Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

[Bugle M In]

Points that have come up in discussions-

- In the big picture, the hunters foot print is pretty small, there will always be escapement. Small areas get most of the pressure but in reality most of the ground goes untouched

-wildlife cannot be stock-piled. Holding capacity is what it is. Increase numbers may only lead to increase winter kill......may. Quality of habitat is just as important as quantity

-Antler restrictions are the safety valve, licensed hunters never kill all the breeding stock

- regulating for quality instead of opportunity will only discourage hunters, without hunters there is no value to wildlife, with out value there is no interest in management

Boxhitch,

What you are saying is basically bang on to what i have been trying to tell these other groups that want either closures or
further restrictions when i talk to them face to face.
The only other thing I have tried to tell them is that these fires will have some short term impact and maybe the missing deer
just moved elsewhere for now.
Example, the elk were brought up that roam the area, and now they are suddenly gone elsewhere.
I told them of course they are, there was a big fire so they moved for now.

The big impact to me has been the number of hunters everyone else is seeing.
And that for some, that is the reasoning that there are no longer mature bucks to be seen.
That too many hunters are now taking way too many young bucks.

I am not the one saying that.
I agree that there has been a huge increase in hunters in the area.
I think R5 caused that, but many others think it is FB/IG. (maybe its both)
And yes, i would agree, there does seem to be a shortage of the older bucks now being spotted for a few years now.
And for years, I always seen Doe with yearlings, plenty of them, so it was never a concern.
ITs only been the last year or 2 that the area seems a little light on them as well.
But then again, i also have argued to these same folks we no longer get the snow, so it is possible that many of the deer
just arent in the area as they would be if there was snow.

Trust me guys, i have tried hard to make some of these folks try to understand that their closure and restrictions wont be
the answer.
As for the huge influx of hunter #'s, all i can conclude is it all started when R5 closed.

So, in the end, are these other groups wanting closures or removal of part of the season to reduce hunters which they think
in turn will bring back deer.
In other words, again we are to blame for being hunters.
And, would it not make sense to open up R5 once again, as that fits in the time frame that many feel it got so busy?????

[wos]

In my opinion. Habitat fragmentation within mule deer migration routes is probably the species biggest enemy. Plus an ever growing predator problem that we are experiencing. I do agree a more homogeneous season across regions to spread hunters out could definitely help. But the focus needs to be on habitat. Not hunters if we want to see the population thrive.

[warnniklz]

https://bcwf.bc.ca/spring-2021-updat...-deer-project/

Check out whom the mule deer specialist is...
And note the first 15 weeks cause

Although they immediately somewhat dismiss it

[Bugle M In]

The OP was to inform some hunters that hunt these MU's to be aware that there will be some new signage up thru the
Cattlemans Assoc saying "No Hunting", so be prepared.
And honestly, its been the dumbasses making trails with their quads for a long time on grazing land that started that.
It was fine until then, but that has been an issue for years until the ATV Ban came into affect.
But, now with the increase in hunter #'s, it has also added fuel to the fire.
So, now we got signs!

The FN Bands are saying there is a sharp decrease in deer, and they are not just happy with the MV closure, but are wanting to
see full out closures, and citing that it is due to not enough deer in the area and too many hunter #'s.
And in my opinion, the Ranches in the nearby areas would be happy with a full on closure, as it would eliminate of the
asshats that concern them, so the FN proposal would benefit them also.

As for Hunters, there are some starting to say that the Any Buck Season should be stopped, because of too many hunters and
thus the reason for the lack of mature bucks being seen any longer and that the high hunter numbers is taking a toll and that
too many young bucks are being taken.
And to validate that rationale, stating that most of the bucks now aren't much older than 3 years of age.
(i would agree only with the fact that many of the deer are young and most that hit the dirt arent that old)

I am just trying to inform folks that there are RUMBLINGS happening, and its coming from several user groups.
All with their own idea as to what the solution is.
I am just hoping that no one group is able to whisper their thoughts into Ministry action!
I am hoping that there is a "collaborative" effort in figuring out, what's going on and what to do, IF, anything is done at all.

For me, I am waiting for the SI MD study to give some answers.
That Study is a bigger deal then many might be thinking, because some groups seem to already have a solution, and I don't like
them! (so maybe there is my complaint?)

