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Thread: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

  1. #31
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    Feb 2009
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by warnniklz View Post
    https://bcwf.bc.ca/spring-2021-updat...-deer-project/

    Check out whom the mule deer specialist is...
    And note the first 15 weeks cause

    Although they immediately somewhat dismiss it
    Yup, Cougars, Bears and Landscape Alteration certainly top the list.
    Ironic the wolves weren't on the top isn't it.

    Let me add something else I recently heard, but it would be nice if anyone from the study can confirm this fact, so take it
    as "What I recently heard", not a fact.

    I was told that recently that 12 Fawns were (Maybe Doe as well) were collared not too long ago, and that only 2 of the 12
    have survived.
    No idea of the causes (but if the study is correct so far, then its more of the usual suspects).
    And again, this wasn't a direct conversation, but a thru word of mouth and I think from one of the ranch hands???

  2. #32
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    Oct 2010
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    North Van
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    From that report:

    "However, overwinter fawn survival differs by region and significantly by year...."

    I think that's the key info we're looking for and I expect we'll see some of it soon (varying significantly by year indicates that the longer the timeline the more we'll know, always remembering that time is in short supply). There is currently a fair amount of talk about what *seems* to be occurring (as in "I was recently told....") and I think that leads most of us to the same place: what are the straight goods on this? How many fawns, especially female fawns, are surviving to reproductive age? I expect we'll see that info fairly soon based on who's doing the research and how many of us are anxiously awaiting it like Bugle indicates - change it from "what I heard" into "fact")




    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
    "Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey

  3. #33
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSixPack View Post
    Everyone wants a big buck, but they can't pass up the medium bucks. You can't shoot a big one if you shoot an average one. If you want a big one, hunt for a big one. This is gonna mean you eat your tag some years. They're out there, always have been, always will be. It comes down to whether or not you are willing to put the time in and work for one.
    Yes, you are totally correct.
    And I have tried my hardest not to squeeze the trigger on a great many bucks over the years.
    In part because I always felt that maybe just hike a little further and that big one might be there waiting, as for years
    there was always hope for that to happen.
    Passing up 150 -160 bucks did happen, but certainly anything smaller was passed up on for sure!!
    There were times where a smaller buck was taken, but that would happen because someone really wanted some meat or
    pepperoni in the freezer, but most of us were more than happy to eat tag soup in order to have a crack at the buck being
    bigger the next.
    And it used to work...for a time.
    And only once did one from our group take a Doe, and that was because it was his sons first legal time to to hunt.
    Only 1 in 40 plus years!

    But I will be honest, i certainly lowered my standards this season.
    Just too damn busy in there for starters now.
    Also some other stuff I will leave out.
    And the fact that I basically saw 2 of the smallest 4pts taken the day before by what I considered experienced hunters that
    I know can do better than that and are some of the folks feeling the crankers are all gone.
    I finally walked in to the woods the next day and decided that if i spotted the buck from the day before, that i would take him.
    He more than likely would have been hanging in one of the other camps anyways, so why not mine.

    It is certainly becoming a "if I cant beat them, might as well join them", which I know isn't helping but i attribute it to the
    overcrowding that has developed (for me anyways).
    And honestly, its not just me.
    I recall Dana used to originally say many people just didn't know hoe to hunt big MD.
    Then near the end, he was definitely pointing fingers at wolves for a lack of deer.
    But right at the end before he left, he also stated that "everyone was shooting young deer" and its hard to get big ones
    if you do that.
    Not going to argue his thoughts, but just refresshing his views over time.
    But i borught up his name becasue i what i saw in some of his last posts.
    And that was photos of his family with success (which i am totally happy for him and the family, fyi!!!!)
    But, i did question him on why would he allow his family to take younger deer (and honestly, there are way more smaller deer
    taken every year by most hunters, but i would have considered these deer quite small/young by "Dana Standards")

    Basically he replied as i felt this season.
    That it had gotten to the same point as me...cant beat them, join them.

    And i have to say, that is another sad trend that is developing by experienced hunters.
    It used to be very easy to let bucks walk.
    But now, its becoming hard to carry that on.
    Just seems like there aren't enough people out there practicing that, or, maybe the area is seeing decline and there just
    aren't enough bucks in that area to practice it????

    All I know is what my eyes see.
    And the bucks that are taken are pretty damn small now, or at least for now.

  4. #34
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    One other little side note that might be an interesting development and might also explain why the Cattlemans Assoc has been
    so involved as of late.
    Seems there is a small group of folks who are collecting some sort of samples from all over the place.
    Not sure what they are collecting??

    But, word has it that they are trying to create a "new Park"???
    I have no idea what kind of park, but my logic would say Provincial?? (what other kind of park could it be???)
    And, if a park was created, it sounds like it would encapsulate some, if not all of the grazing land.

    So, does that mean it that were to happen, would the Lease the rancher holds be terminated????
    Thought is that some of the new signage is to keep those individuals out.
    Seems like this exploration is has been going on for a couple of seasons now.

