Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

[Livewire322]

As for mentors and youtube etc,
Its a good thing that people are taking the time to help others learn or get involved in whatever passion they are supplying.
Fish with Rod is an example of someone trying to show people what it takes to fish in BC, be it lake/river or ocean.
When you want to try something new, but don't know where to start, what you need and no one to ask, then it certainly is a
life line to get info.

The underlying issue isn't youtube, its that there is so many people getting into activities, and there is such limited space
or resource now.
Restricted where you can fish, or restricted to when and what you you can catch.
Its those limiting factors we are facing even in hunting, that is the real problem.

Certainly giving away areas to hunt thru landscape or mentioning a lake or river, makes it worse at times.
My dad used to hunt the Bull Rvr, and there were hunters, mostly locals, but it was limited in the amount of folks hunting in there.
Then an article came out (might have been in the BCWF magazine back in the day or other?), with a full write up on this persons
adventure hunting the Bull rvr, and the very next season, my dad said it seemed like there were campers every 50 yards.
He never went back.

Whats missing I suppose is, "how bad do you need it"?
Do you need to fill the freezer that season, or are you there for the hunt.
They are very different, and each individual needs to ask themselves that when they step out of the truck with rifle.
Its okay to put one in the freezer.
Its also okay to let it walk.
By letting it walk, i have actually put in more hours learning to hunt, learning more about what i am hunting.
If I was there just to tag out, I would have 1/20 the time in the field then I have now, and no where near the same amount of
experience.

Its a personal choice.
Either is fine to me.
But, if its just to say you cut your tag every year, I don't see the point.
Youtube cant teach you that.
Conservation comes from within.

You’ve hit the nail on the head with the limited resource statement - there are only so many animals. I’d word the space issue differently though. It seems to me that space is the opposite of limited these days (i.e., we’ve got unprecedented levels of access throughout the province by way of resource roads, fire breaks, etc.) and I think that until there is a concerted push to permanently retire unused access corridors, the problem of over harvesting is bound to continue (until the seasons are all closed - managed to zero).
To be clear, when I say over harvest, I mean that hunter harvest has likely increased beyond what is traditionally considered in the allocation model (total mortality= death caused by predation + hunter harvest + road mortality + death by illness + death by environmental factors…).
MV restrictions are potentially great for solving the over-accessibility issue, but enforcement of them is another beast entirely - hence why I’d rather see deactivation.
Perhaps my sample size is skewed, but I’ve noticed more deactivated roads in Region 3 around Kamloops lake in the last few years - in some cases, old roads from many years past that have been unused by industry for a decade or more are deactivated seemingly at random. Anyone else noticed a trend of roads that are no longer actively used by industry in their areas being deactivated?

[IronNoggin]

... go home boy and learn yourself some self respect.

I seriously recommend you heed your own advice, and wander off until such time as you learn the meaning of the word respect. Your misguided rants here say one hell of a lot more about you and your twisted mindset, than any you are attempting to tarnish.
Reality.

Nog

[Stillhunting]

We planted around 50 rehabbed roads last Spring in Region 3 so it's happening. The fires burnt some of that unfortunately.

Is over harvest by hunters really that much of factor in the province? Perhaps it's a localized problem. The deer where I hunt are incredibly wary of roads, even the does, but when you get in the dark timber, there are lots. In 15 years of hunting this area, I've noticed more WT but I've also focused more on hunting them. There hasn't been the deep snow higher up in November that would push deer lower for several years now. Migratory deer used to move into this area and make for unbelievable hunting, but there are still deer highways in the deep snow in the winter, so I think they just show up later. Wolves and grizzlies are not an issue either but there are lots of cats, coyotes and black bears. I've noticed more moose every year as well. I think cattle and development on winter range are limiting deer numbers more than hunters in the areas I hunt.

[Bugle M In]

We planted around 50 rehabbed roads last Spring in Region 3 so it's happening. The fires burnt some of that unfortunately.

Is over harvest by hunters really that much of factor in the province? Perhaps it's a localized problem. The deer where I hunt are incredibly wary of roads, even the does, but when you get in the dark timber, there are lots. In 15 years of hunting this area, I've noticed more WT but I've also focused more on hunting them. There hasn't been the deep snow higher up in November that would push deer lower for several years now. Migratory deer used to move into this area and make for unbelievable hunting, but there are still deer highways in the deep snow in the winter, so I think they just show up later. Wolves and grizzlies are not an issue either but there are lots of cats, coyotes and black bears. I've noticed more moose every year as well. I think cattle and development on winter range are limiting deer numbers more than hunters in the areas I hunt.

