Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

[Livewire322]

Livewire I’m not sure I understand how a person viewing a YouTube video of a persons hunting can tell where the video was shot . I guess if they post what MU they are hunting and show images of tell tale landmarks one could narrow it down . Arctic Lake

I had one specific video in mind from last year. I won’t divulge the name of the YouTube channel so as to not drive more traffic that way, but I will share that based on the species being hunted, some B-roll footage of the landscape, secondary target species mentioned during the hunt, and a general understanding of the geography of the province, I was able to narrow down the location of the hunt. No MU posted. Just landmarks and other clues.

Some videos would be harder to suss out locations from, all I was saying is that some quasi-professional hunters could make life a little more difficult for gut-pile chasers by avoiding showing prominent landmarks, using some low level video editing to mirror footage, and keeping a little more tight lipped about certain details (secondary species in the area, time of year, etc.)

Here’s a fake example: the target species is mountain goat, the b-roll footage is of coast mountains but they have highway traffic on them, and the hunt footage is all high alpine. Maybe some other details come out over the course of the footage and it becomes apparent that it was a drive in, not boat or plane access, hunt. I’d say that narrows things down to Pemby, or Squampton. Maybe they also let slip it’s an LEH tag - bingo - Pemberton or area it is.

It’s shocking to see how much info people give up that they may not even realize and it leads right to the spot they were in. Of course, this is predominantly applicable to the guys trying to make a career out of hunting because they need to make the videos interesting.

[Bugle M In]

My questions 1) how much mortality is related to hunting? I think I read that it is only 5% of total mortality. If so reducing hunting has little impact 2) What is happening to winter range? This is the key limiting factor and we are losing lots to development.

Interesting Question!
I know for years we have been using a % based on studies I suppose.
Someone else can explain it that has way more knowledge on it, but i think most folks accept it a a standard they use to
factor in.

BUT, I am wondering "when was the last time we assessed" Hunter Success/Mortality?
Because the hunters today are not hunting like my Dad's generation did.
20 years ago I would say 70-80% of hunting traffic in the area was by vehicle, and they hunted virtually 100% from
their vehicles, except for maybe parking, going for a 1 hr stroll, and off they went again.
Now, its seems like 25% only drive around, and most 75%, drive to location, park and hunt for the day on foot.
So, hunters today don't hunt like years ago, and i am sure success is higher.
The only reason it doesn't look that way is because we have less game in general, imo!!??

Don't know when the last time they reviewed that?
Maybe they have?
And if so, I don't know if that % was ever adjusted?

[Bugle M In]

I've only hunted in 5 a couple of times, but spent a lot of time out there, maybe a year of my life total camping, fishing and exploring around as my gfs family had a place out there.

I never could believe the amount of wolves, seeing them in broad daylight completely bold

And no matter where you stop the truck, there are wolf tracks everywhere and for every deer track there are a half a dozen wolf tracks on it.

You know it's bad when you're just road hunting for birds in the middle of the afternoon and see them all over the place, finding dead moose with only the hind legs chewed up, nothing coming back for it. Made me wonder how many moose killed by wolves in 5 actually get eaten by said wolves. Not the majestic creatures we hear about on Discovery or Nat Geo that waste nothing, that's for certain. They have a go at everything, if it goes down while they're in the area cool, but if it's too much effort, seems onto the next and moose and other dies of infection for the birds, bears and bugs. Similar to hunters who shoot at something "felt like a good shot but no blood" and spend maybe an hour tops.

Some mention social media being a pressure factor. I'm sure it is to a degree. I posted up a crayfishing video some years ago that went nuts for whatever reason and half the comments are "where is this exactly". Camping in general has become trendy and there does seem to be way more people out there with the sole purpose of taking selfies, partying with a good back drop and such, asking around to find new spots that still are prestine and not full of garbage. People who put the work in to find places certainly respect them more, in general anyway.

