National Indigenous Day BCWF Reconciliation Dialogue

[Rob Chipman]

Back to the basics…..”work with FN” = “give up a little more to FN”….Every…..Single……Time. That’s the way it’s always been, is now, and will be until the political motivation based in the ability to steal tax dollars is removed.

BCWF isn't in the position to "give up a little more" or "refuse to give up a little more". I'm not saying your equation is wrong. I'm just pointing out that BCWF doesn't have any veto or negotiating power on what you're talking about. The best we can do is to try to influence events.

[BigSlapper]

Hell of a good job Rob ... hell of a good job!

[willyqbc]

Rob, even though we may not align on everything, it is clear that we have much more in common than we are at odds. I truly do respect what you are doing, and the fact that you are willing to have a truly OPEN dialogue. Its not often these days that I can express views like I did earlier without some red faced leftist pointing at me and screaming "racist!!!!", "colonizer!!!!". The idea that I should be a self flagellating apologist for the simple sin of being born a white male is not acceptable to me, nor is the idea that even though time has marched on we should make decisions at a governmental level based on laws/treaties etc originally created in the distant past. Times have changed, what is right and fair for ALL Canadians TODAY should take precedence over laws and treaties originally created when muskets, bow and arrow, and travel by horse and wagon were the norm.
If i truly felt the FN were wanting to "negotiate" for what would be for the best for ALL Canadians, FN included, I would be all for it......but thats not what I see. What I see is a very tiny percentage of our population that wants WAY more than any other citizen would ever be entitled to. In the past these bands, who truly had to live off the land, did NEED vast tracts of land to sustain their people. We all know this is no longer the case. anyone who thinks a FN who is awarded a vast tract of land, is going to suddenly shun the gas station, grocery store, walmart etc......is delusional. So.... the original INTENT of these treaties was to allow the FN enough RESOURCES to survive comfortably, along side the european settlers also having enough resources to survive comfortably. Why then, simply because generations have passed, should that INTENT be discarded in favour of "I want ALL the land we USED to need to survive comfortably".
The end game of the FN as I see it is to concentrate the resource wealth of this country down into their hands.....does 3% of the population holding 50% of the resources seem like its carrying out the original INTENT of the treaties? Doesn't seem like it to me....what would have happened 150 years ago if the FN would have said to the europeans...."sure, we'll sign a treaty...we get 50 buffalo and 100 salmon for every 1 buffalo and 10 salmon you can have from OUR land". Well i'll tell ya, like every other point in history, the stronger party would have wiped out the weaker and we'd not be in this position today.
The "I was here first" argument, DOES NOT HOLD WATER.....human history is just an unbroken lineage of one culture moving in and taking over another....all over the planet, and as far back as one cares to look.
I would fully support any solution that would support the ORIGINAL INTENT of these treaties....but what the FN of today wants....far surpasses that.

Respectfully
Chris

[wildcatter]

Rob, even though we may not align on everything, it is clear that we have much more in common than we are at odds. I truly do respect what you are doing, and the fact that you are willing to have a truly OPEN dialogue. Its not often these days that I can express views like I did earlier without some red faced leftist pointing at me and screaming "racist!!!!", "colonizer!!!!". The idea that I should be a self flagellating apologist for the simple sin of being born a white male is not acceptable to me, nor is the idea that even though time has marched on we should make decisions at a governmental level based on laws/treaties etc originally created in the distant past. Times have changed, what is right and fair for ALL Canadians TODAY should take precedence over laws and treaties originally created when muskets, bow and arrow, and travel by horse and wagon were the norm.
If i truly felt the FN were wanting to "negotiate" for what would be for the best for ALL Canadians, FN included, I would be all for it......but thats not what I see. What I see is a very tiny percentage of our population that wants WAY more than any other citizen would ever be entitled to. In the past these bands, who truly had to live off the land, did NEED vast tracts of land to sustain their people. We all know this is no longer the case. anyone who thinks a FN who is awarded a vast tract of land, is going to suddenly shun the gas station, grocery store, walmart etc......is delusional. So.... the original INTENT of these treaties was to allow the FN enough RESOURCES to survive comfortably, along side the european settlers also having enough resources to survive comfortably. Why then, simply because generations have passed, should that INTENT be discarded in favour of "I want ALL the land we USED to need to survive comfortably".
The end game of the FN as I see it is to concentrate the resource wealth of this country down into their hands.....does 3% of the population holding 50% of the resources seem like its carrying out the original INTENT of the treaties? Doesn't seem like it to me....what would have happened 150 years ago if the FN would have said to the europeans...."sure, we'll sign a treaty...we get 50 buffalo and 100 salmon for every 1 buffalo and 10 salmon you can have from OUR land". Well i'll tell ya, like every other point in history, the stronger party would have wiped out the weaker and we'd not be in this position today.
The "I was here first" argument, DOES NOT HOLD WATER.....human history is just an unbroken lineage of one culture moving in and taking over another....all over the planet, and as far back as on cares to look.
I would fully support any solution that would support the ORIGINAL INTENT of these treaties....but what the FN of today wants....far surpasses that.

