Crown Land Given To Now Be FN Land

[Rob Chipman]

Why do FN need to work with us? They do what they want and every time they go to court they get more rights. Meanwhile tax payers paid for the lawyers educations and then the subsequent court costs lol

A lot of Indigenous people will answer that by saying a) they don't have capacity to do everything themselves and b) they'll point out that government isn't exactly their friend. (Adriaticum isn't crazy with a lot of his explanations. In fact, if you test what he's saying you'll see lots of it is spot on).

[.330 Dakota]

The FN dont follow the laws, they do what they want where and when they want. When the laws become ridiculous, we wont follow them either. I wonder now why we buy hunting licenses, why we bother with firearms licenses,,its the majority of citizens being ruled by a stupid minority in Govt. Glad Im not a young guy,,dont wanna deal with this BS for another 40 years,,seems like the morons of this world are taking over, and Im not just referring to this issue

[BimmerBob]

Is there a list of ceded and unceded land in BC? Or, is it all considered unceded by the Indians and therefore the courts?

[Arctic Lake]

From a quick search apparently 95% of land in BC is unceeded . I also found this http://www.bctreaty.ca/map
Arctic Lake

Is there a list of ceded and unceded land in BC? Or, is it all considered unceded by the Indians and therefore the courts?

[BimmerBob]

From a quick search apparently 95% of land in BC is unceeded . I also found this http://www.bctreaty.ca/map
Arctic Lake

So... since the land we hunt on is unceded why would we need to have a BC Hunting license or species tags to hunt on it? Could we not just go at it like the indians do and hunt and then go to court and ask them to make up their minds? Are we going by BC Government law or indian law on unceded territory?

[Arctic Lake]

You know that’s a good question and I think this is what needs clarification and ultimately is going to be decided . I think It applies to resource extraction as well .
Arctic Lake

So... since the land we hunt on is unceded why would we need to have a BC Hunting license or species tags to hunt on it? Could we not just go at it like the indians do and hunt and then go to court and ask them to make up their minds? Are we going by BC Government law or indian law on unceded territory?

[Rob Chipman]

So... since the land we hunt on is unceded why would we need to have a BC Hunting license or species tags to hunt on it? Could we not just go at it like the indians do and hunt and then go to court and ask them to make up their minds? Are we going by BC Government law or indian law on unceded territory?

This is off the top of my head, so forgive any errors, but....

There are a lot of treaties on Vancouver Island. These are referred to as the Douglas Treaties or "historical" treaties. They aren't really solid as there is an argument that the FNs involved did not give full and informed consent. It's unclear whether those lands are actually ceded or not (and it's likely "not").

There is Treaty 8, in the northeast of the province (as well as Alberta, Saskatchewan and part of the Northwest Territories). It is said by many that Treaty 8 lands are ceded, but I don't know if that means any sort of full and final settlement.

The Nisga'a Final Agreement was the first modern treaty signed in BC. For what it's worth the Nisga'a contested the claim of Crown ownership as early as 1887. Do the math: they were fighting with Victoria over their lands for over 100 years.

The BC Treaty Commission has been trying to complete more modern treaties, but you know what "government is trying" means. In this case it means there are 7 modern treaties being implemented - the Tsawassen Nation treaty, the Tla'amin Nation and 5 May-Nulth Nations.

My understanding of things is that when the BC Treaty Commission stared the idea was that FNs might get 2%-5% of their traditional territories. The Tsilhqot'in said "Thanks, but no thanks" and decided to go to court, where they got 20% of their traditional territory. That kind of hurt the prospects for the BC Treaty Commission. FWIW, the Tsilhqot'in now control who hunts what in Tsilhqot'in Nation Declared Title Lands, and they also prohibit access through that territory for anyone wanting to hunt. This access restriction is known, understood and accepted but the Province. The Province says they're trying to negotiate access through TNDTL, but they also say "Don't hold your breath".

The Tsilhqot'in, or at least some Tsilhqot'in say "We apply our law to all of our traditional territory because although we only have 20% of it back as of now, we're going to get the other 80%, so we may as well just apply the law everywhere".

So, to your question: why do you need a BC hunting license or tags to hunt on unceded land? Simple. Where the First Nation involved hasn't gained control of the land it's effectively Crown land because the Crown claims to own it and so the Crown imposes it's laws on us.

Do you need a BC hunting license to hunt Tsilhqot'in Nation Declared Title Land? If the TNG gave you permission I think the answer is no, you don't need a BC hunting license or tag. You might be in trouble if you're in possession of wildlife without observing BC law once you're out of TNDTL, but it's probably a moot point - The Tsilhqot'in aren't letting many non-Indigenous hunters hunt their title lands as far as I know.

What will happen in the future? It seems clear to me that there will be a Canadian federal government involve in hunting and angling, a BC provincial government involved in hunting and angling, and multiple Indigenous governments involved in hunting and angling. Non-Indigenous hunters and anglers are going to need Indigenous government permissions to hunt or fish, and those permissions may or may not be available. If they are available they will likely all have differing requirements.

The future is coming. The province is supposed to represent non-Indigenous British Columbians in any negotiations with Indigenous groups. If you're confident that the province will do a good job of that, excellent. Rest easy.

If you're not? Start making concerted efforts to ensure that your elected reps do what you want them to. Right now those reps don't even know who most of you are, let alone what you want and why they should get it for you. Among other things I'm trying to get a network of people together who will regularly meet with MLAs and MPs and tell those guys the same message, repeatedly, and make sure that our elected reps understand that any reconciliation that does not take our concerns into account simply cannot last.

But....if people don't get that message to MLAs an MPS and there are only a few of us telling the story, guess what? The MLAs and MPS will blow off those of us trying to influence them.

[Ride Red]

Thanks Rob.

[BimmerBob]

Yes, thanks Rob for taking the time to share your thoughts and some of the history with us.

[RugDoctor]

There will be violence. Ceded.....unceded......no such thing as either because it won’t matter a shit if they cede the land or not when they come for it with force and are met with force. Government will loose their control over both sides and it will get ugly. Both sides fighting each other, and both sides fighting the government.

we need to stop seeing it as “the government” and see it for what it is....a group of politicians who should be held responsible for their folly. “The government” is a veil that politicians hide behind. They are men and women in the employ of the people and should be personally accountable for their misdeeds. Misdeeds....not mistakes. They make very few mistakes but are responsible for all of the problems we face....the men and women who call themselves government rather than admitting that they are individuals with jobs and responsibilities.

they alone are responsible for the Indian industry, and they alone profit from it. We pay....indians continue to suffer the indignities inflicted upon the so the politicians, lawyers, and judges can profit.