Crown Land Given To Now Be FN Land

[Bugle M In]

Spoke with somebody that dealt with FN Issues for many many years.
The BIG ISSUE was the "Lawyers".

Many many times, there were deals on the table, and all seemed well, AND THEN, on the 11th hour, the FN LAWYERS would
cancel the agreement/deal.

WHY??????

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Just keep billing more hours, it was a "cash cow" for the lawyers.
And, to be "a little fair" to government, these "broken deals" add up.
(Why do you think ICBC just made big changes.????? Simple, to reduce lawyer costs as that was the biggest issue and
ballooning costs)
So, i suppose they end up "not fighting" for us, and like some state, that it pretty much looks like the government is not here
to support the non FN into fair agreements.

The big problem is to figure out a way to "CAP" lawyers costs on issues (if that is even possible).
That for every deal on the table, there will only be so much money the government (US!) will pay for their lawyer costs.
The rest comes out of THEIR POCKETS.

Then, you spin it the other way and tie "them up in lawyers costs"!!
Until it gets to expensive for "them to cover their own lawyers cost"

Then we can have some proper resolutions again.
Right now, its the lawyers that are laughing their asses off to the bank.
And they dont care what they destroy in their path.

Ian Waddel was a lawyer, who was an NDP party member in the house that help start some of this BS in BC.
And you know what, he many times said at private parties that he ended up "losing out".
That in the end, his lawyers comrades that he knew walked away with tons of cash.
"His buddies" made all the money.
And we are all left with the damage now and in the future.

All because we never figured out a way to cap lawyers costs/billing on any of these issues along the way.
It wasn't the FN (i believe) that walked away at the 11th hour......it was the lawyers.

[wildcatter]

Spoke with somebody that dealt with FN Issues for many many years.
The BIG ISSUE was the "Lawyers".

Many many times, there were deals on the table, and all seemed well, AND THEN, on the 11th hour, the FN LAWYERS would
cancel the agreement/deal.

WHY??????

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Just keep billing more hours, it was a "cash cow" for the lawyers.
And, to be "a little fair" to government, these "broken deals" add up.
(Why do you think ICBC just made big changes.????? Simple, to reduce lawyer costs as that was the biggest issue and
ballooning costs)
So, i suppose they end up "not fighting" for us, and like some state, that it pretty much looks like the government is not here
to support the non FN into fair agreements.

The big problem is to figure out a way to "CAP" lawyers costs on issues (if that is even possible).
That for every deal on the table, there will only be so much money the government (US!) will pay for their lawyer costs.
The rest comes out of THEIR POCKETS.

Then, you spin it the other way and tie "them up in lawyers costs"!!
Until it gets to expensive for "them to cover their own lawyers cost"

Then we can have some proper resolutions again.
Right now, its the lawyers that are laughing their asses off to the bank.
And they dont care what they destroy in their path.

Ian Waddel was a lawyer, who was an NDP party member in the house that help start some of this BS in BC.
And you know what, he many times said at private parties that he ended up "losing out".
That in the end, his lawyers comrades that he knew walked away with tons of cash.
"His buddies" made all the money.
And we are all left with the damage now and in the future.

All because we never figured out a way to cap lawyers costs/billing on any of these issues along the way.
It wasn't the FN (i believe) that walked away at the 11th hour......it was the lawyers.

You can bet the lawyers will milk it all its worth.
The FN is using money to pay the lawyers they get from the government and we are paying for it.
The whole thing is a crooked system.

[Rob Chipman]

When you said suck it up, you basically resigned to, "it's out of our hand, nothing we can do, just take it up the you know where".

Wrong. By "suck it up" I mean "When you get frustrated and want to say something racist in public that doesn't reflect well on hunters, can be screenshot and used as ammunition by anti-hunters *suck it up and bite your tongue*.

I get it about the Royal Proclamation and that the natives can and will take full advantage of it.

Good. So now you understand that Indigenous title isn't something made up by First Nations but a function of the Canadian legal system. You're starting to understand why it's not a clear cut "they're" taking advantage of "us" and more "we have rules we follow whether we like them or not".

As for my name, why do you have a problem with me not using my real name? - most on here dont.
If you are worried something being used against you, well you can change that.

I don't care what name you use, but since I use my real name and am connected to BCWF I'm not going to say stupid things and then say "Hey, I don't pussyfoot around - what's wrong with you? Why won't you say dumb and provocative things anonymously"

"Newsflash: the government is generally not on the side of hunter angler conservationists. They haven't been for a long, long time"
Perhaps not as much as we would like, but there are certain channels open to us dealing with huntinf/fishing related issues.