Respectfully
Chris

"Times have changed, what is right and fair for ALL Canadians TODAY should take precedence over laws
and treaties originally created when muskets, bow and arrow, and travel by horse and wagon were the norm."

Very well said Chris!
A lot of us, I should say most of us, feel the same way.

[BULLNUTTS]

Some pretty deep stuff in this thread,almost need a lawyer to make a comment.
I have been fortunate enough to have grown up in times free enough to hunt n fish where ever you could get to with nobody saying you couldn't. It was freedom felt won by our forefathers whom won us our freedoms and rights for ALL on battlefields of the world. As youngster I served in old vet hospitals and care facilities serving drinks,snacks and books to veterans there.Grand tales of heroics and beloved comrades fallen, sacrificing their all for love of country. Now I'm just an old trout wanting to take a friend or maybe the young out for a fish and maybe put some meat on the table if lucky lol. To be honest, when hearing of lines in the sands, mine and yours,centuries old deals, pains and hurts,and talk of treasons and war......I try to be grateful and kind and be worthy of what is already in our hands. Grateful for a chance to be part of a country made of and by diversity of peoples regardless of creed,colour or beliefs -- Like it or not,accept it or not,We are Canadians. There's a pride in that 💘 worth defending.
The fish are biting and I'm late lol tight lines n good huntin folks

[180grainer]

Biggest thing for people to get their heads around, is that these negotiations are not being held between our respective Governments and the FN. They're being controlled and directed by the UN. Trudeau was right when he said Canada was going to be the first "Post Nation State". Our Governments act as an intermediary between the FN and the UN in the implementation of the various agendas laid out by the UN. It's that simple. We have unelected, bureaucratic, Communist Criminals at the UN controlling the dismantling of Canada. Who's controlled our response to COVID? The WHO. Who's the WHO. A subsidiary of the UN. What's Canada's action plan on Climate Change other than a regurgitation of what the UN wants. What did Whorgan just announce? An ambitious plan to enact 79 goals out lined and articulated in UNDRIP, a utopic UN view benefitting the FN.

[eric]

The times are changing, we can't get away from that fact.
What I would like to see, is a solution that comes from within BC, not some outside entity that really couldn't give a rats ass about what goes on in BC/Canada.

my .02 cents worth

[Shermanator]

