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Thread: Pointers

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    225

    Re: Pointers

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashlik View Post
    Not to be annoying, but that are they? I understand the importance of registration and testing but if one didn't go through the process and just bred two DD's what does that make new born pups then?
    German wirehair pointers!
    A DD is defined by a tested dog,if the parents are not Breed certified as in Breedtests,Breedshow,HN and checked for ED/OD through Germany then they are not considered DDs.Your pups will not get any papers,Ahnentafel or Abstammungsnachweis.
    Not to be rude but you don't understand the importance of testing otherwise you would have contacted DD-WV Canada und gotten some help to test your dogs.With your dogs you don't know if there are any faults that could be passed on to the pups.I'm sure Roger won't be happy.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    3,933

    Re: Pointers

    Quote Originally Posted by mastercaster View Post
    A setter is a pointing breed so it's their instinct to point. It's not their instinct to fetch but chances are they will want to do it anyway because there's a good chance they enjoy it but if they don't you can still train the dog to retrieve either using positive reinforcement or by using the force fetching process. It's your choice. You can have a pointer who can retrieved well by using either method.

    Just wondering why you would want your setter to break point and rush (flush) the bird? Generally hunters want their pointing bred dogs to be rock steady on point while you or a hunting partner flushes the bird. Ideally, the dog should be steady to wing and shot, as well, but whether you want your dog to do this is up to you. Some hunters don't care if their dog breaks after the flush or during the shot but those who hunt test their dogs sure do. It's the difference between having a starter dog or a fully finished one,,,,and there's a lot more of the former than the latter!

    As far as how much time and work you want to invest in your dog it's pretty easy to get a pointer be steady on birds just with lots of exposure to them. They'll teach your dog. It's far more work to get the dog to be steady to wing (the flush) and even more work to have your dog be steady to shot but when they can do all three it sure looks nice, especially if you have also trained them to be a reliable retriever.
    I thought the idea was to get the dog on point and stay on point while I get into position and then get the dog to flush the birds into flight so I can shoot them out of the air. Id actually prefer to shoot them on the ground as theres far less waste, but the hazard for the dog increases drastically. This is my first Pointer so Im learning lots as I go and I suspect my expectations will be higher with the next one. The training should still be similar, but he definitely doesnt do a natural point like some of the dogs you see on YouTube.

    But yes, the plan is to get him on point and stay on point until hes told to change.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,209

    Re: Pointers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bustercluck View Post
    I thought the idea was to get the dog on point and stay on point while I get into position and then get the dog to flush the birds into flight so I can shoot them out of the air. I’d actually prefer to shoot them on the ground as there’s far less waste, but the hazard for the dog increases drastically. This is my first Pointer so I’m learning lots as I go and I suspect my expectations will be higher with the next one. The training should still be similar, but he definitely doesn’t do a natural point like some of the dogs you see on YouTube.

    But yes, the plan is to get him on point and stay on point until he’s told to change.
    You getting into position should be you walking in from the side in front of the dog so you can flush the bird. You'll be ready to shoot because the dog has let it be known that there in a game bird within the scent cone. Depending on the direction of the wind the bird could be as close as 3 feet in front of the dog if she/he's upwind of the bird to as much as a 100 feet if the dog is down wind.

    You could train your setter to break point and flush but chances are once the bird takes flight he/she will continue to chase unless you can train the dog to be steady after the flush but that may be very difficult for a first time trainer of a pointing bred dog. The only time I ever wanted my dog to break point was when they were on a bird in really nasty stuff (blackberry brambles, thick brush, etc.) that I didn't want to venture into ,,,,but it still took some coaxing on my part since it's the dog's instinct to hold steady.
    He's NOT your buddy, buddy!

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    3,933

    Re: Pointers

    Here’s the little bugger…


  5. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,209

    Re: Pointers

    ^^^ ,,,,good lookin' pup! How old are they before they get the longer coat and feathers on the legs and tail, characteristic of a setter? Is he accustomed to gun shot (acceptance to loud noises) noises yet because that's something you can start on Day 1 of getting a bird dog puppy,,,,just have to make sure it's a progression.
    He's NOT your buddy, buddy!