Yes, these are all good points.
And yes, "localized" areas is a better description for over harvesting.
Its by no mean everywhere by a long shot.
The main point for was that when R5 closed, a lot of folks at to go elsewhere then they would have "traditionally".
I saw that impact the 1st year it closed and has only soared (at times) from there.
But this only explains those 2 weeks.
The other hunters, who are local and in there weekly (generally scouting looking for a mature buck), have not only noticed it
in that week time slot, but a lot also in October during any buck.
Thinking that at first folks came in on November and then thru word of mouth heard that better chances available in October.
Throw in social media, and friends seeing other friends had some success and then they want to come as well.
One long time group said in 2 "weekends" (not weeks), they saw first hand more than 10 spikers be harvested.
Another (when my buddy got delayed due to washouts) told him that another spot, close by had 3 small bucks harvested inside
a 100 yard circle.
The total circumference is probably no more than 1.5km.

Both say the traffic not only in November, where/when everyone first noticed the increase happened, but in October is really
bad now.
And they say in their opinion, way more "any bucks" are being harvested.
But, everyone also sees a decline in the numbers of all deer in general in there.

I certainly see the traffic increase.
I can see the numbers look a bit on the decline (but certainly not gone), but i did notice how few small bucks i did see.
Usually for every 10 doe, i would say at least 1 spiker or 2 point close by.
We all notice it, if you have been in there for many years.
We all see the traffic increase (ranchers, hunters , FN)
And they are all starting to take note, from no hunting signs going up, cameras to keep an eye out, the FN wanting full closure
or rotating closure, and the local hunters seem to think the solution is to remove the any buck.

Just seems like everyone is there to tag out, and those that used to look for mature buck, and pass up on the small ones, are
feeling the pressure and questioning "if i let this one go, it most likely will be in the box anyways of another hunter" due to
the hunter # increase and the "Sustained" pressure it is seeing.

Again, localized, but still a concern, on a herd the migrates to a small area compared to September.

[Bugle M In]

You’ve hit the nail on the head with the limited resource statement - there are only so many animals. I’d word the space issue differently though. It seems to me that space is the opposite of limited these days (i.e., we’ve got unprecedented levels of access throughout the province by way of resource roads, fire breaks, etc.) and I think that until there is a concerted push to permanently retire unused access corridors, the problem of over harvesting is bound to continue (until the seasons are all closed - managed to zero).
To be clear, when I say over harvest, I mean that hunter harvest has likely increased beyond what is traditionally considered in the allocation model (total mortality= death caused by predation + hunter harvest + road mortality + death by illness + death by environmental factors…).
MV restrictions are potentially great for solving the over-accessibility issue, but enforcement of them is another beast entirely - hence why I’d rather see deactivation.
Perhaps my sample size is skewed, but I’ve noticed more deactivated roads in Region 3 around Kamloops lake in the last few years - in some cases, old roads from many years past that have been unused by industry for a decade or more are deactivated seemingly at random. Anyone else noticed a trend of roads that are no longer actively used by industry in their areas being deactivated?

Yes, your right about the space.
All the roads add up to way more easier access and les places for deer to hide or at least make it tougher for
hunters to access and I agree, a sign does nothing, and it certainly allows those that break the rules or
FN privilege's to still access them (a sign or wording in a Regulation does not give the ungulates enough
protection).
Ripping up the inactive Spurs do, and access is denied (unless by foot) for everyone, and it is certainly
the route to go, and yes, it is happening and yes, it is helping.
I meant "limited space" in reference to "shutting down an entire Region", causing hunters to condense
in to other areas, that have plenty of access, which makes it that much worse when you think about it.
But, we are on the same page!

[Bugle M In]

We planted around 50 rehabbed roads last Spring in Region 3 so it's happening. The fires burnt some of that unfortunately.