    Again, its another little event that is taking place right now and not sure where that will end up and any further implications
    as well.
    Certainly no lack of talk up in that neck of the woods these days.

  5. #35
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    Dec 2018
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    We are like wolves, going into an area (region) on easy access roads and hunting animals. More of us in an area equals more kills. To me it seems it is what it is. What are we going to do about it? There should be zero open season for any doe/cow (female) animal. That’s simple.
    Member of CCFR

  6. #36
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    Mar 2006
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    Aldergrove, BC
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingtyler123 View Post
    We are like wolves, going into an area (region) on easy access roads and hunting animals. More of us in an area equals more kills. To me it seems it is what it is. What are we going to do about it? There should be zero open season for any doe/cow (female) animal. That’s simple.
    agreed - And people are hunting more and more off the beaten path nowdays. Everyone is into the backcountry style of hunting now it seems.
    Agree on the doe/cow draws as well ... i do not support that one bit. I'd rather pay twice as much for my deer tag if it meant no doe tags were allocated, if they are doing it from the generating of revenue point of view.

  7. #37
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    May 2011
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    Burnaby
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Could be that the price of beef/pork/chicken is driving more folks to hunt for their meat (although they’d have to be pretty bad at economics to think that pans out…)

    Personally, I hunt to eat, not for a size or age class. That means the first legal big-game I see is taken - bear, deer, moose, or otherwise - maybe I’d be more picky if there were more animals, but in the world we’re in now, legality is the threshold. I guess that puts me into the “can’t beat em, might as well join em” camp.

    I will say that I saw more game sign this year than in years past, it just took getting off the beaten path to find it. It also took more of a commitment than I’ve ever put in - around 15 days of hunting time between the last weekend of September and Remembrance Day. I’d typically get 5 in past years.
    Of course, the game that were once abundant in those some areas are being killed or pushed elsewhere.

    It’s one thing for people to be seeing less game in the accessible areas and another thing entirely for there to be led game overall…

    The fact that the province doesn’t manage the game herd more effectively here is a true shame. I’d happily pay more for a deer tag if it meant more money to management of the herd for hunting opportunities - sadly we aren’t even a blip on the radar of any of the provincial political parties and so we stand no chance.
    Last edited by Livewire322; 11-24-2021 at 05:13 PM.
    If it cant be done with one shot, it shouldn't be done.

    "grab large claw hammer - put against butt cheek , pry head out of ass with claws...then go back to school..."

  8. #38
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    - more bucks than does = more competition between bucks (spend calories fighting, death by fighting)

    - more does than bucks = longer rut period = fawn dropping happens over a longer period of time = easier for predators to clean up
    (this would be like if we stormed the beaches one landing craft at a time, wouldn't work so well compared to dropping everyone off at once)

    - lower deer population = less competition over resources = less deer but healthier deer (a large pizza between 12 people is a lot different over a large pizza between 2)

    - not all antlerless deer are does. Some are juvenile bucks

    - someone who shoots first legal animal every year (usually a spiker or two point) takes pressure off the big guys

    - someone who holds out for a monster doesn't kill an animal every year

    - lots of focus on moose and deer just to hit the meat grinder... and less focus on bears

    - If every buck was 180+... the 180+ wouldn't be so special

  9. #39
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    Mar 2007
    Location
    Victoria
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    365

    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    My group did a combination moose/mule deer hunt for one week every October in the same spot in Region 5 for probably 20 years in a row. We picked this spot more or less at random after many years going further north into Region 7. The first morning we drove up a logging road, came around the corner and saw seven deer, three of which were bucks. We had pretty good success every year...two or three deer and one or two moose every year between six or seven guys. Then one year, around 2015 I'd say, things changed drastically. Almost no deer or moose tracks but tons of wolf sign including vocals. Skunked that year and haven't been back (partly due to lack of enthusiasm by some of the group, I must admit...getting too old, I suppose). Anyway, a round about way to say that I believe, in our particular case, predation was the culprit.

  10. #40
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    I would say where i hunt, the access isn't that easy, as you have to put some effort in to hike a few hours first.
    But, its not like i need a pack horse either and a 3 day ride in.

    Also, there is a big difference between hunting bucks on Sept 1 compared to Dec 1.
    Deer etc can spread out pretty good, and inhabit a lot of territory early in the season.
    But, come Winter, the game does "compress" into much smaller territory.
    (Traditional winter ranges and it isn't hard to find that on google anymore)
    And as I said, especially when we have heavy snow years, but, that has been far from the case for quite sometime now.
    So, it isn't always easy to gauge any longer what is really going on.
    Shed hunters sure haven't helped either....lol (as that was a good gauge to see what did eventually show up).

    But I did state that there is now a fair amount of hunting traffic now and there is no bs in that statement.
    That part has nothing to do with the study.
    Question is why?

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