I do enjoy putting together videos to record the memories for myself and share with others. I don't worry about it too much here in R2 with BT hunting where there is virtually zero pressure in the timber. Inspiring others to BT hunt is a motive as they are a niche overlooked and underappreciated species that could use advocates due to habitat loss, whitetail invasion and wolf expansions in some areas.

But this thread is about R5. It's pretty open / easy / flattish terrain to begin with. Add a bunch more roads, burns, beetle kill, things sure do get easier for the wolves, masses of road hunters and "defacto legal" anything-goes hunters and harvests that cannot be accounted for in that area. Some guy posting BT clips in R2 is not a significant cause of the problems in 5 tho and new/more hunters aren't a bad thing.

The stuff you have posted has never been an issue.
You cant tell anything from what i seen.
Your just sharing with other hunters what you are seeing and sharing some experience.
Dana shared a "how to burp and rake" video for MD hunting.
Again, you cant tell where he is.
People sharing stuff like that arent giving anything away.
They are just trying to help they should continue to do so..

[Bugle M In]

Livewire I’m not sure I understand how a person viewing a YouTube video of a persons hunting can tell where the video was shot . I guess if they post what MU they are hunting and show images of tell tale landmarks one could narrow it down . Arctic Lake

You may not know the area off hand.
But, once you see these videos, you know have a starting point.
Example, fresh burn.
Then, depending how much "panning out they do", you see the terrain.
Is there a river?, are they on top of the main plateau?, are they on the slopes leading to the main plateau?
Then you go for a drive.
Sometimes there were very distinguishing features in videos, other times not so much.
But, if you stumble into the area while searching, you suddenly go "hey, this is it"!!

Last season Sports Fishing on the Fly actually fished some lakes in the Cariboo Region.
This time they stooped naming the actual lakes.
They just called them lake #1, lake #2 etc.
Why, because their shows can have "too much" impact and people flocking to the lakes.

Some people do a very good job at hiding the area while still producing a good show.
Others don't hide anything.
The folks that dont hide anything, are trying to help people into the filmed activity if they have never done the activity or are
still novices to it.
I am fairly certain that one fellow who does fishing shows for in here BC gets a ton of complaints when he does some of
his shows, like Vedder Rvr Fishing etc.
After a new video comes out, you know it, because you go up to fish for the day and suddenly you cant find parking anymore.

Its great that some want to share, and its their right to do so.
But, they sometimes don't understand that the person out there in the field next to them, doesn't want it shared.

[Bugle M In]

I agree in some areas habitat is an issue. However there is still a huge portion of this province unchanged. The farms and ranches that once had hundreds of deer on fields in the spring and fall now have a few dozen. Our stack yards were once winter feed supplements to 200 moose. Last year we thought 15 at most. Predators and those who want to save them have increased exponentially. Not rocket science.
Our cow herd’s breed back rate suffers when they are constantly being harassed and no doubt wildlife has the same effect.

Talking to the one Cattle Rancher i the area, they said they are seeing less than half the MD at their hay now than say 8 years
ago.
I didn't ask about wolves and their issues, but i should have.
But, they were more concerned with all the hunters that have come out of nowhere.

I think my hunting partner had some cam pics of a pack of 4 wolves from this season.
So, they are around and certainly weren't 10 years ago.

But, again, another impact certainly is all the extra hunter harvests that have occurred, imo.
If you have hunted the area for years, it is very very obvoius how busy it has become.
Thats going to come with impacts.
That all happened because of one clown making a big decision in R5 that affected a lot of hunters province wide.

[Bugle M In]

ALSO, I only mentioned all the LM hunters that used to go to R5 but had change to these MU's when R5 closed for 10 days.
I SHOULD also mention that many R5 Residing Hunters had their season closed also!!!
SO, where do you think a good chunk of them ended up?
YUP, great decision making.

[MichelD]

Interesting Question!
I know for years we have been using a % based on studies I suppose.
Someone else can explain it that has way more knowledge on it, but i think most folks accept it a a standard they use to
factor in.