My only thought is, and thus the title for the OP, is if the huge increase in Hunter #'s relates to R5 being closed and just
word of mouth has developed to such a point now over time, with the addition of FB/IG, that so many consider this the best
option to hunt while R5 is closed?
AND, would it not help these MU's that are being pressured hard to have R5 reopen to relieve some of the pressure??

Otherwise, these RUMBLINGS and looking for further restrictions are going to get louder.
And no, its not about not getting a buck and complaining.
I got mine this season and could have taken bucks virtually every year since I have hunted it (4 decades now)
That's not the issue, but I agree with all the groups, that it is different now or for right now.

The biggest concern I have, is not the ANY BUCK being removed (and I have always supported having the season) but could happen?
It probably wont be a full out closure, but that would be a big blow and FN have a bigger voice then ever before with NDP.
The one with the most potential, after the any buck removal, is a 10 day closure just like R5. (maybe in these MU's only?)
If the Rumblings get bigger!

Then I and many others will be "moving to an MU near you"!
IT will all depend who has the loudest and voice, who is listening and what, if anything happens.

[Aaron600]

You got guys like Sky Edge on youtube posting all his spots. In some vids he even mentions specific spots. Your not a celebrity hunter. Knock it off.

[twoSevenO]

You got guys like Sky Edge on youtube posting all his spots. In some vids he even mentions specific spots. Your not a celebrity hunter. Knock it off.

Dudes like him are hilarious. He spends hours filming and putting together videos, while giving away a lot of his location, and all for a very mediocre amount of views.

What's even the point? Dude has like 1500 subscribers and he could probably be a way better hunter if he stopped fiddling with selfie sticks in the bush and focused more on actually hunting.

Instagram and YouTube are great for motivating you to get out, but people need to knock it off with trying to make hunting a job.
And I really don't get what these people are trying to gain with videos and full panorama backgrounds that they can't convey through pictures instead.

[Aaron600]

Agreed! People start guessing the specific MU's in the comments and he's like "yup that's the one or/close to that one..."

[twoSevenO]

Points that have come up in discussions-

- In the big picture, the hunters foot print is pretty small, there will always be escapement. Small areas get most of the pressure but in reality most of the ground goes untouched

-wildlife cannot be stock-piled. Holding capacity is what it is. Increase numbers may only lead to increase winter kill......may. Quality of habitat is just as important as quantity

-Antler restrictions are the safety valve, licensed hunters never kill all the breeding stock

- regulating for quality instead of opportunity will only discourage hunters, without hunters there is no value to wildlife, with out value there is no interest in management

I agree that hunter footprint isn't the issue, especially in BC. There is just way too much land and most of it doesn't even get seen by hunters.

However, I don't know that I agree on the regulating for quality point. Is that exactly what they do in the USA? Most states offer open seasons, but I don't think any are as generous as BC. The more sought after areas with bug bucks are incredibly tough to draw but produce amazing trophy deer, and they have no shortage of hunters lining up for a chance at one.

Maybe I'm out of my element, but I'd rather shoot a 180+" buck every 5 years than be able to shoot 3 unremarkable bucks every year. Wouldn't you?

BC holds some amazing bucks and genetics for it are there .... but there just aren't enough of them out there like there could be.

USA states have a lot more hunters and pour obscene amounts of money into it compared to BC.

[Elkaholic]

https://bcwf.bc.ca/spring-2021-updat...-deer-project/

Check out whom the mule deer specialist is...
And note the first 15 weeks cause

Although they immediately somewhat dismiss it

This gets me as well. They know that bears clean up in the spring, they also have fully admitted they do not have a clue how many black bears are out there. They will not admit how many grizz are out there either, they do run counts and from what I was told it is disgusting out there. Bears just love fawning/calving grounds and our bio's have never taken the time to factor them into the equation. Cougars are always going to be the biggest predator to mule deer just like Lynx will be to rabbits/hares, its their bread and butter for food. But maybe if we have more surviving the bear gauntlet in the spring that could help out as well.

[JoeSixPack]

Everyone wants a big buck, but they can't pass up the medium bucks. You can't shoot a big one if you shoot an average one. If you want a big one, hunt for a big one. This is gonna mean you eat your tag some years. They're out there, always have been, always will be. It comes down to whether or not you are willing to put the time in and work for one.