" because of their
    creation, was really noticeable in a drop in MD sightings.
    But, after a couple years, the Deer figured it out.
    Then along came some logging, early onset of it, and man, there were deer everywhere to be had!
    But, much of that area looks just like the plateau around Kammy now.
    After a certain point, there were so many roads, so much cut away, you didn't run into deer like before.
    The nail in the coffin that made us stop hunting there however, was FN running the roads and pit lamping.
    Between those 2 issues, it was time to check out of there!

    And that's only 2 factors of many.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Region 0-1
    Posts
    1,481

    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    I dropped down to Reg 3-30 during the reg5 closure. I hunted 4 days in two different areas. The first area I was the only one there...and what I mean by that is the only living thing around. It was basically a moonscape now with the devastation of the wildfires. I saw one track. The second location I knew would be busier and it still has a mix of burned and green area. While I saw some sign I also was surprised to see the amount of traffic down every side road that were clearly from poachers working the "night shift". Fresh snow the night before and every road already tracked out before daylight? Throw in a couple obvious kill sites as a result. I abandoned that area too as its tough to compete with poachers and yes it was very busy with hunters there.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Region 8
    Posts
    13,157

    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by upperleftcoaster View Post
    Just some context questions:

    when did the closure in R5 start?
    what was the reasoning behind closing the season during the rut?
    The region 5 rut closure happened about 10 plus years ago. It was the result of buck to doe ratios that were lower than the provincial target of 20/100 does. IIRC the ratio from their flights was 19.48/100. The regional manager at the time wasn’t exactly hunter friendly. There was also a problem with their flight counts as they weren’t conducted as they were in the past….but the Regional Manager shut down the rut anyhow…..and it has remained closed ever since.

    As mentioned, if you want to increase your mature buck component, close the seasons on Oct 31.

    SSS
    https://oceola.ca/
    http://bcwf.net/index.php
    http://www.wildsheepsociety.net/

    I Give my Heart to my Family....
    My Mind to my Work.......
    But My Soul Belongs to the Mountains.....

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6,530

    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stone Sheep Steve View Post
    The region 5 rut closure happened about 10 plus years ago. It was the result of buck to doe ratios that were lower than the provincial target of 20/100 does. IIRC the ratio from their flights was 19.48/100. The regional manager at the time wasn’t exactly hunter friendly. There was also a problem with their flight counts as they weren’t conducted as they were in the past….but the Regional Manager shut down the rut anyhow…..and it has remained closed ever since.

    As mentioned, if you want to increase your mature buck component, close the seasons on Oct 31.

    SSS
    ^^^^^^^^^^^THIS!

    The groups that were saying we need to get rid of the Any Buck Season, think that it was stop all the young bucks being taken,
    it will stop all the traffic in October, and thus create more mature bucks overtime in November/Dec in years to come.

    But I see far too often bucks in November, which is 4 point only by then, hit the ground and they are no more than 3 years old.
    It wont lower the high influx of hunters.
    If anything, it will just increase the hunters come Nov 10 when R5 closes because there will just be that many more hunters
    with their tags not cut yet!
    You are just setting it up for a few more bucks to hit the ground at a young age.
    It wont make it better in terms of allowing bucks to age.

    Closing off the season on Oct 1 is about the only way to ensure it as you say.

    BUT!!!!!
    I know most don't want that, and even I wouldn't either.
    Just saying it is about the only way to ensure it, or go full on LEH.
    That's what some of these groups fail to realize.

    For me, I just don't like seeing an area get pounded because someone decided to shutdown R5.
    The affects of that and the large influx of hunters taking an extra amount of young bucks than years past is starting
    to show its effects.
    Its not about the 180 sightings.
    Its the fact that even a 160 sighting is getting rare.
    And where a buck that makes 100 is now a giant!
    That 1 4pt I saw, I doubt it scored 65!!! (in 4 pt season!, if it were any buck season, I would understand it better)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •