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Thread: Pointers

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    946

    Re: Pointers

    I've got a pudelpointer. They are an extremely impressive breed. I'd recommend them to anybody...great pets, don't shed, highest scoring NAVDHA breed. What more do you want?

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    2,147

    Re: Pointers

    Quote Originally Posted by mastercaster View Post
    Griffs, pudelpointers, Deutch Drahthaars, and German wire-hairs all fall under the versatile umbrella. They'll point all upland birds, retrieve equally well on land or water (especially if they've been force fetched), they're good on searches and they track really well. They can handle cold weather and water because of their double coat but all hunters I know who shoot waterfowl over the winter months will always put neoprene vests on them for added warmth. They're all great swimmers and love the water!

    As far as shedding goes it all barrels down to breeding. My griff barely sheds at all. She's never had any matted hair. The only maintenance I do with her is run a steel comb over her once every 4-5 weeks. Other owners, however, have griffs that mat a lot and they need to brush/comb them almost daily likely because they have softer coats and probably shampoo them frequently. My 4 1/2 year old griff has never been shampooed in her life. That being said, she has been hosed down a few hundred times. It's the same for pudelpointers and german wirehair pointers when it comes to their coat. It's definitely something to discuss with the breeder.

    DDs and GWPs are much more sharp than griffs and pudelpointers. Every small animal they go after is likely going to come back dead. Can't tell you how many young bunnies my dog has brought back that's wet and slobbery that I just release back to the forest/bush but it may have to do more with the training. All of these dogs are easy to train and behave well in the home but they need daily exercise (twice a day) otherwise they can get into mischief out of boredom. My dog has yet to ruin a single item in the house,,,,, no furniture, no clothing, no shoes, etc, from day one but I'm retired so getting her out to exercise and train has never been an issue. She gotten run of the house since she's been 6-7 months old.

    Shorthairs have even higher energy needs.

    Pudelpointers and griffs are great with kids. No toddler is safe around my griff,,,,they always get a face washing with her tongue and wet beard. lol I don't know about the other versatiles but griffs tend to prefer people over dogs when they see either when out and about,,,,at least mine does.

    Have never seen any of the wire-haired breeds not like water whereas I've seen a lot of the shorthairs like the English, German, weimaraners, and vizslas who don't (big time), especially when it's iced up on the edges.

    The setters that are bred to hunt, shorthairs and brittanys have a more stylish point, IMHO, but none of the dogs I've mentioned above should flush birds. They're meant to hold point.

    English and German shorthair pointers have a much different conformation than any of the wire-hairs or brittanys. They're MUCH deeper in the chest and because of that there's always a greater risk of bloating. That deep chest makes it difficult to fit with neoprene vests and that's if you can even get one that will go out into the extremes to hunt. If you do have a gamer you'd have to make a lot of modifications to the vest for a good fit, otherwise they're pretty much useless.

    In the end, it's tough to go wrong with any of the bird dogs mentioned,,,,,,retrievers included! After all, a dog that doesn't hunt is just a cat that barks!
    Thanks for the post!

    Ive been doing some more poking around and I actually know someone who’s involved in showing dogs. I knew they had dogs, amongst other things like reptiles and chickens, but didn’t know they showed their dogs. It turns out she has a griff and so does one of her friends and they’re going to breed them this heat or next. She said within a year she should have a litter. I’ve never met her dog, but the bonus is my wife has and my wife thinks she’s the most well behaved dog she’s ever met. My wife did t know she was a griff though. My wife hates my brothers griff because he’s an asshole and that’s why she wouldn’t even consider one. Pretty funny.

    Aside form that she said they run into red and whites at shows all the time and there is breeders out west, but the waiting lists are pretty long. She’s going to do a little bit more looking for me and get a few names.
    She died for you Dennis!

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    903

    Re: Pointers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bustercluck View Post
    Thanks for the post!

    Ive been doing some more poking around and I actually know someone who’s involved in showing dogs. I knew they had dogs, amongst other things like reptiles and chickens, but didn’t know they showed their dogs. It turns out she has a griff and so does one of her friends and they’re going to breed them this heat or next. She said within a year she should have a litter. I’ve never met her dog, but the bonus is my wife has and my wife thinks she’s the most well behaved dog she’s ever met. My wife did t know she was a griff though. My wife hates my brothers griff because he’s an asshole and that’s why she wouldn’t even consider one. Pretty funny.
    Hopefully they've bred dogs before because there's a whole lot more to it than just throwing a male and female of the same breed together and hoping for the best. There's lots to consider which is why when I was looking I wanted to make sure I got a pup from at least a second breeding. Because mine came from a third time breeding I knew pretty much exactly what size the offspring would be when they became adult dogs, the quality of their coat, their temperament, and their prey drive.

    You also want to know whether the parents will throw any unwanted issues like allergies, digestive problems, and if there has ever been a history of entropy (eye lid issues), tooth alignment, or skeletal (hips, elbows) problems.

    Good breeders will always give you a 30 months health warranty on the pup. You generally get a non-breeding contract with the pup which can be rescinded if you jump through a few hoops like attaining a certain score on a hunt test and getting health checks on the dog for hips, elbows, and eyes when the dog is at least two years old. I had no plans on breeding so these weren't issues for me.