Is over harvest by hunters really that much of factor in the province? Perhaps it's a localized problem. The deer where I hunt are incredibly wary of roads, even the does, but when you get in the dark timber, there are lots. In 15 years of hunting this area, I've noticed more WT but I've also focused more on hunting them. There hasn't been the deep snow higher up in November that would push deer lower for several years now. Migratory deer used to move into this area and make for unbelievable hunting, but there are still deer highways in the deep snow in the winter, so I think they just show up later. Wolves and grizzlies are not an issue either but there are lots of cats, coyotes and black bears. I've noticed more moose every year as well. I think cattle and development on winter range are limiting deer numbers more than hunters in the areas I hunt.

I tried to tell the FN individual that the Fires could certainly have caused the lower deer sightings.
And also that the winters are so mild now that we most likely see the same amount of deer needing to migrate "all the way down".

But, its been mild for many years now up there with little to no snow compared to 3ft plus up top.
So, over time you get used to the amount of deer that do migrate down.
And certainly you wont see as many big boys around either.
But, that which we were getting used to as the norm has certainly trended even more down.
The big spike up, if you ask most is the hunter #'s and the amount of bucks being taken in Any buck season, and the lack of
many mature bucks come November.
Again all 3 main groups are saying that.

[Bugle M In]

The fact is folks, I took my buck on the 2nd day of a 7 day planned hunt and didn't take off home right away.
Decided to hang out with my hunting partners.
Gave me time to check out other areas I don't frequent that much.
But, it also gave me time to just shoot the shit with many folks in the area.

For the most part, no one ever has complaints.
There might be a small issue her or there from time to time, but generally a fairly harmonious area to hunt for years.
Except for some of the stupid shit the past 10 years or so (dead/poached/antler cut off's deer), and some still using ATV etc.

But, this was the first year i heard so much concern from everyone.
And what left me driving home with not a good feeling (and hey, i had a buck in the truck) was how drastic the measures some
want to take it to, to rectify the issues/concerns.
Thus the thread.
Because i had a bad feeling the day i heard R5 was closing.
Hunter impact seems to be a big concern now in those MU's.

[Stillhunting]

I would imagine many hunters will move on to different places because it doesn't sound like a worthwhile effort any more in these MUs. It would be nice if the regional wildlife biologists worked together to avoid causing such a spike in hunter numbers in certain areas. I've lost productive moose spots to wolves, or regulation changes and productive deer spots to too much hunting pressure or logging. It sucks but it forces a guy to explore new areas which can turn out to be even more productive.

[Bugle M In]

In the past the hunters hunting any buck or with doe leh, basically hunted the roads, or sat in cut blocks or a short cruise on
foot thru nearby timber.
And those deer are still taken that way.
The big change is the number of hunters, and that many are hiking up mts now.
I used to as well in October, with rifle to scout and just in case i run into the big guy or those permanent 3 pt.
(which over the years i found it a waste of time).
Now, a lot of these hunters do the same thing, probably with the same intent to search for older bigger bucks.
But, when they turn to go back to the truck, is when they will take a spiker.
And they are willing to drag or pack that thing out.

That's the big difference as i would never waste my time.
Heck, most of the 4pts I find are not worth the time, even by the road.

So, that's where the big difference is and what is being taken, how many and when.
And yes, people will move on when they cant even find those.
But its a shame to see it go that way and not say anything.
I guess we will see what happens?

I know i am looking into new ground already.
And when is the last time someone had just had success and they say its time to go elsewhere!!???

[BlackOwL]

Iron Noggin: you and BCHunting are playing in a way that doesn't let Me respond to insults, blocking Me to reply with a quote: but here you have:
I seriously recommend that you see what originated this, Livewire the "mentor" doesn't need any help to tarnish his person, he does it to himself, and in your twisted mindset you don't see the harm that Livewire is doing stealing locations from other hunters in YouTube, those hunters want to make a living and had put all effort to find their hunting locations, and the 'mentor" is advising new hunters to steal those locations, you tarnish yourself siding with this guy, who (and I am sure) came crawling to you asking for support.


And you siding with him speaks volumes of your twisted mind, despite his prejudiced and discriminatory attacks against Me I suggest that you be more selective of your words and your friends. and if you think that I am going to accept all the corrupted statements done on behalf of your boyfriend Livewire, you have that twisted mind set that you accuse of without any clue.


you have no shame trying to make something wrong appear like something good or positive, in fact borderline with ridicule, those who want to treat Me with respect are Wellcome. those who don't .. well don't come bitching.