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Thread: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

  1. #1
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    Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    I am not asking this out of Curiosity, but in fact out of Concern.
    The Concern is because of some of the Rumblings I am hearing thru discussions with others about some
    Areas in R3 bordering R5 and the impacts R3 is starting to see and show signs of.

    Firstly, I like to say I was worried when I heard that R5 would close for 10 Days from the onset.
    And many that I speak to, both long time hunters and FN and Ranchers are seeing the same issues.
    The first issue is the increase in Hunters in some of the MU's, which i would say have seen a 300 to 400%
    increase (just an observation, not stat).
    Right from the get go, there was an increase, and over time, word of mouth and I guess hunters inviting
    other friends has helped create further increase in Hunter #'s.

    Now, talking to a few other long time Hunters (40 years + and hunt theses MU's often in the season), there
    certainly seems to be grounds for concern.
    MD Doe #'s seem to be decreasing, but what is really noticeable is the "Lack of Mature MD Bucks" in these
    MU's.
    The Local Ranchers in the Area also saying the same thing.
    One that I talked to said that they have a filed with hay bails, and cameras, and for years would see upwards of 50 MD at night, mostly Doe, but with Bucks.
    Now, they are barely seeing 20, and only 1 reasonable mature MD Buck (which was poached on their
    property, by whom, who knows, maybe hunters, maybe FN?).
    Talking to a couple of FN from the nearby Bands, I am hearing the exact same thing from them.
    So much so, that there are "whispers" of what they want to see happen.

    The FN Bands are talking about "Full on Closures, or possibly Rotating Full on Closures, alternating each
    year".
    These areas would be that where we have seen Fires this season as well as some from a few years ago.
    (And I am not joking here folks!).

    Ranchers are posting up Signs, due to all the hunting traffic and concerns for safety and livestock etc.
    (Sounds like The Cattleman's Ranch Association is stepping in to help these smaller Ranches and you
    will probably see some new signage for next year! but some just went up now from what I am told).

    As for some of the long time Frequent Hunters of MD, there is now the thought that the "Any Buck Season"
    should be removed from R3, or at least certain MU's, due to the lack of mature MD buck sightings.
    (if those rumblings take off in certain R&G clubs, who knows how far up that travels then??)
    The other rationale being to get rid of some of the heavy traffic of hunters these same MU's are seeing.

    I know some of these areas well.
    I have to be honest and there is certainly grounds for concern.
    Its hard to spot a mature MD buck
    And, if one does get taken by Hunters, they are pretty damn small now (no more than 3.5 years of age imo)
    And I am now seeing MD Doe #'s going down (and I was always in the past saying #'s were stable but
    could never figure out why #'s weren't increasing as many of the Mature Doe had 1, if not 2 yearlings)

    We also had some large Fires, and I don't think anyone, from any of the Groups I mentioned above can
    really say if possibly the lack of MD or dwindling #'s is due to these big fires (it could be).
    That is yet to be seen, as it will take a few years to get back on track, but don't think you will see deer
    using all of the same terrain as much as they did pre-fire.

    But, 2 elements are true, imo.
    Hunter Traffic has gone way way up.
    Mature Buck # have gone way down.
    (there were quite a few small bucks taken this year in the any buck season from reports in October).

    The reason I ask about R5 closure, is the fact that it is causing some real issues now.
    If it doesn't get re-opened, and help take away some the hunting pressure in those R3 M's, we might be
    facing further restrictions or potentially closures in R3.

    When you start having experienced long time hunters, Ranchers and the FN all saying the same thing,
    then there certainly will be talks going on shortly I fear.

    For my part, when having these one to one discussions, I ask everyone to be patient and see what comes
    from the Southern MD Study.
    We are seeing that Cougar are doing their part for sure.
    And we need to know all the factors before we start saying, restrict this or close that!
    Its great that this study is collaring Doe and yearlings, as I would like to understand why we aren't really
    seeing an increase in MD# over time.
    Only lacking point I see is that there aren't any mature MD being collared, as to see what is their fate.
    Yes, Doe are still getting pregnant at a high rate, but by who and what age????
    So, it still wont have all the answers.
    And whether something comes from it, who knows, I ain't holding my breath.

    Certainly there is some poaching element going on.
    I have seen small bucks lying dead with only their antlers cut off.
    Doe left to rot (and they weren't lost)
    Some other incidents as well, so it is happening.
    And no one really knows where the FN #'s fall into it all.
    I have had conversations with some band members, and some say they have taken 1 or 2, while others
    report they have taken 4 in a season and one individual proudly stating he took 20 in one season.
    What to think, who to believe?.

    So, I ask, what is going on with R5 and may we see it reopened at some point?
    It could take the ever increasing pressure off of some of the R3 MU's, imo.
    I am trying to not hit the Panic Button here.
    But I am conveyancing that there is a lot of talk starting to develop, and solutions differ depending on which
    group you are talking to, but all of them are saying something needs to change ASAP.

    I am saying something is going to change soon, because too many are starting to talk.
    The talk always include restriction or closure.
    That's concerning, so, that is my heads up to all.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Thanks for the write up - it was an interesting read.
    Far more reasonable than a full on closure would be a motor vehicle restriction or an equipment restriction (archery only).

    It’s frustrating that the ministry/bios seem to want to go nuclear right off the hop (as evidenced by the poorly executed 10 day closure in R5 but not in R3).
    If it cant be done with one shot, it shouldn't be done.