BUT, I am wondering "when was the last time we assessed" Hunter Success/Mortality?
Because the hunters today are not hunting like my Dad's generation did.
20 years ago I would say 70-80% of hunting traffic in the area was by vehicle, and they hunted virtually 100% from
their vehicles, except for maybe parking, going for a 1 hr stroll, and off they went again.
Now, its seems like 25% only drive around, and most 75%, drive to location, park and hunt for the day on foot.
So, hunters today don't hunt like years ago, and i am sure success is higher.
The only reason it doesn't look that way is because we have less game in general, imo!!??

Don't know when the last time they reviewed that?
Maybe they have?
And if so, I don't know if that % was ever adjusted?

I'm not arging or debating with you, but my observation in the areas that I have hunted is that most of the hunters I have seen over the years still mainly use their vehicles, be they truck or quads and more recently side by sides. I admit though, that I am cheap on gas and only usually go to a few select spots now and do not ramble and range all over the province like I used to. Park and hike as you describe.

But still, I have not run into another hunter off the road in the trees for years, but I've heard vehicle after vehicle drive by when I've been a couple hundred yards into the trees where the deer trails are.

[horshur]

I agree in some areas habitat is an issue. However there is still a huge portion of this province unchanged. The farms and ranches that once had hundreds of deer on fields in the spring and fall now have a few dozen. Our stack yards were once winter feed supplements to 200 moose. Last year we thought 15 at most. Predators and those who want to save them have increased exponentially. Not rocket science.
Our cow herd’s breed back rate suffers when they are constantly being harassed and no doubt wildlife has the same effect.

It will take 20-25 years to get back what was lost if they deal with the wolves...

[Bugle M In]

I'm not arging or debating with you, but my observation in the areas that I have hunted is that most of the hunters I have seen over the years still mainly use their vehicles, be they truck or quads and more recently side by sides. I admit though, that I am cheap on gas and only usually go to a few select spots now and do not ramble and range all over the province like I used to. Park and hike as you describe.

But still, I have not run into another hunter off the road in the trees for years, but I've heard vehicle after vehicle drive by when I've been a couple hundred yards into the trees where the deer trails are.

I know you are not arguing with me, and you experiences are yours, and I believe you.
I have heard others in previous years make statements, but at the same time, I wasn't finding similar experiences.
So, I totally accept your experiences and your post.

Qauds due to the local dirt bike clubs is what really pissed the rancher/s years ago.
Even this year we had to contact the local FN Band (they have patrols) to let them know a group of clowns were in the area
with their quads and dirt bikes, and its been years since the closure.
And some are still trying to climb hills off road, not only with their quads, but their Trackers.
It amazes me what lengths some hunters will go.
And it F's it for everyone else.

[Bugle M In]

MichelD,

As for running into hunters.
I hunted 30 of those years and maybe only 3 times in those years did i cross paths with another hunter.
Back then, all you heard were trucks driving and road hunting.
Exactly like you say.

But, the last 10 years, after the closure, it changed.
last year, i watched 3 different groups tackling a climb up a mtn and all were at different stages of the climb, and none knew the
others were above/below them.
At the same time, i saw hunters on several other hills and making their climbs.
That day, i ran into 2 separate pairs of hunters where i hunted.
And they were new to the entire area???

I think what happened is when R5 closed, a lot of experienced hunters that hunted elsewhere before the closure, came in.
And then word of mouth etc from there.

Example, look at the WK Elk and the many complaints we hear now.
When it was LEH, it limited the hunters obviously.
Also, because it was LEH, it also limited the "experience" of the hunters that won.
I am certain some won the tags and had very limited knowledge of the area/s or much elk hunting experience to begin with.
And there were those that won who knew where and how to hunt them.
So, a good mix of limited hunter #'s.

BUT, once it opened to GOS.
Well then, the best of the best of elk hunters in the province showed up, no longer limited by a permit.
And as we all have heard, it only took a couple of years for most of the tanks to fall.

Tells us things.
Too high a hunter # in an area leads to more game taken (it has to).
And hunters do know how to hunt better than ever before!