    Definitely check for hunting titles of the parents if your plan is to hunt your dog. Good breeders will always go to the trouble to test their dogs. Btw, a lot of WPG breeders will only sell to hunting families which I think is great because that's ALWAYS been their intended use. I know when I was shopping and talking to perspective breeders the really good ones gave me the third degree concerning my plans for the dog. Two thumbs up for that,,,,,, those are responsible breeders!

    One thing to note if you're considering a WPG is lot of griffs these days are no longer considered medium size dogs which is what they were intended to be. I'm seeing monster griffs out there, especially out of the States where some of them must think bigger is better which it's not. Those dogs tend to tire a whole lot quicker in the field. Check to see that the parents conform to standard,,,,females (20-22"/ 45-55 lbs.) and males (22-24" 50-60/65 lbs.).

    Once again, definitely check out the other versatiles! There's a number of good breeds out there. The breeding program for DDs is top notch. Pudelpointers are great, as well.

    A pic from last week:

    Last edited by mastercaster; 09-27-2021 at 05:05 AM.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    Born in the 4-9
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    980

    Re: Pointers

    I have two Weimaraners and they are not fans of the cold. Vests are on when it gets below 5*. We had Setters when I was growing up. Those dogs are 100% nuts. I’d stay away. My neighbor has a GWP and Pudel Pointer. The PP is young, but super promising. He is out of Alberta. I’ll be hunting with them tomorrow in my bird spot where my Wiems flushed a ton of birds last week so I’ll be curious to see how they handle the same hunt. We just came back from a week of chasing birds on the Alberta side of Crows Nest and put on a ton of miles in steep rocky terrain so my two will get the day off.
    If we’re not supposed to eat animals, how come they’re made out of meat?

    BHA, BCWF, CCFR, PETA, Lever Action Addict.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    2,147

    Re: Pointers

    This thread is getting me excited
    She died for you Dennis!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    818

    Re: Pointers

    good in cold weather
    lower energy
    family pet
    Ease of training
    I’d like something a little more point and flush (pick one... these are usually mutually exclusive)

    Do you want a pet that hunts? or a serious hunting dog that is also good in the house?

    I have hunted over a friends pair of Griffons. They are reactive dogs that need direction. Some would call them 'soft'. The 8 yr old is a good hunter, somewhat moody. The 3 yr old is a goof. They both point well and retrieve reliably. Great noses, they do not miss much. Lovely temperaments in the house. But they are pigs... very messy. The long hair brings all kinds of dirt in the house and you always feel like you need to go wash your hands after petting or playing with them. He needs to keep on top of ear cleaning and dental issues as well as vulva infections... not sure if that is common to all female dogs or more prevalent in the longer haired breeds.

    I personally prefer hunting with a thinking dog that knows what to do and analyses each situation... more independent search. The relationship becomes more of a cooperation between hunters - each knowing their role. Rather than just obedience and reacting to stimulus. The Germans put 120 years into perfecting the ultimate hunting machine... just as they did with cars... the breeding program of the VDD is without equal. You can blindly grab a pup from any litter and know you are getting a dog that will hunt better than you can. If you consider one, be prepared to agree to at least 2 tests. These are serious dogs from serious breeders that require feedback and involvement from the owners.

    If you only hunt upland birds, lots of choices that make great pets - I like springers and brittanies.
    If you have to be persuaded, reminded pressured, lied to, incentivized, coerced, bullied, socially shamed, guilt-tripped, threatened, punished and criminalized ... If all of this is considered necessary to gain your compliance -- you can be absolutely certain that what is being promoted is not in your best interest - Ian Watson

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    764

    Re: Pointers

    You will probably never go wrong regardless of what breed you go with.If you spend the time and effort you will be rewarded I know Mastercaster s dog is great because he has put time and effort into the training regime. I have the best of both worlds my GSP is a dynamite upland dog (home schooled) but does exactly what i want and hates the rain.My lab is an ex field trials washout who is disciplined and great on the water and field regardless of weather. Do I spend time with both yes (too much according to the home minister) but I am always pleased at the end of any hunt.Oh and Brent did you really shoot those birds or did Sako get them

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    764

    Re: Pointers


  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    903

    Re: Pointers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Oh and Brent did you really shoot those birds or did Sako get them
    Haha. I know what Mike is referring to. On my last day of a 4 day grouse hunt I came upon a guy who was shooting at a bunch of grouse but I held back waiting for him to get back into his truck. He drove up to me and said he just shot 5 birds but there were a a few more in the covey that my dog might put me on to.

    I walked down to where he was and sure enough my griff put two up into a tree a ways off the road in thicker first growth forest. The tree was a ways down an embankment but easily close enough to shoot. These were birds I would never have shot at without a dog. In any event, I shot them and sent her in. She came back with a bird in what I thought was way too short a time. I sent her back in and she came up the bank with another. Hmmmm??

    I'm still thinking that she didn't get to the birds I shot. In the end I ended up with four birds up on the road on two shots. Sako obviously found birds that the other hunter had shot but was unable to recover. They're not the birds in the photo above. lol

    Here's five more from another day. It's been a great year for grouse. Many of the adults had two clutches based on the size of the coveys and the different sized birds with in them. Shows you what a dryer late spring and summer can do for the grouse population.


  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    200

    Re: Pointers

    Most of what is said about Versatile dogs so far are generalizations.
    Crazy Energy-refers to dogs that are not worked enough.
    sharpness-boils down to training and exposure,regardless of breed.PPs are not any less sharp than DDs.

    Bottomline,if you don't spend time with your dog or take him hunting once in a blue moon,you will never get a "superstar"

    Rainer

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