    "grab large claw hammer - put against butt cheek , pry head out of ass with claws...then go back to school..."

  4. #3
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Talked to a truck leaving a MV closure area with a cow moose and 1 mule deer doe and decent mule deer buck in the back.

    “We are aloud to hunt anywhere”
    CCFR member

  5. #4
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rageous View Post
    Talked to a truck leaving a MV closure area with a cow moose and 1 mule deer doe and decent mule deer buck in the back.

    “We are aloud to hunt anywhere”
    Which Region are you speaking of...R5 or R3?
    By now, if R5 10 day closure was o benefit to the Region, there should major improvements by now in the quality of Bucks and
    their maturity.
    Certainly long enough now to see if it helped.

  6. #5
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    I think that social media has been extremely destructive in what people are seeing in the bush. It is obvious that more hunters in an area equals seeing less game. I don't care if you are road hunting, standing, sitting or hiking. More guys still equals less game. Not saying there can't be success. I have had areas that were posted on here and were destroyed because of the amount of hunters that flocked to it. Look up Jelvis and his posts years back if you want to figure out what happened in region 3. Region 5 has the same issue going on. A "good" hunter used to keep their mouths shut and sure the heck wouldn't post it on a forum to get 1000+ reads. I go hunting to get away from people and to see game, not to invite everyone to a sausage party. Logging is all but dead in this province. Gone are the days of new logging slashes that made for exciting times. Clearcutting never left habitat for the animals to live in and grow. There are many factors that have contributed to lower number of mature bucks that could be discussed for days.
    Last edited by cameron0518; 11-23-2021 at 04:17 PM.

  7. #6
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Livewire322 View Post
    Thanks for the write up - it was an interesting read.
    Far more reasonable than a full on closure would be a motor vehicle restriction or an equipment restriction (archery only).

    It’s frustrating that the ministry/bios seem to want to go nuclear right off the hop (as evidenced by the poorly executed 10 day closure in R5 but not in R3).
    Well, i am not sure what the Ministry will do.
    I am only stating what i am hearing in discussions with the 3 groups i mentioned in the OP.

    You bring up MVR.
    That's another thing that could compound further issues in MU's like i am speaking of.
    Yes, some hunters will enjoy the MVR areas and go out on foot.
    But many will now seek alternative areas from what was once their traditional areas to hunt, especially around Nov 11 week.
    We just had new MVR's put in place in may of those new fires areas this year.
    And some will find that now too hard to access their honey holes.
    Which means they also now get pushed into another area.
    So again, possibly more hunters being squeezed into the same areas, further compounding the problem already occurring even
    furthermore????
    IMO

  8. #7
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    7B went to a closure, where mule deer do not open till Nov 1, and it is only 4 point. There is an antlerless bow only season in the beginning of September. I do see some beauty mulie bucks up north. Folks still seem to fill their freezers up there in the Peace! moosin
    "A good day hunting is mud on your truck or blood on your hands"

    “Some people go to church and think about hunting……………others go hunting and think about God!”

    It's actually called the 375 "ouch and ouch"!!

    "Not asking for any spots or anything like that............................................"

  9. #8
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Interesting,
    Butttt, since when has the there ever been a regulation similar to this put in place then rescinded .
    Personally, I don't ever recall.
    Our Wildlife Management is pathetic really. Governments past and present do not deem it a priority at all.
    FFS, we still ONLY get 7 % of our license and tags fees back into habitat. Government doesn't CARE.

    We are a small group and make ZERO difference at the polls come election time.
    WSSBC
    BCWF
    CCFR
    BHA

  10. #9
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    region 3
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    I thought we were told that when we reduced white tail numbers, mule deer populations would bounce back.

  11. #10
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    Re: Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    Well, i am not sure what the Ministry will do.
    I am only stating what i am hearing in discussions with the 3 groups i mentioned in the OP.

    You bring up MVR.
    That's another thing that could compound further issues in MU's like i am speaking of.
    Yes, some hunters will enjoy the MVR areas and go out on foot.
    But many will now seek alternative areas from what was once their traditional areas to hunt, especially around Nov 11 week.
    We just had new MVR's put in place in may of those new fires areas this year.
    And some will find that now too hard to access their honey holes.
    Which means they also now get pushed into another area.
    So again, possibly more hunters being squeezed into the same areas, further compounding the problem already occurring even
    furthermore????
    IMO
    Fair enough, but this all seems like a miss-coordination on the MoE’s part - i.e., no thought of pushing hunters to other areas.
    I’m not saying they should use MVRs specifically, but it could be a tool used. Same with a restriction on tackle type.
    It just better be coordinated across neighbouring regions to avoid spill over into new areas.


    One anecdotal story for your pile:
    I’ve hunted 3-17, -18, -19, and -29 extensively over the past 10 years. I hadn’t been in 3-17 since the Elephant hill fire and successive ATV restrictions, but I returned to 3-17 this year to find that roads/trails which were once barely passable by ATV have been cut open wide enough to allow full sized pickups through and there were more vehicles than I ever remember seeing. So, yes, there is certainly an effect of pushing hunters from one area to another with poorly coordinated restrictions.
    If it cant be done with one shot, it shouldn't be done.

    "grab large claw hammer - put against butt cheek , pry head out of ass with claws...then go back to school..."

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