So today they tore down the statue of Sir John A McDonald, another piece of Canadian history. In the crowd were of course FN who instigated the entire event as Sir John was a perpetrator of residential schools and just the basic downfall of all FN people across Canada. Another piece of OUR history, gone. Be it good or bad, it is history and its remembering history that keeps us honest folks on the straight and narrow. History tells us of all the people that died during our World Wars to give us the freedom we have to day, but as we can see that is also being taken from us. At what point do we start getting back what we all worked so hard for?? At what point can we stop giving and getting nothing in return other than protests, road blockades and basic civil unrest. The word "reconciliation" has become a joke, a gag gone bad, a catchall word for our stupid governments both present and past to use to try and appease those that really don't give a ferrets ass about what happens to OUR country. And it is our country, not FN's, it's all of ours. When Whorgon comes on the news and thanks the FN's for allowing him to be on THEIR land to give his speech, he only adds fuel to their fire against the rest of Canadians. I personally don't care who was here first, where we are now is where we are, move on, move forward and do the best you can do. I'd like to see where FN's would be today if us whitey's and immigrants of color hadn't worked the land, built business's and formed this country. I'm not saying forget what happened 150 years ago but for shits sakes, look ahead and work for a better future. Its the same with the dirtbags in nearly every downtown these days, all want handouts and no responsibilities, sounds kinda familiar doesn't it! Those of us that were afforded a normal upbringing were told "if you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all", boy, were they wrong! Do I have a solution to the FN's problem? Of course not, my solutions would make me racist and have Indianafobia or something. Hey, many of us grew up around and with natives, but also with Japanese and Chinese kids. We never had a issue with them personally back then but I can tell you that all this BS they are putting us through is going to make more problems than it is going to solve. How would they like it if we started cutting down their Totem poles??? They seem to enjoy tearing down or defacing our history so how about that? That's where its going to end up if our governments don't do something concrete to solve this, and tossing multi millions of dollars at them year after year ain't gonna work. Like the street person, their hands will always be out for more, and more to them is more money and more land, absolute crap. Kind of a nothing rant but after seeing another statue torn down it got my dander up, again, and at my age dander is even becoming scarce!! Here's a quote from a FN's I can respect, Chief Louie of the Osoyoos band who gave a amazing speech to FN's people, hit the nail right on the head:
"Mr. Louie first rose to national attention a decade ago when he was featured in a Globe and Mail column in which he brusquely told an Alberta conference on aboriginal economic development: "My first rule for success is, 'Show up on time.' My No. 2 rule for success is, 'Follow Rule No. 1.'"

His blunt message reverberated throughout First Nations and beyond. "Our ancestors worked for a living," he told the conference, "so should you."

[Greenthumbed]

Thanks to all that have posted on this thread to date. It has been very informative for me.
Rob, I appreciate your ability to break down your thoughts and points so that others like myself can understand where you are coming from. Your patience and dedication for engaging with others is a quality that not many have.
To all the others that have posted, I agree with a lot that is being said. As a white man, I’m fearing for myself and my children when I look at what reconciliation could mean for us and our rights to hunting, fishing and roaming.
Having said that, I think that this town hall meeting BCWF is hosting on June 21 is an important step in sorting out where we stand as a group. It is impossible know how to move forward if we don’t know where we are right now.
I’ll be at the meeting. I hope to see you all there.

[Bugle M In]

Too many posts on here for me and i am too busy at this time to read them all.
I will just say this.

With the recent buried children, i feel that any of those people still alive and dealing with the trauma need help...big time!
That FN on the streets of Kammy when asked to describe the situation when he was there was truly heart breaking.
He, and many like them need lots of help.
And not only those that attended and our emotionally/mentally damaged, but those that our in direct contact with them will also
need support, because it isn't easy to deal with folks that have been damaged.
Its hard all around for those families.
So, i am good with money being applied to give help.

I am not in support of filling pockets/wallets with money.
My wife deals with veterans.
Ans many get a cheque for whatever claims they have, and some use it to continue the cycle of drug use or whatever hole they
have fallen into.
The money is there to "get help", not get rich!

And, my concern is some want to use issues like this from the past to get more for the future.
Like one band leader vbringing up that they cant sell their fish commercially.
That is not reconciliation!
That is using the term to get more than one deserves by playing the sympathy card!
Planet is too small for some groups to get "special status".
This was a big mistake.

What should of happen was to give money to get them to operate in the same system.
To employ them in the same system.
Companies should have been forced to hire them back years ago, in such sectors as forestry and way more money for them to
deal with addiction and trauma.
Giving someone a new house who doesn't have a job was ludacris.
Who in the hell can maintain a house when they have no income to keep it up??
And how can you hold on to a job when you have addiction or emotional/mental issues due to mistreatment?

Traditioanl rights is fine, but by traditional means.
Use a gill net, and you need to follow the same conservation rules!

And lastly, how many times do i have to say sorry???
I get in a fight with a friend, and if i make up and apologize, we carry on.
I am not expected to say sorry for the rest of my life
every time i see that friend in the future.

There has to be an agreement to when is reconciliation done.
When is sorry over!