Do tell what those channels are. I spend plenty of time engaging with government, am not happy with the results and will happily make use of any pointers you want to share to make me more effective.

Whereas, I have a strong feeling we will not be able to deal with the natives the same way.

Thats's awesome. You have a feeling that dealing with more than 200 Indigenous groups (be they governments or other organizations) won't be the same as dealing with government? You might be right. You might be wrong. I said it before: I don't predict the future so that I can sit around in the present and complain. I try to indentify the problems and then influence the outcomes so that I have less to bitch about. I could use your help. DOn't make it harder by saying stuff with your outside voice that you should be saying with your inside voice.

And yes I don't like it, ask any hunter and probably get the same answer 99% of the time.
Hunting being not essential is for travel restrictions for the duration of Covid measures, till statistics improve.
The Ministry have been making changes to hunting regulations time to time, that is not unusual.
Hunting as a whole would not be cancelled by the goverment, but I can see that happening if natives own all the land.

Grizzly hunt cancelled on the basis of society's values, science sideline.

Government looking at changing trapping regs because of a social media dust up in Victoria, ignoring science.

Hunting deed essential, then bureaucrats deciding that travel to hunt means it's non-essential.

Talk of municipalities calling for a moratorium on wolf hunting and the government certainly paying attention to a campaign to stop "trophy hunting of predators"....and elk and sheep.


Meanwhile, multiple Indigenous groups are actually promoting and doing predator management and making lots of noises the actually support hunting.


You're free to speculate about what might happen in the future, and when your vision is grim enough you're free to comapina about the terrible future you've dreamed up. Fly at 'er.

But if you're going to express your frustration in public in a way that hurts other hunters who actually have to work with First Nations to try to maintain hunting and angling and access to the land in BC, do me a favour, will you? Suck it up and bite your tongue. It's not a big ask.

[eric]

Rob Chipman, I am sure that I am not the only individual who appreciates the fight you are enduring on behalf of all hunters.
It must be very frustrating dealing with Governments who only want the vote to keep them in power, and to hell with what science has to say.

I say well done, and keep up the fight.
The road ahead is going to be a rough ride..

[Rob Chipman]

Thanks, and to be clear - government is tough. Wildcatter isn't hard to endure and I'm not fighting him. He's frustrated with a lot of the same stuff as me and a bunch of us. What hunter or angler isn't? I think he just hasn't seen it clearly yet and he's getting frustrated. It's actually great that he enfaces because we all get to work this shit through and figure out the best way to raise to the challenge.

[Bugle M In]

Yes, we are frustrated.
And its good that someone like you Rob "do understand" the FN side of the argument and agreements that are coming from it.

No way to find proper solutions if one can "not confront" the "actual issues".

We all have to understand the "rules that are at play", whether we like them or not.
In the end, if the outcome does go downhill for us non FN, then at that time us that arent happy can think of alternative ways
to address issues that "arent working" for both groups.
That alternative isnt as pleasant for sure, but at some point, taking a page out of the FN rule book at one point in their crusade
may all be what is left for us to do in the end to be heard.

I agree with many here, that our government seems more inclined to listen to FN these days and think less of the rest of us.
Hopefully the solutions agreement work in the end for both groups.
If not, then we have to decide how we are going to play ball.

Example, if things like the pacific salmon issues arent addressed properly, and only the FN are given any benefit, then convoys
of protest and hay bales down rivers might in the end be the only game left in town.
I hope for everyone's sake the government "does consider what could happen" if they get this wrong and dont keep a fair balance
for all.
Who cares what the UN has to say, they dont live here, their families dont live here.

We, as outdoorsman know what is at stake.
Unfortunately most city folks that make up the provinces population have no clue whats going on or care to even want to
know.
Its only when a sign goes up or they are asked to open up their wallets that they will start to figure out how manipulated they
have become.

Right now we are the greatest minority in the province and of least concern.
Thats why it hurts more.

[wildcatter]

Regardless of the outcome of this, it's not going to be good for us non natives.
And the lawyers, who are to benefit enormously, will make it even worse.

[Rob Chipman]

You're correct about the lawyers. It's a very steady gravy train.

[Arctic Lake]

Any lawyers on here ? You can see how legal bills add up if you have needed a lawyer’s services . Everything is calculated
Photocopies , Telephone calls, Travel Time etc....
Arctic Lake