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    3,933

    Re: Pointers

    Quote Originally Posted by mastercaster View Post
    ^^^ ,,,,good lookin' pup! How old are they before they get the longer coat and feathers on the legs and tail, characteristic of a setter? Is he accustomed to gun shot (acceptance to loud noises) noises yet because that's something you can start on Day 1 of getting a bird dog puppy,,,,just have to make sure it's a progression.
    His coat has changed drastically since we got him. His head started out that dark liver colour and his body spots were more grey. Now his body is the same colour his head was and his head is lightening up. The long coat is one of the reasons I went with a setter, for the cold weather up here in the late season. I’m going to get him a vest and get him started on some snow boots ASAP.

    We’re just sitting around that firepit and I’ve been firing a cap gun by him off and on.

    He definitely has a short attention span. His training sessions don’t last more than a few minutes. The breeder warned me not to be too heavy handed with him or he’d clam up. He’s definitely driven by food and learns easy. Positive reinforcement works better than losing patience. I’ve had a couple instances where he wasn’t picking up on the training so I changed to something he knew, gave him a treat and called it a day.

    I have a few frozen birds to get him going on, but I wanted to train him with a bumper before we move to birds. Is that a good plan? Or start dragging a chuckar around and getting him to look for it?

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,209

    Re: Pointers

    Teaching your dog to retrieve can/should be taught independently from teaching your pup bird hunting skills. They're two totally different skills that do not need to be combined until later in the pup's training. So, yes, you can do all your retrieving training by using a dummy/bumper first before adding a dead bird into the mix if you want.

    The first thing you want to do in the retrieving process is to teach your pup to hold a dummy, bumper, or paint roller. Google it,,,lots of info both written and on Youtube will explain how to do it. Just make sure there are no other distractions for the pup so do it in the house, garage, or on a training table. Get you pup to master the "Hold" before you move onto the next step.

    It would take a dozen paragraphs to go through the entire fetching/retrieving process so what I would suggest you do is to go on line to get the step by step process. It's there. There are some really good DVD sets available but they are on the pricey side, plus there's books on teaching a dog to retrieve, too, but you may as well try to find the information for free on the internet.

    You already know not to rush the process. Take your time ,,,,you have enough of it to get your pup ready enough at some point this fall to retrieve grouse, etc. You'll find that teaching your pup to retrieve is a great bonding experience for the both of you.
    He's NOT your buddy, buddy!

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    146

    Re: Pointers

    For your dog's first year on birds, I would focus on getting him out in a field and see how he does. Be patient as this will be learning by trial and error for the young pup. If he bumps a bird instead of being on a steady point, feel free to put the dog back in place and encourage him to stay put with the whoa command. Unless the pup is a natural retriever, in my opinion I would hold off on the retrieving training. Getting that dog out in the field and excited to be on birds and listening to you should be the primary focus in his first year.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    1,281

    Re: Pointers

    Quote Originally Posted by huntingfamily View Post
    Then these puppies are NOT DD's!
    You do realize that Deutsch Drahtharr is just the German language version of German Wirehair right? So they are all DDs or GWPs. Just get a Weimaranar and be done with it.
    If were not supposed to eat animals, how come theyre made out of meat?

    BHA, BCWF, CCFR, PETA, Lever Action Addict.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    225

    Re: Pointers

    Quote Originally Posted by Redthies View Post
    You do realize that Deutsch Drahtharr is just the German language version of German Wirehair right? So they are all DDs or GWPs. Just get a Weimaranar and be done with it….
    Seems like you don't know enough about DD vs GWP to have a conversation about this.
    To try to educate somebody that trained and tested DDs in Canada,US and Germany about what is a DD,is pretty "ballsy".
    By the way,most Weims in this country are not Hunting dogs any more.To sift through the shit that is produced,just to get a decent hunting dog in the Weims compared to what is produced as a standard within the DD world is not comparable.

    Anybody that sells GWPs as DDs is setting themselves up for lawsuit since the name. Deutsch Drahthaar,is a Trademark registered name under Vdd.e.V .
    Besides,he is starting out wrong to pump out pups by lying to the potential buyers of what the dogs are.

    Rainer

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